W211 E55 runs rough 1400 -1800rpm
12-26-2016, 05:56 AM
#1
W211 E55 runs rough 1400 -1800rpm
Hi all,
I am hoping that someone may be familiar with some problems I am experiencing. I have searched the forums for the last two years and even though it has been helpful, I haven't found the exact same issues and I have. I have tried to be comprehensive so, it's a long read, sorry.
I have had a 2003 E55 for a few years now and for the last few months have been trying to fix a problem that started to appear about 2 years ago. At this stage the car had 96,000 kms ( less than 60,000 miles). The issue started with slight rough running when under light acceleration when passing through about 1400 rpm to 1800rpm. The idle was fine and under harder acceleration it wasn't noticeable. It will happen in any gear when under load at the same rpm range. It is also not running perfectly smooth at other rpm/load combinations but, it is hard to document as it's not consistent enough when it occurs to be sure.
I didn't try fixing the problem immediately as I was getting ready to do the pulley, headers, 82mm throttle body, EC tune, injectors, colder plugs, etc. After fitting all mods, and loading the tune we found the the problem was still there at the same rpm and same conditions. I thought we had a good chance of swapping the offending part out while doing these mods but, not so lucky.
Our mechanic did a smoke test and all was ok, no evidence of a vacuum leak.
We did get a fault code P1058. We couldn't find the exact description for this code and we had a suggestion to check the fuel pumps. With this suggestion, we changed the fuel pump and sender filter units which was good as there was the familiar leak issue but, after taking it for a run, the problem was still there, no difference. We then changed the plug leads, all intake gaskets, MAP sensor, fuel rail damper, and pre-cat 02 sensors. Still no improvement.
It was suggested to take the car to another mechanic who specialised in European cars and after looking at it and driving the car, they suggest a transmission service / transmission fluid change including changing torque converter fluid. I mentioned the conductor plate and they thought it was worth changing too and, they are doing all this in a couple of weeks. The transmission had the major service that was due at 75,000kms at 90,000 kms when I purchased the car. The problem started at 96,000kms and the car now has 123,000 kms. I must admit that recently, the transmission is not smooth on downshifts from 4th to 3rd and also 3rd to 2nd when done manually and when putting into drive or reverse feels a bit clunky. This is relatively a new development and I dismissed it as it was reminiscent of the feeling when a vacuum line popped off after a dealer service a few years back. I was stuck with the thinking that the problem is engine based and this was affecting the transmission in the same way when the vacuum line was disconnected. Now it may end up being the other way around, the transmission being the core of the problem affecting the engine running.
The new mechanic tells me that if the transmission senses an issue, it can send commands to the ECU which will affect power development and smoothness of running.
Another symptom is, if held in first gear and driven with very slowly raising the rpm, the engine gets to over 3000rpm then dies for a split second and comes back on just as quickly. This is repeatable every time.
My question is, if it is the transmission causing this roughness, should it be picked up by the TCU and show a code? The mechanic used Star and all it showed was that there is a record of 'unmetered air'. They weren't confident that this was current and said they searched and couldn't detect any leak. The P1058 that the previous mechanic found was no longer appearing and no other codes were found. I have used a basic obd2 reader, Dash Command, and it isn't showing any codes. I have only had a CEL once and this was triggered by an O2 sensor reading and this disappeared after keying off and back on or I cleared it with Dash Command, I can't recall now. It has not returned after driving 000's of kms.
Has anyone had any experience with symptoms I have described above, coming from the transmission or the TCU? Could not changing the torque converter fluid when the MB dealer did the major service be a possible transmission problem contributor? Do symptoms like I have, with no transmission code being shown, still be caused by the conductor plate ? If transmission fluid wicked into the TCU can it cause these types of symptoms? Apart from transmission, could it still be an engine based fault?
Would anyone have any thoughts or suggestions with what they may think this problem may be and how to resolve it?
Thanks in advance,
Mark
I am hoping that someone may be familiar with some problems I am experiencing. I have searched the forums for the last two years and even though it has been helpful, I haven't found the exact same issues and I have. I have tried to be comprehensive so, it's a long read, sorry.
