2000 E55 vs. M5
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2000 E55 vs. M5
anybody care to explain why the resale value of the E55 is so much lower(both $ and also %) than the M5, especially given the problems that were well known engine problems. i've seen a few M5s out there but the prices are in the hi $40's/low $50k's vs. hi $30's/low $40k.
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E was replaced by new model,M5 was not.
Wait till the E60 M5 shows up and the current M will drop like a brick
Wait till the E60 M5 shows up and the current M will drop like a brick
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Well only having a 2000 for about 3 days, I may be a litte off when it comes to E55 and how much I LOVE it. But I just got back from visting a friend who has a M5 and he loved the E55, whised he had an auto, just stomp and go. I have had a lot of time behind the wheel of the M5 and owned 2 M3's. The diff between the E and the M is so small if you can drive either car at the limit you have a lot to talk about.
As for resale value 3 US models in 5yr's only one M5 soon to be 2. and if the new M destroys the old one in performance you will see the prices fall as well. When looking for my car I would say 1/2 or more of the people selling were buying new E's.
As for resale value 3 US models in 5yr's only one M5 soon to be 2. and if the new M destroys the old one in performance you will see the prices fall as well. When looking for my car I would say 1/2 or more of the people selling were buying new E's.
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E55 AMG
Originally posted by E55 KEV
Mercedes could barely sell 500 W210 E55's per year and the M5 sold about 2500 each year at a premium.
Mercedes could barely sell 500 W210 E55's per year and the M5 sold about 2500 each year at a premium.
However, the point about the premium on the M5 is a factor. Back when the W210 E55 was one of the "it" cars to have, MB had a "no mark up" policy, while BMW did not. Hence the M5 often sold for 10K more than MSRP. Perhaps that difference is also reflected in the used car prices today.
Finally, the W211 in general and the W211 E55 are big hits. The general public sees the W211 as an improvement over the W210. Not so for the BMW E60 5 series. Many still feel that the E39 was better, the E60's styling is a big turn off for a lot of BMW fans, and the new M5 has not been released yet.
Last edited by mikE55; Apr 5, 2004 at 05:51 PM.
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Originally posted by mikE55
Many still feel that the E39 was better, the E60's styling is a big turn off for a lot of BMW fans, and the new M5 has not been released yet.
Many still feel that the E39 was better, the E60's styling is a big turn off for a lot of BMW fans, and the new M5 has not been released yet.
Originally posted by mikE55 MB now touts the W210 E55 as its best selling AMG car of all time, so I think the 500 number was just marketing BS.
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Originally posted by E55 KEV
Also, the W210 may have been the most successful AMG platform but that is for worldwide sales and that has no reflectiion on the measley hard to sell 500 units for the U.S. This discussion is about US sales volume and adding stats about worldwide sales is moot. There are only abut 2200 W210 E55 in the entire US for model years 1999-2002 and that amount equals yearly sales of the M5.
Also, the W210 may have been the most successful AMG platform but that is for worldwide sales and that has no reflectiion on the measley hard to sell 500 units for the U.S. This discussion is about US sales volume and adding stats about worldwide sales is moot. There are only abut 2200 W210 E55 in the entire US for model years 1999-2002 and that amount equals yearly sales of the M5.
Regardless of the actual numbers sold, my point was the low volume was not a true reflection of its demand. Its production was limited as it was the last AMG car to be built entirely at the AMG factory. The M5 was built on normal BMW factory lines, as are the modern AMG cars of today. Had the W210 E55 been produced in higher numbers, MB would have had little trouble selling them when the car was in its prime.
Last edited by mikE55; Apr 6, 2004 at 02:09 PM.
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Originally posted by mikE55
Where do you get your data from? I've seen reports that have stated around 1500 E55 units sold in the US for a single year.
Where do you get your data from? I've seen reports that have stated around 1500 E55 units sold in the US for a single year.
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The best year was 2001 and they sold 2500 E55's worldwide. I doubt that 1500 come to the US in 2001 and then sales dropped off to 500 in 2002. If MBUSA sold 1500 units in 2001 they would have ordered a similar amount for 2002.
