1st track day done (DE)
05-16-2004, 07:38 AM
#1
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Thread Starter
1st track day done (DE)
OK, first day of tracking the E55 is done. Much fun. Here is my feedback on the car. I am comparing it to a Lamborghini and a Porsche turbo so you will understand my harsh criticisms,
Plow Plow Plow! Man if I could only dial out some of the understeer! The car really pushes. With traction off you can often correct with the throttle but then you are in a big 4-wheel drift and chewing rubber at a ludicrous pace.
There is so little feedback (compared to true track cars) that you end up driving 70% by tire scream. Seriously. Just listen ot the tires and drive till they whine like banshees.
The brakes go in a hurry. The calipers don't get super hot, but the rotors are so heavy and have so little cooling that you even after cool down laps they are over 500F. I had to take my car out on the street after every session for additional rotor cooling.
Talk about sucking gas. Man, about 4mpg.
The brakes were really annoying. If you tried to go to threshold braking quickly, the car automatically jams the brakes, inducing upset and making it difficult to trail brake. Ignore the brake malfunction light.
Now, the right foot was still a blast. What torque.
Overall, incredible performance from an everyday sedan. Mucho fun!
Plow Plow Plow! Man if I could only dial out some of the understeer! The car really pushes. With traction off you can often correct with the throttle but then you are in a big 4-wheel drift and chewing rubber at a ludicrous pace.
There is so little feedback (compared to true track cars) that you end up driving 70% by tire scream. Seriously. Just listen ot the tires and drive till they whine like banshees.
The brakes go in a hurry. The calipers don't get super hot, but the rotors are so heavy and have so little cooling that you even after cool down laps they are over 500F. I had to take my car out on the street after every session for additional rotor cooling.
Talk about sucking gas. Man, about 4mpg.
The brakes were really annoying. If you tried to go to threshold braking quickly, the car automatically jams the brakes, inducing upset and making it difficult to trail brake. Ignore the brake malfunction light.
Now, the right foot was still a blast. What torque.
Overall, incredible performance from an everyday sedan. Mucho fun!
05-16-2004, 10:29 PM
#3
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Thread Starter
OK, here is one shot. I have full video as well, in and outside the car.
Still first day, got black flagged twice for excessive tire noise. No joke, once with an instructor in the car. I said there must be something wrong with the car and when we pull in, the track steward says my tires are so loud I must be out of control. I said it's a big heavy car with street tires, to no avail. They finally gave me a third black flag and sacked me for the day when I took the traction control off and now I added tire spin on exit to the mix and they couldn't take it.
I then talked to the track steward again and explained that the e-brake system interprets a rapid lift off the gas and then brake application as a panic stop and everything locks up. I told him I can avoid it most of the time but to try and give me a break. I solved it by lifting early, and then going slower to the brake.
Second Day
First of all, run ridiculously high front tire pressure to reduce the understeer. The tires roll over so badly that I just kept raising the tire pressure. I finally stopped at 42 psi cold front, 36 cold back. I am sure this put the fronts near 50 (or better) hot, but what an improvement in understeer! Man, now I could do a controlled power on 4-wheel drift consistently without completely washing out the front end on every turn. Yes the car still understeered badly but what an improvement.
With traction off, you really have to listen otherwise upon turn exit you might notice a trail of smoke behind your car. I just passed a Ferrari 360 with F1 shift and when we get back in after the session, he says "Wholly mother of God what kind of engine do you have in that thing, We came out of turn 10 at 80 mph and you rear tire is still spinning!¡¨ Then I said I'll have to talk to you after I cool off my rotors.
The front left tire started to really fall apart so we has to switch front wheels to equal out the damage. I can take a picture of destroyed tires if anyone wants to see the carnage.
The final session was 25 minutes (normally 20). The extra five minutes was too much. I came into turn 11 at my normal speed and brake point, threshold decelerating and waiting for turn in point and speed. Turn in point passes, still to fast to turn in, ... still too fast for turn in, .. Uh oh, what the hell happened to my brakes, ... followed immediately by "should I try to make the turn or bail straight off¨. Took it off very slowly and drove right into the pits (happened on the exit turn so I rode through 10 feet of grass to get on the track exit road into the pits. No big deal for me this time but you can't ignore the brake malfunction light forever! I can't tell if it was fluid or pad fade because I felt nothing different from the pedal, just that the car wouldn't stop nearly as well. The pads built up a weird white powder at the edges and started to chunk a little by the end.
Had a blast, passed some Porsche's, a lot of Ferrari's, and the crowd thought I was great because my car was screaming all over the track. I'm not a great driver at all but it was funny. I can't wait until I get my turbo but the E55 stood tall and proud. Now she can old her head high parked next to the Lambo and the tt in the garage.
Still first day, got black flagged twice for excessive tire noise. No joke, once with an instructor in the car. I said there must be something wrong with the car and when we pull in, the track steward says my tires are so loud I must be out of control. I said it's a big heavy car with street tires, to no avail. They finally gave me a third black flag and sacked me for the day when I took the traction control off and now I added tire spin on exit to the mix and they couldn't take it.
I then talked to the track steward again and explained that the e-brake system interprets a rapid lift off the gas and then brake application as a panic stop and everything locks up. I told him I can avoid it most of the time but to try and give me a break. I solved it by lifting early, and then going slower to the brake.
Second Day
First of all, run ridiculously high front tire pressure to reduce the understeer. The tires roll over so badly that I just kept raising the tire pressure. I finally stopped at 42 psi cold front, 36 cold back. I am sure this put the fronts near 50 (or better) hot, but what an improvement in understeer! Man, now I could do a controlled power on 4-wheel drift consistently without completely washing out the front end on every turn. Yes the car still understeered badly but what an improvement.
