No2fast

You need to log long pulls and compare them before/after. My pulls were all logged before/after on the gerrman Autbahn 60 to 160 and not experienced on a 75 mph interstate.

VictoryRoadPerformance

This is awesome and glad to see youve gotten results, it would be interesting to see what those results are on a dyno in various circumstances such as...

crossovers (2")
crossovers (1")
ported surges only
ported surges with crossovers

we have a 1" crossover set going on because we had to add a blow off valve to an ME2.0 non K retrofit, so hoping to see the psi drop

drothgeb

Yes I have a wideband. might be slightly leaner but I am not logging it so it's just eye balling. I do have a serial cable hooked up to the output but never got a program to log. I've been thinking about buying the $30 PC version of dash command which takes a serial input. Anyways, I will have some nice boost logs of 1/4 mile runs this evening. I am just using LTFT as an indication of how well the intake track is flowing air. If shardul and EC are correct in saying negative LTFTs are actually adding fuel, it's just an indication that I have picked up a small amount of efficiency in the intake track and now the computer has to add a little bit of fuel. I've never been one for the butt dyno "feel" of things so I wont guess as to how it feels. More info to come this evening.

SICAMG

I would think that if you came back after a pull and said...WOW!!! Than you know it did something power wise. Good news so far though.

drothgeb

Yeahhh, but I say that after every pull! Haha. My thoughts are, feeling a change of +/- 5% some where in the hp or torque curve on a car with an instant 500 ftlbs torque is probably mostly in the drivers head. Maybe some driver's butt dynos are just a bit more calibrated than mine

cnterline

drothgeb

Dang it. Just noticed DAs are actually a bit higher tonight. Just saw the AM DA earlier. PM DAs are going to be ~6000 compared to ~5200 at the last event, looks like they start coming down very late, around 10-11pm but they stop at 10pm anyways.

drothgeb

Alright guys, got some results. Overall the night was a little disappointing. I will provide as much info as I can. First a couple disclaimers:

1. I live at elevation, understand and take the DA into account before ridiculing my times! After you understand the DA, feel free to ridicule my times.
2. Track prep was garbage last night (as reflected in my 60 ft). Turns out 5 dollar Friday means every kid with a civic comes to drag race, no one takes it seriously and no one preps the track. I will stick to test and tunes from now on where the bracket racers get some legit prep.

Logs- I averaged 3 runs before and after the cross overs using torque logs: (Not super accurate, not a great sample rate, but its some data, the excel spread sheet is attached) Overall difference:

1. Reduction in boost on average by 1.9 PSI (averaged using 3rd gear data only)
2. Reduction in IAT on average by 6 F - This is with methanol, IAT overall average dropped from 93 to 87. I have no idea what the effects before and after would be without the meth, I have no before runs to compare to so I didn't bother.

Times- Average and best runs were 0.2 seconds slower with the crossover, BUT this is with 1000ft extra DA, and 0.1 slower 60ft. I was pretty disappointed initially. However after looking up exactly what the DAs were it may not have been too bad. Just for kicks I punched the data into the dragtimes DA correction and the times and trap speeds come out almost even. So if I could have hooked for a decent 60 ft MAYBE in the same DA it would be a new best time? I don't know, all speculation, unfortunately conditions were not ideal so this is all I have to go off of.

Without Cross Over (Left Lane)




With Cross-Over (Left Lane)






Welll, that's everything guys. Got more stuff waiting to change so I won't have any more before or after data sorry. The cost from the shop overall was $450 for the fabrication. About $200 more than I was hoping it would come out to, they charged 4.75 hours at $75, plus $70 in mats(with i thought was BS), plus tax. Probably about the same price as the needswings pieces would cost including shipping, however from the pics I believe they used 1" tubes so I got a good chunk more cross section area for about the same price. Overall I would say there are much better things to spend $450 on. (Can probably get a TCU tune and bored throttle body for the same cost) Any ways, sorry I couldn't get some more solid data, but it's something.

C32owner

Thanks a mill for sharing all your efforts. What is your current setup, pulley combo and what boost pressure are you now seeing? I also live at altitude, unfortunately higher than you are so my boost is very low with massive headers on so doesn't help boost at all, so am wanting to stack a pulley combo now, I just worry about sea level trips where there is a possibility of hitting the 17psi limit, although I doubt I would ever hit that. Disappointing to hear your results weren't not as convincing as I was hoping for. Guess need to wait for better track prep and similar DA as per your previous times to really appreciate the difference...
Edit : my bad see your boost in the spreadsheet, what pulley/s you running?

drothgeb

Current set up is 77MM clutched pulley, EC tune, LTHs, meth, TB shaft grind, wavetrac LSD, meth and some cooling. I hear ya on the sea level stuff, if I ever take a trip over the hill to Sacramento I may flip back to the 77, no fuel upgrades and the 72mm at sea level could be dangerous, but up in the hills all of my pressures have been at least 3PSI lower than what sea level guys get with the same combinations, so I'm not too afraid of adding 1PSI more with the 72 on stock fuel.