I have had a 2003 E55 for a few years now and for the last few months have been trying to fix a problem that started to appear about 2 years ago. At this stage the car had 96,000 kms ( less than 60,000 miles). The issue started with slight rough running when under light acceleration when passing through about 1400 rpm to 1800rpm. The idle was fine and under harder acceleration it wasn't noticeable. It will happen in any gear when under load at the same rpm range. It is also not running perfectly smooth at other rpm/load combinations but, it is hard to document as it's not consistent enough when it occurs to be sure.
I didn't try fixing the problem immediately as I was getting ready to do the pulley, headers, 82mm throttle body, EC tune, injectors, colder plugs, etc. After fitting all mods, and loading the tune we found the the problem was still there at the same rpm and same conditions. I thought we had a good chance of swapping the offending part out while doing these mods but, not so lucky.
Our mechanic did a smoke test and all was ok, no evidence of a vacuum leak.
We did get a fault code P1058. We couldn't find the exact description for this code and we had a suggestion to check the fuel pumps. With this suggestion, we changed the fuel pump and sender filter units which was good as there was the familiar leak issue but, after taking it for a run, the problem was still there, no difference. We then changed the plug leads, all intake gaskets, MAP sensor, fuel rail damper, and pre-cat 02 sensors. Still no improvement.
It was suggested to take the car to another mechanic who specialised in European cars and after looking at it and driving the car, they suggest a transmission service / transmission fluid change including changing torque converter fluid. I mentioned the conductor plate and they thought it was worth changing too and, they are doing all this in a couple of weeks. The transmission had the major service that was due at 75,000kms at 90,000 kms when I purchased the car. The problem started at 96,000kms and the car now has 123,000 kms. I must admit that recently, the transmission is not smooth on downshifts from 4th to 3rd and also 3rd to 2nd when done manually and when putting into drive or reverse feels a bit clunky. This is relatively a new development and I dismissed it as it was reminiscent of the feeling when a vacuum line popped off after a dealer service a few years back. I was stuck with the thinking that the problem is engine based and this was affecting the transmission in the same way when the vacuum line was disconnected. Now it may end up being the other way around, the transmission being the core of the problem affecting the engine running.
The new mechanic tells me that if the transmission senses an issue, it can send commands to the ECU which will affect power development and smoothness of running.
Another symptom is, if held in first gear and driven with very slowly raising the rpm, the engine gets to over 3000rpm then dies for a split second and comes back on just as quickly. This is repeatable every time.
My question is, if it is the transmission causing this roughness, should it be picked up by the TCU and show a code? The mechanic used Star and all it showed was that there is a record of 'unmetered air'. They weren't confident that this was current and said they searched and couldn't detect any leak. The P1058 that the previous mechanic found was no longer appearing and no other codes were found. I have used a basic obd2 reader, Dash Command, and it isn't showing any codes. I have only had a CEL once and this was triggered by an O2 sensor reading and this disappeared after keying off and back on or I cleared it with Dash Command, I can't recall now. It has not returned after driving 000's of kms.
Has anyone had any experience with symptoms I have described above, coming from the transmission or the TCU? Could not changing the torque converter fluid when the MB dealer did the major service be a possible transmission problem contributor? Do symptoms like I have, with no transmission code being shown, still be caused by the conductor plate ? If transmission fluid wicked into the TCU can it cause these types of symptoms? Apart from transmission, could it still be an engine based fault?
Would anyone have any thoughts or suggestions with what they may think this problem may be and how to resolve it?
Thanks in advance,
Mark
12-26-2016, 11:09 AM
#2
Do a glycol test.
check engine mounts.
check purge valve hose near back of left cylinder head for the leak code.
you can't drain the torque converter on a lot of these cars as they don't have drain plugs. It's nothing your dealer did unless they put in the wrong fluid which is unlikely.
check engine mounts.
check purge valve hose near back of left cylinder head for the leak code.
you can't drain the torque converter on a lot of these cars as they don't have drain plugs. It's nothing your dealer did unless they put in the wrong fluid which is unlikely.
