Clutch Delete Supercharger Pulley! No more Heavy Back plates!
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Joined: Dec 2005
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From: NJ
2009 SL63 AMG
Superchargers with non-clutched pulleys are common in other cars from the factory. The challenge here is modifying a supercharger system that was designed, evaluated and stress-tested to be used with a clutch.
As evidenced by the operating chatter, this is not a modification without drawbacks...which are hard to justify given the great clutched options out there.
As evidenced by the operating chatter, this is not a modification without drawbacks...which are hard to justify given the great clutched options out there.
Member
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 88
Likes: 25
From: Chandler, AZ
2004 E55
I have been clutchless for 3 years now. Everything is fine. Have 2 blowers that are clutchless, a 280 and a 580. I run a 76mm clutchless with a 172 crank, I am hitting 14psi, and run an FI interchiller, I am seeing intake temps DROP during the end of my run.
40F at idle, 120F at the end of a pull on a 105F day.
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Joined: Jul 2016
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From: Colorado, USA
E55 C63
We have literally sold hundreds of clutch delete pulleys.... its not "mercedes like" to run 10s either. as oneslow55 said, if you dont want the side effects dont mod the car. The chatter is a well known and documented occurrence. We have posted data MANY MANY times on the results of clutch delete pulleys. Its literally the exact same effect as putting a lightweight crank pulley on or a lighter flywheel on a manual car (if you went size for size). Intake temps are higher, but not at peak, and at idle they are negligibly different. if you have properly modified your cooling to match the size you select there is virtually no difference.
The pros massively outweigh the cons, And yeah, The same "fastest m113k cars" have been running clutched. However, the fact its a clutched pulley has nothing to do with their results, By that I mean those same cars with clutch delete pulleys would still be the fastest m113k cars in the world, only slightly faster.
Regardless of the chatter these clutch delete pulleys are rapidly becoming the most popular pulley type. have you heard the blowers rev with these on? The blower sound is insane.
The pros massively outweigh the cons, And yeah, The same "fastest m113k cars" have been running clutched. However, the fact its a clutched pulley has nothing to do with their results, By that I mean those same cars with clutch delete pulleys would still be the fastest m113k cars in the world, only slightly faster.
Regardless of the chatter these clutch delete pulleys are rapidly becoming the most popular pulley type. have you heard the blowers rev with these on? The blower sound is insane.
Super Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 979
Likes: 38
From: South Africa
2018 E63s AMG (Current) 2011 CL63 AMG (Sold) 2005 CLS55 AMG (Sold) 2004 C32 AMG (Sold)
That is because of the idle speed for the blower is higher than engine idle, so it chatters a little. Notice how it goes away when driving? I have been clutchless for 3 years now. Everything is fine. Have 2 blowers that are clutchless, a 280 and a 580.Air intake temps will be high with ANY pulley change, regardless of clutchless or clutched. Specially if you have not taken the proper steps to attack hot air BEFORE changing pullies.
I run a 76mm clutchless with a 172 crank, I am hitting 14psi, and run an FI interchiller, I am seeing intake temps DROP during the end of my run.
40F at idle, 120F at the end of a pull on a 105F day.
I have been clutchless for 3 years now. Everything is fine. Have 2 blowers that are clutchless, a 280 and a 580.Air intake temps will be high with ANY pulley change, regardless of clutchless or clutched. Specially if you have not taken the proper steps to attack hot air BEFORE changing pullies.I run a 76mm clutchless with a 172 crank, I am hitting 14psi, and run an FI interchiller, I am seeing intake temps DROP during the end of my run.
40F at idle, 120F at the end of a pull on a 105F day.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,254
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2002 CL500 to CL55 conversion
We have literally sold hundreds of clutch delete pulleys.... its not "mercedes like" to run 10s either. as oneslow55 said, if you dont want the side effects dont mod the car. The chatter is a well known and documented occurrence. We have posted data MANY MANY times on the results of clutch delete pulleys. Its literally the exact same effect as putting a lightweight crank pulley on or a lighter flywheel on a manual car (if you went size for size). Intake temps are higher, but not at peak, and at idle they are negligibly different. if you have properly modified your cooling to match the size you select there is virtually no difference.