C32owner

Thanks, I should have guessed you got the same pulley as I, as we running very similar boost. I have all your mods except for lsd, and shaft grind (I definitely want to do this to mine and see what difference it makes, when I get a spare weekend again)

If I travel to sea level I gain about 4psi of boost from my current altitude. Wow a 72mm upper pulley? Have you tried it out yet? What boost do you see what that slapped on, and any significant belt slip, you didn't mention a BWK but I'm presuming you have one if you tend to install the 72 or have installed it.
Edit : as a matter of interest have you had your car on the dyno with your setup and checked your power levels at all?

StarvingArtist

I'm confused, did you really drop 2 psi, or was it just thinner air that day? 2 psi is significant if that's the case. That's got to be feeding the engine much more evenly.

drothgeb

Oh yes, BWK also haha. I have the pulley, waiting on the cable from RaceIQ before I make the switch. They are shipping it monday so hopefully I have the new tune and pulley up and running end of next week. The "boost" charts around show about a 1 PSI increase from the 77mm. Never had it on a dyno. I think the last thing I want to do is send my throttle body out to be bored by maxbore, then I may pay for three pulls at a local shop and try to have RaceIQ remote tune me at the same time. I feel like at that point the next step would be building the fuel system, more cooling, and stacking pullies, and that is an expensive in-devour that I don't plan on pursuing just yet.

Yes, about a 1.5 to 2 PSI drop. The track day was a higher DA but I visually saw about a 2 PSI drop before and after street pulls in the same conditions when I did the mod.

C32owner

Hi @Drothgeb, interested to hear your results on your 72mm upper when you upgraded from the 77mm. Did you notice much difference and have you done logs again like you did with the cross over of the intakes? Been back to run quater mile times again to check on progress? Very interested in your car as I compare it alot to mine as we are "similar" mods at similar altitudes.

drothgeb

Hey brotha! Sorry I don't have great data at the moment. I don't have the 72 shaken out just yet. I upgraded cooling with a second pump and a DTK heat exchanger. Cruising temps were setting at around +20-25* with the fixed pulley and if I idled the car for 20 minutes at a store or something IAT would just drift up on to 140+, probably would keep going if I sat longer and took forever to recover with one CWA50 and frozen boost hx. DTK hx and 2x CWA50 had huge improvements. +13 cruising temps on average at 85* outside air. Settles back wayyyyy fast even after I heat soak the motor. Pretty happy with it. However since I changed the 72 and changed from EC to RaceIQ my tune was pig rich, after about 5k RPMS I was pegged low on the wideband. I ran 12.2 at 80*, 6500 DA with the 72 and <10 AFR. I have a new tune now with much better AFRs BUT track season is over so I wont have any better data until next season

C32owner

Glad the tune is sorted out for now, sad to hear the track is closed off, how well, will give me something to look forward to next season haha.. Your times are so strong for that DA, I am no where near that on a 77mm clutched. The quest for more power will never stop him

drothgeb

Thanks! Ya I'm a little lower than you at 4200ish but man our DA is usually so stupid high. 6000-7000 DA all summer. Only time its in the 4000s is beginning of the season in May. Once I get that TB done and back on I'll work with RaceIQ to get AFR fine tuned as good as I can. This is my first SC car and I don't know if speed density+supercharger+change in altitude doesn't work so great for AFRs or what but both my initial EC and RaceIQ tunes were both PIG RICH, bad. I had EC lean me out twice and he didn't want to do it any more but that was before I was logging AFR. That was the tune I ran my 11.8 with. Tony is WAYYYYY more willing to fine tune AFRs, even knowing he is tuning for methonal on a separate meth specific tune I will only use at the track. But I am actually sending him AFR data logs now. I think at this point the car is starving with the 72mm so I'm hoping the TB helps out a bit too. Then I need to go get a new best for myself haha.

You have a dyno tune on the your car? I know you talk about having it on the dyno quite a bit for your methonal experimenting.

C32owner

Nice that you getting your tune finely "tuned in" pity you don't have dyno's you can compare stuff to, but at last you got track runs. Yea my altitude is 5500ft and today in particular was a hot one, I am dreading the approaching summer for performance... Today was already 90F outside which put our DA 8000ft plus... Needless to say I do all my datalogging at midnight when temps are much cooler and try to keep things as equal as possible. I do hit the dyno especially when testing out a new setup or something to see what difference things make. Tomorrow actually headed back to my tuner who dyno tuned my car on the rollers, since he did the tune the car has basically only had cooling mods done, namely PLM HX, split the cooling and w/m kit, still playing around with nozzle sizing etc but will at least know what difference the cooing mods have done from when he did the tune for me 3 yrs ago Vs what the car is running now. Interested in those results. As a by note, meeting my mate there who has an e55 with weistek charger and a bunch of other stuff... Keen to see his numbers to. We had a good road race the other night, needless to say that weistek e55 is an absolute animal! Once he hits "rape gear" 3rd gear he absolutely walks away from as if I am standing still, incredible stuff!

Worth the wait

E42AMG???

I will be doing this, I can do the welding myself so this will only cost me $20 currently at 17.5 psi during these cold months. I don't drive the car much so should be able to knock this out soon.

C32owner

Look forward to your results

C32owner

Do share your project with outcome please.

E42AMG???

C32owner

Alrighty then, good luck and all the best..

BC928

Dude. Joke. Because MBworld is all about people who never check back in, tell complete stories, or complete a thread. I can say that because mine is going on into prechool age years in length but I come back and update.