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MarkoE55 (12-26-2016)
12-26-2016, 12:34 PM
#3
Do a glycol test.
check engine mounts.
check purge valve hose near back of left cylinder head for the leak code.
you can't drain the torque converter on a lot of these cars as they don't have drain plugs. It's nothing your dealer did unless they put in the wrong fluid which is unlikely.
check engine mounts.
check purge valve hose near back of left cylinder head for the leak code.
you can't drain the torque converter on a lot of these cars as they don't have drain plugs. It's nothing your dealer did unless they put in the wrong fluid which is unlikely.
Do this first suggestion before wasting anymore money. I'm willing to bet it's 90% likely to be glycol contamination. And please do it at a dealer or somewhere that has done the test before and knows what they are doing.
That surge you get when accelerating very slowly while holding first gear happens to every E55 I've tried it on so don't go chasing that it's just some weird factory program thing that does it.
The following users liked this post:
MarkoE55 (12-26-2016)
12-26-2016, 02:56 PM
#4
Do a glycol test.
check engine mounts.
check purge valve hose near back of left cylinder head for the leak code.
you can't drain the torque converter on a lot of these cars as they don't have drain plugs. It's nothing your dealer did unless they put in the wrong fluid which is unlikely.
check engine mounts.
check purge valve hose near back of left cylinder head for the leak code.
you can't drain the torque converter on a lot of these cars as they don't have drain plugs. It's nothing your dealer did unless they put in the wrong fluid which is unlikely.
The engine mounts were changed at the 90,000 service so, not highly likely but I will still have them looked at when its in for the glycol test.
Regarding the purge valve hose, does this connect between the valve cover and the supercharger intake manifold ? If yes, which end is the likely culprit ?
Cheers
12-26-2016, 03:07 PM
#5
+1
Do this first suggestion before wasting anymore money. I'm willing to bet it's 90% likely to be glycol contamination. And please do it at a dealer or somewhere that has done the test before and knows what they are doing.
That surge you get when accelerating very slowly while holding first gear happens to every E55 I've tried it on so don't go chasing that it's just some weird factory program thing that does it.
Do this first suggestion before wasting anymore money. I'm willing to bet it's 90% likely to be glycol contamination. And please do it at a dealer or somewhere that has done the test before and knows what they are doing.
That surge you get when accelerating very slowly while holding first gear happens to every E55 I've tried it on so don't go chasing that it's just some weird factory program thing that does it.
The surge that you have experienced, is it like the engine dies for a moment then comes back to life ? Mine almost feels like you've hit the brakes for a instant. I thought that it may be worth mentioning in my original post as it may not have been normal and may have helped in the diagnosis. I'll happily live with this if its normal as it doesn't show up in normal or hard driving.
Cheers
12-26-2016, 03:28 PM
#6
Hi Rocman8, thanks for your reply, I'll give the suggestions a go.
The surge that you have experienced, is it like the engine dies for a moment then comes back to life ? Mine almost feels like you've hit the brakes for a instant. I thought that it may be worth mentioning in my original post as it may not have been normal and may have helped in the diagnosis. I'll happily live with this if its normal as it doesn't show up in normal or hard driving.
Cheers
The surge that you have experienced, is it like the engine dies for a moment then comes back to life ? Mine almost feels like you've hit the brakes for a instant. I thought that it may be worth mentioning in my original post as it may not have been normal and may have helped in the diagnosis. I'll happily live with this if its normal as it doesn't show up in normal or hard driving.
Cheers
01-01-2017, 08:49 PM
#7
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2002 CLK 55 AMG cabriolet Eurocharged
Sounds like a coked up bypass valve actuator.
The transmission has only a few faults that can occur. Inspecting the conductor plate interface connection for leaks is a start.
Cold and warm transmission reset procedures can be performed to rule any changes in the culprit.
Best of luck, Gator
The transmission has only a few faults that can occur. Inspecting the conductor plate interface connection for leaks is a start.