From AMG Media:
"Stuttgart/Affalterbach, Feb 18, 2002
DaimlerChrysler subsidiary Mercedes-AMG GmbH posted record results in business year 2001. AMG sold over 18,500 vehicles last year, up more than 60 percent on the figure for 2000. Revenues meanwhile climbed by around 40 percent to nearly € 430 million. To handle the unprecedented rise in new orders, the company invested around € 27 million in real estate, buildings, production facilities and, above all, in the development of new products. As a result of this positive business development, Mercedes-AMG GmbH was able to create 60 new jobs, thereby increasing its workforce to around 540 employees.
AMG’s main markets are the U.S., Canada and Germany. All in all, the company sold about 3,800 C-Class vehicles (C 32), over 2,500 E-Class passenger cars (E 55), more than 2,000 CLK 55s, around 2,200 SLK 32s, more than 3,500 M-Class vehicles (ML 55) and nearly 4,000 S-Class vehicles and CL coupes (S/CL 55) last year."
From AMG Media:
"Stuttgart/Affalterbach, Feb 18, 2002
DaimlerChrysler subsidiary Mercedes-AMG GmbH posted record results in business year 2001. AMG sold over 18,500 vehicles last year, up more than 60 percent on the figure for 2000. Revenues meanwhile climbed by around 40 percent to nearly € 430 million. To handle the unprecedented rise in new orders, the company invested around € 27 million in real estate, buildings, production facilities and, above all, in the development of new products. As a result of this positive business development, Mercedes-AMG GmbH was able to create 60 new jobs, thereby increasing its workforce to around 540 employees.
AMG’s main markets are the U.S., Canada and Germany. All in all, the company sold about 3,800 C-Class vehicles (C 32), over 2,500 E-Class passenger cars (E 55), more than 2,000 CLK 55s, around 2,200 SLK 32s, more than 3,500 M-Class vehicles (ML 55) and nearly 4,000 S-Class vehicles and CL coupes (S/CL 55) last year."
Last edited by E55 KEV; Apr 6, 2004 at 03:37 PM.
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You are missing my point
Kev, I still stand by what I said before and you don't seem to get it.
You are saying that the W210 E55 was hard to sell and in low demand, thus only a measly 500 a year sold. I disagree.
My points:
1) The low volume was not due to a lack of demand in the car's prime years (heck there were six to eight month waiting lists). But the low volume was due to "physical" production limits at the AMG factory. The W210 E55 was the last car to be built the old fashion way at AMG. Even now days the hand built engines are the limiting factor in cranking out AMG cars. But MB is able to build a lot more, ever since it changed to building the cars on the normal factory lines.
2) You are clinging to a "marketing BS" number. Your own findings prove that. MB states that over 40% of the AMG cars go to the US. If 2500 E55 were sold in a single year, that's over 1000 going to the US, not 500.
As a former BMW M owner, I can tell you BMW does the same thing. With past M models, BMW has stated that the cars were limited to X number a year coming to the US. But in reality many more are actually sold. It's just "marketing" to drive up the hype & demand for a model to make seem like it's so exclusive to have.
You are saying that the W210 E55 was hard to sell and in low demand, thus only a measly 500 a year sold. I disagree.
My points:
1) The low volume was not due to a lack of demand in the car's prime years (heck there were six to eight month waiting lists). But the low volume was due to "physical" production limits at the AMG factory. The W210 E55 was the last car to be built the old fashion way at AMG. Even now days the hand built engines are the limiting factor in cranking out AMG cars. But MB is able to build a lot more, ever since it changed to building the cars on the normal factory lines.
2) You are clinging to a "marketing BS" number. Your own findings prove that. MB states that over 40% of the AMG cars go to the US. If 2500 E55 were sold in a single year, that's over 1000 going to the US, not 500.
As a former BMW M owner, I can tell you BMW does the same thing. With past M models, BMW has stated that the cars were limited to X number a year coming to the US. But in reality many more are actually sold. It's just "marketing" to drive up the hype & demand for a model to make seem like it's so exclusive to have.
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Re: You are missing my point
Originally posted by mikE55
2) You are clinging to a "marketing BS" number. Your own findings prove that. MB states that over 40% of the AMG cars go to the US.