The pros massively outweigh the cons, And yeah, The same "fastest m113k cars" have been running clutched. However, the fact its a clutched pulley has nothing to do with their results, By that I mean those same cars with clutch delete pulleys would still be the fastest m113k cars in the world, only slightly faster.
Regardless of the chatter these clutch delete pulleys are rapidly becoming the most popular pulley type. have you heard the blowers rev with these on? The blower sound is insane.
The pros massively outweigh the cons, And yeah, The same "fastest m113k cars" have been running clutched. However, the fact its a clutched pulley has nothing to do with their results, By that I mean those same cars with clutch delete pulleys would still be the fastest m113k cars in the world, only slightly faster.
Regardless of the chatter these clutch delete pulleys are rapidly becoming the most popular pulley type. have you heard the blowers rev with these on? The blower sound is insane.
it was simply a disclaimer before anyone buys this pulley without knowing about the chatter, I’ve heard of the clutch less pulleys for years but only recently heard about the chatter
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 310
Likes: 49
From: AZ
What I don't understand is that people replace the magnet, so if you take it off, you should be able to put it back on. Why would you need to buy a new supercharger?
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Joined: Jul 2016
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From: Colorado, USA
E55 C63
If you are comfortable replacing the magnet then by all means do so, however, They are very fragile, and its not exactly an easy process as they are pressed on at very high heat. Plus, new OEM magnets are $1100+ used full blowers are ~$600 ish.
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Newbie
Joined: Feb 2023
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Likes: 0
'05 CL55 AMG
To resurrect this topic... Any real-world data?
It's been another two years, and plenty of new people have had their SC clutches fail, and opted to swap in a clutch-less pulley...
Has testing been done which proves that further removing rotational mass from the equation provides sufficient justification for the "Clutch Deletion" VRP designed its more-recent pulleys around?
Has any real-world evidence been published to justify deleting the clutch magnet, and switching to the smaller form-factor of their 'backless' pulleys?
(I have a 77mm UPD clutchless pulley in place now, and don't imagine returning to a clutched pulley in future..)
Enquiring minds, and all that...
Johnny
Has testing been done which proves that further removing rotational mass from the equation provides sufficient justification for the "Clutch Deletion" VRP designed its more-recent pulleys around?
Has any real-world evidence been published to justify deleting the clutch magnet, and switching to the smaller form-factor of their 'backless' pulleys?
(I have a 77mm UPD clutchless pulley in place now, and don't imagine returning to a clutched pulley in future..)
Enquiring minds, and all that...
Johnny
Last edited by Johnny Soporno; Apr 30, 2023 at 09:06 PM.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,126
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From: SoCal
2006 E55, Various other German and ‘Murican
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Joined: Feb 2023
Posts: 4
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'05 CL55 AMG
You must be better at searching than I am!
Not only have I not located "plenty of information", there's not even been sufficient raw data to calculate the answer, so far as I've been able to find?
I've been searching for anything real which compares apples-to-apples, and demonstrates that the VRP-style "Clutch Deletion" provides measurable and consistent benefits leaving the clutch magnet in place, and using a generic (UPD, DTK, or whichever) aluminum fixed-pulley of the same diameter.
If you know where I could find anything, please feel free to point me to it - because I've been searching and searching, and THAT is what brought me to this two-years abandoned thread, to ask the question.
I'm unclear on how the market's movement away from superchargers, clutched or unclutched, is supposed to help me determine whether to invest in the expense of buying one of VRP's 'backless' pulleys, and the additional expense of removing the magnet from my existing car's supercharger... Could you elaborate for me?