Cold and warm transmission reset procedures can be performed to rule any changes in the culprit.
Best of luck, Gator
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01-01-2017, 10:33 PM
#8
Super Member
with an 03 E55 you should check which radiator you have. There are 2 different ones and the early builds had issues with the coolant dumping into the tranny fluid and ruining the transmission. Search for the thread that tells you how to identify which radiator is which. Even if this isn't your problem, you should still replace the radiator as a preventative measure. This problem happened with my 03 E55 and required transmission replacement.
01-01-2017, 10:39 PM
#9
with an 03 E55 you should check which radiator you have. There are 2 different ones and the early builds had issues with the coolant dumping into the tranny fluid and ruining the transmission. Search for the thread that tells you how to identify which radiator is which. Even if this isn't your problem, you should still replace the radiator as a preventative measure. This problem happened with my 03 E55 and required transmission replacement.
01-01-2017, 10:46 PM
#10
Super Member
If antifreeze has already made it to the fibers of the clutches you're already screwed
01-01-2017, 11:15 PM
#11
01-02-2017, 04:11 AM
#12
Thanks for all the help guys, really appreciate it! I have checked which radiator I've have and it is the early Valeo brand that has a history of leaking the coolant into the transmission fluid. I am looking at getting the glycol test done asap but, this time of year most places are closed and only reopening for business this coming week and next week. I'll report back with the results when it's done.
I have purchased a B&M transmission cooler that I will fit regardless of it being a leak issue or not, it's insurance for the future!
If it turns out to be glycol in the fluid I think I will buy the EC toughened transmission even though I'm in Australia and won't be able to send my transmission back economically to get the core charge refunded. I would think that getting a box built to that level in Australia would cost even more so it's probably the best solution.
I have purchased a B&M transmission cooler that I will fit regardless of it being a leak issue or not, it's insurance for the future!
If it turns out to be glycol in the fluid I think I will buy the EC toughened transmission even though I'm in Australia and won't be able to send my transmission back economically to get the core charge refunded. I would think that getting a box built to that level in Australia would cost even more so it's probably the best solution.
01-03-2017, 04:30 AM
#13
Minor update. While waiting for a reply to a glycol test enquiry I decided to look at the transmission fluid out of curiosity. I bought some narrow plastic tubing and pushed it down the transmission 'dip stick' tube and took a sample of the fluid. Instead of being like a strawberry milkshake it is quite brown and has sort of a burnt smell. Actually, the smell reminds me a bit of an old car's overheated radiator smell. I have included a photo and hope it can be seen. You can also see the colour of the fluid when dripped onto some paper towel.
[img]webkit-fake-url://bc35e319-d5e1-497b-9f24-f841f053496a/imagejpeg[/img]
[img]webkit-fake-url://bc35e319-d5e1-497b-9f24-f841f053496a/imagejpeg[/img]
01-05-2017, 04:01 PM
#14
Senior Member
Minor update. While waiting for a reply to a glycol test enquiry I decided to look at the transmission fluid out of curiosity. I bought some narrow plastic tubing and pushed it down the transmission 'dip stick' tube and took a sample of the fluid. Instead of being like a strawberry milkshake it is quite brown and has sort of a burnt smell. Actually, the smell reminds me a bit of an old car's overheated radiator smell. I have included a photo and hope it can be seen. You can also see the colour of the fluid when dripped onto some paper towel.
[img]webkit-fake-url://bc35e319-d5e1-497b-9f24-f841f053496a/imagejpeg[/img]
[img]webkit-fake-url://bc35e319-d5e1-497b-9f24-f841f053496a/imagejpeg[/img]
I'd work on flush refill on both systems once the radiator is replaced.
01-05-2017, 04:20 PM
#15
Super Member
if the barrier is broken then your transmission and converter are likely done. It might work fine for awhile by doing a flush, but once the fibers are contaminated with coolant the lifespan is greatly reduced. You should upgrade to the new version radiator either way to prevent the coolant problem if it turns out there isn't a leak yet. The new version has no history of failure so the B&M external cooler is really unnecessary.
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