With traction off, you really have to listen otherwise upon turn exit you might notice a trail of smoke behind your car.
I just passed a Ferrari 360 with F1 shift and when we get back in after the session, he says "Wholly mother of God what kind of engine do you have in that thing, We came out of turn 10 at 80 mph and you rear tire is still spinning!¡¨ Then I said I'll have to talk to you after I cool off my rotors.The front left tire started to really fall apart so we has to switch front wheels to equal out the damage. I can take a picture of destroyed tires if anyone wants to see the carnage.
The final session was 25 minutes (normally 20). The extra five minutes was too much. I came into turn 11 at my normal speed and brake point, threshold decelerating and waiting for turn in point and speed. Turn in point passes, still to fast to turn in, ... still too fast for turn in, .. Uh oh, what the hell happened to my brakes, ... followed immediately by "should I try to make the turn or bail straight off¨. Took it off very slowly and drove right into the pits (happened on the exit turn so I rode through 10 feet of grass to get on the track exit road into the pits. No big deal for me this time but you can't ignore the brake malfunction light forever! I can't tell if it was fluid or pad fade because I felt nothing different from the pedal, just that the car wouldn't stop nearly as well. The pads built up a weird white powder at the edges and started to chunk a little by the end.
Had a blast, passed some Porsche's, a lot of Ferrari's, and the crowd thought I was great because my car was screaming all over the track. I'm not a great driver at all but it was funny. I can't wait until I get my turbo but the E55 stood tall and proud. Now she can old her head high parked next to the Lambo and the tt in the garage.
Last edited by ColorChange; 05-16-2004 at 10:47 PM.
05-16-2004, 11:43 PM
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Sounds like you had a lot of fun. Now you can understand my reluctance to go out on the track without pads that tolerate heat better because I had the same experience when I stayed out an extra 5 minutes. When I hit the pits my pads were on fire and had to be doused with a fire extinguisher. That was even with the brake ducts.
I can't wait to get out there again. It's quite a feeling blowing by true "race cars" and Ferraris in your family sedan.
I can't wait to get out there again. It's quite a feeling blowing by true "race cars" and Ferraris in your family sedan.
05-17-2004, 04:41 AM
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Great photo - pls show vids. Look like you really had a lot of fun. What's wrong with the instructor? Does he have ear problems? Next time try high perf brake fluid such as Castrol SRF. Also change the pads to something like Pagid. I used to do a bit of racing myself, and these 2 products were excellent - even in 2 hour enduros.
05-17-2004, 08:32 AM
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Chill: You are dead right. Nothing like blowing by a $200k Ferrrari with a $90k sedan! And yes, watch the brakes. I wouldn't do it again (push it hard) without new fluid, increased cooling ducts, removing the dust sheilds, and new fluid. Now don't get me wrong, I couldn't pass the good drivers in the nice cars.
Fanatic: Yes, SRF is the best. I didn't want the dealer to know why I wanted SRF so since the car is so new (Feb '04) I took a chance. Chill has been trying to get racing pads. None are available right now.
Because of the e-brakes, I don't know which it was but it sounds like it was the pads as the strange white stuff and Chill's fire in the hole experience.
Fanatic: Yes, SRF is the best. I didn't want the dealer to know why I wanted SRF so since the car is so new (Feb '04) I took a chance. Chill has been trying to get racing pads. None are available right now.
Because of the e-brakes, I don't know which it was but it sounds like it was the pads as the strange white stuff and Chill's fire in the hole experience.
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05-17-2004, 10:09 AM
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Great Picture Colorchange
I would love to see the picture of the destroyed tire if it’s not too much of a hassle
I can take a picture of destroyed tires if anyone wants to see the carnage.
05-17-2004, 10:26 AM
#9
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Yikes! What a story. I Chill can get your worn pads to get the high perf pads. I've been holding off tracking the E55 but now, hmmmmm.
05-17-2004, 12:22 PM
#10
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Goody, yea, once my rotors got below 300F, we both laughed and I said he owed me a new set of tires because I burned mine up dicing (DE style) with him. He laughed and said he couldn't wait for the checkered flag as he was getting tired pushing it that hard. We both laughed and had huge grins on our faces. We was slightly slower than me but I made more mistakes so I would catch him, fall back because of a missed apex, or whatever, and then reel him back in with the right foot. It was the best session of the weekend and I have the whole thing on video.
I'll try to take a shot of the tires.
I'll try to take a shot of the tires.
05-17-2004, 11:23 PM
#13
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xx The Lambo is fantastically balanced, sure footed, and amazing grip at the track. Super broad torque range makes throttle modulation a breeze. Two gigantic problems though. 1. the brakes. Completely inadequate. That was why I installed a Willwood racing system and additional air ducting. After this, braking was fantastic and I pulled 48 lbs of unsprung weight off the car. 2, the car is too damn heavy to be a real tracker. If you do loose the rear end, which is fairly easy to do with the right foot when near the limit, you had better catch it in a hurry, otherwise there ain’t no stopping her comin’ around. A fairly large problem is that the tranny is not particularly smooth so you better be good at heal and toe, double clutch downshifting. Still, the roar of the engine is amazing and an overall pleasure to drive.
tendons
I had been running 38 up front and 36 rear but now ai think I will try higher pressures on the street as well.
tendons
I had been running 38 up front and 36 rear but now ai think I will try higher pressures on the street as well.