2) You are clinging to a "marketing BS" number. Your own findings prove that. MB states that over 40% of the AMG cars go to the US.
This from Motor Trend in 2002:
"BMW plans to import about 2400 M5s this year; Mercedes will bring us just 550 AMG-ified Es."
Last edited by E55 KEV; Apr 8, 2004 at 09:06 AM.
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My data comes from the MBUSA website.
Go to the AMG Center and check the FAQ: http://www.mbusa.com/amg/faq/index.jsp
> General
> How many AMG models are produced each year?
AMG models are special, limited production vehicles. Production and sales vary by model, but annual sales of approximately 1,000 for each model are typical, unless a model is in extremely high demand. In 2001, approximately 18,700 AMGs were sold worldwide. About 40% of AMG models are sold in the United States.
--
I knew you were getting the 500 number from the car mags. They stated that back in 1999 when the E55 was first introduced. It was probably valid then, but not in later years. I think MT just reused the old data numbers again for their '02 M vs. AMG issue. And notice they say "plan to bring", this is different than actual numbers sold. That protects them from being sued when more cars have in fact been sold.
I remember when the e36 M3 first came out, BMW stated some low number (can't recall the exact number, 1500 or something). Then the car was a huge hit and they sold tons of 'em. But many buyers were upset because they thought their car would be rare and instead they were all over the place. On a lesser scale, this same scenario applies to the W210 E55 and that limited edition 500 number. MB did sell more!
Go to the AMG Center and check the FAQ: http://www.mbusa.com/amg/faq/index.jsp
> General
> How many AMG models are produced each year?
AMG models are special, limited production vehicles. Production and sales vary by model, but annual sales of approximately 1,000 for each model are typical, unless a model is in extremely high demand. In 2001, approximately 18,700 AMGs were sold worldwide. About 40% of AMG models are sold in the United States.
--
I knew you were getting the 500 number from the car mags. They stated that back in 1999 when the E55 was first introduced. It was probably valid then, but not in later years. I think MT just reused the old data numbers again for their '02 M vs. AMG issue. And notice they say "plan to bring", this is different than actual numbers sold. That protects them from being sued when more cars have in fact been sold.
I remember when the e36 M3 first came out, BMW stated some low number (can't recall the exact number, 1500 or something). Then the car was a huge hit and they sold tons of 'em. But many buyers were upset because they thought their car would be rare and instead they were all over the place. On a lesser scale, this same scenario applies to the W210 E55 and that limited edition 500 number. MB did sell more!
Last edited by mikE55; Apr 8, 2004 at 03:06 PM.
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Originally posted by mikE55
AMG models are special, limited production vehicles. Production and sales vary by model, but annual sales of approximately 1,000 for each model are typical, unless a model is in extremely high demand. In 2001, approximately 18,700 AMGs were sold worldwide. About 40% of AMG models are sold in the United States.
AMG models are special, limited production vehicles. Production and sales vary by model, but annual sales of approximately 1,000 for each model are typical, unless a model is in extremely high demand. In 2001, approximately 18,700 AMGs were sold worldwide. About 40% of AMG models are sold in the United States.
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Originally posted by moa4r
1,000 cars for each amg model * 40% for the us = about 400 e55s in the US each year, give or take, so basically you guys are both saying the same thing.
1,000 cars for each amg model * 40% for the us = about 400 e55s in the US each year, give or take, so basically you guys are both saying the same thing.
Here's another data point: http://www.findarticles.com/cf_dls/m.../article.jhtml
MONTVALE, N.J. -- MONTVALE, N.J., Jan. 3 /PRNewswire/ --
...Additionally, AMG -- the Affalterbach (Germany)-based premier builder of Mercedes-Benz high-performance models -- reported an impressive year with sales of 6,515. U.S. sales of AMG products have increased tenfold since they first went on sale here. In 2002, MBUSA brought to market several long- awaited AMG models...
--
This is a 2002 number. Divide 6500 by 6 models (C32, SLK32, CLK55, E55, S55, CL55) and you get around 1000 a year for each model in the US. It's not an exact figure, but you get the picture.
Last edited by mikE55; Apr 8, 2004 at 03:52 PM.