Johnny
Not only have I not located "plenty of information", there's not even been sufficient raw data to calculate the answer, so far as I've been able to find?
I've been searching for anything real which compares apples-to-apples, and demonstrates that the VRP-style "Clutch Deletion" provides measurable and consistent benefits leaving the clutch magnet in place, and using a generic (UPD, DTK, or whichever) aluminum fixed-pulley of the same diameter.
If you know where I could find anything, please feel free to point me to it - because I've been searching and searching, and THAT is what brought me to this two-years abandoned thread, to ask the question.
Johnny
Last edited by Johnny Soporno; Apr 30, 2023 at 09:15 PM. Reason: Responded to both posts in one, so as not to appear too annoyed. ;)
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Joined: Feb 2023
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'05 CL55 AMG
Could you please point me to those numbers?
Johnny
Last edited by Johnny Soporno; Apr 30, 2023 at 09:22 PM. Reason: Directed this to the VRP rep directly, hoping for answers :)
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,126
Likes: 80
From: SoCal
2006 E55, Various other German and ‘Murican
You must be better at searching than I am!
I'm unclear on how the market's movement away from superchargers, clutched or unclutched, is supposed to help me determine whether to invest in the expense of buying one of VRP's 'backless' pulleys, and the additional expense of removing the magnet from my existing car's supercharger... Could you elaborate for me?
Johnny
I'm unclear on how the market's movement away from superchargers, clutched or unclutched, is supposed to help me determine whether to invest in the expense of buying one of VRP's 'backless' pulleys, and the additional expense of removing the magnet from my existing car's supercharger... Could you elaborate for me?
Johnny
but just e55 w211 and you have less than 10k cars. A percentage of them are modified. Maybe up to a few thousand. Less of that number is past headers and a tune and less of them are even driving them.
you maybe have a population of a few hundred.
Point being there is going to be little data. Even less if you count how unresponsive and cagey VRP is on a regular basis. But the idea behind a clutch less SC is solid. The challenge is there are many times guibos are absorbing some of that direct drive vibration.
And it creates heat. More heat than normal and the IC is pretty damn small. So meth would need to be sprayed for most setups.
You may have misunderstood my statement however. My point about MFG moving away from SC is just a side point. Main point is that no one else who was doing or is still doing (aftermarket) SC have clutches.
Do with that what you will. This is a not a Toyota they made a million of. Most "tunerz" have moved off this platform because there are like maybe 1000 of us here left. Not a money making empire.
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Joined: Jul 2014
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2005 e55 AMG
For sure a very dwindling platform but I am sticking to it ! The car is too unique with great history for me to move on but as you know getting "technical" info is very difficult to obtain.
I would love to go clutch less but it does not go well with my type of racing IMO.
BC......Your car running yet buddy ?
I would love to go clutch less but it does not go well with my type of racing IMO.
BC......Your car running yet buddy ?
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,126
Likes: 80
From: SoCal
2006 E55, Various other German and ‘Murican
For sure a very dwindling platform but I am sticking to it ! The car is too unique with great history for me to move on but as you know getting "technical" info is very difficult to obtain.
I would love to go clutch less but it does not go well with my type of racing IMO.
BC......Your car running yet buddy ?
I would love to go clutch less but it does not go well with my type of racing IMO.
BC......Your car running yet buddy ?
It's no mystery I'm a fan of the platform.
Need to solve some fuel part challenges and needed to redo part of the IC cooling circuit and but the bullet on which meth system. And of course... "wheelz yo"
Thread Starter
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Joined: Jul 2016
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From: Colorado, USA
E55 C63
What information are you looking for specifically? The boost levels are the same between clutched and clutchless, we posted the results from a customer who did back to back testing and saw a 12hp increase same pulley size, Currently the fastest m113k in the world runs a 9.3s 1/4 mile and runs our clutchless whipple. No issue with deleting the clutch, Great option for anyone who has a dead magnet.
