GM_Lover

Anyone else see this?


He starts talking about what he thinks was the cause at the 5:30 mark: a very brittle oil pickup tube o-ring. I've removed and/or replaced my fair share of oil pumps from many different cars even with decently high mileage (200k-250k), and I've never seen anything like this. In the video, he says the blown M113k only had about 200km (~125k miles) on it, but his o-ring looked like a piece of abs plastic. That kind of deterioration for that particular part at such relatively low miles doesn't make sense to me, so I'm leaning toward root cause being neglect or maybe someone replaced the original seal with a poor quality one while doing related repairs. But I don't know. Can anyone with experience tearing apart these engines (or at least that part of the engine) chime in?

ItalianJoe1

Heat causes that, not mileage, so if the car was run hard and shut off, or idled for extended periods, it could easily happen.

I've seen this personally and it's a known issue on the GM LS engines, particularly in work trucks or other hard use engines with a lot of time/mileage on them, they will be so brittle they will have very low oil pressure until the engine warms up and the o-ring can start to seal again. I've replaced a few, and it solves the problem, so I don't doubt the validity of his argument. I would find it surprising if that was the ONLY cause of failure though, as even with slightly degraded oil intake, the oil pump should be more than capable of protecting the engine. I think there was probably a breakdown in the lubrication system somewhere else that actually took out the engine.

GM_Lover

Very interesting. Like I said, I've actually never seen this before in any car I've worked on. Learned something new. I just didn't think that the pickup tube or oil pump housing was exposed to the type of heat that could cause them to deteriorate like that. Also didn't know this was a known issue in LS engines. I've replaced a few LS oil pumps and have never seen this. One was in an LS1 Camaro with 200k miles. The old seal in that was as supple as the new one that went in.

tw2

I watched that yesterday as well. Very interesting but unfortunately being such a difficult preventative procedure I don't think it is worth worrying about. I think being a twin charged track car may contribute to the prolonged high temperatures

SICAMG

THIS IS A TWIN TURBO CAR FEEDING THE BLOWER !!!!!!!! CHECK OUT HIS OTHER VID'S FOR SOME INSANE SUSPENSION WORK......I MEAN INSANE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I LOVE THIS GUY !!!!

Osgee

In his new video his donor engine also has a bad o ring, how can we add an oil prressure gauge to keep an eye on things?

M5 LOL

I'm subscribed to that channel as well. this is not a common issue, and id image both engines were not well cared for. the junkyard motor looks hammered and to be fair his car is probably the most modified E55 ever. I'm sure heated and boiled oil are cause of this. but to his credit, the dude is a genius, like legit he's smarter than the rest of us. but this isn't an issue I'm the least worried about.

Osgee

I tend to get worried easily over my e55 as its a car thats being kept indefinitely, was just wondering for the price of an oil pressure gauge is it not worth doing ?

tw2

It is always good to monitor everything. Ideally oil pressure, fuel pressure and AFR but the chance of something going catastrophically wrong in a fairly stock or mildly modified car is pretty low. I personally wouldn't want a pile of gauges all over my dash and humans being humans will stop looking at them after not too long and chances are miss an issue anyway. Just my opinion.

If you are keen then this is probably the most subtle gauge possible https://www.dynotunenitrous.com/stor...?idproduct=130 they do the same style for anything you want to monitor.

mbmg

Do our engines even have a port to tap into for an oil pressure gauge?

tw2

I don't think they do but I don't know. Might require drilling and tapping into an oil gallery. He said in the latest video he will install one in the new engine so look out for that.

Hopefully it is more of a cold climate heat cycle problem so at least some people won't have quite as much worry. I imagine doing this under the car is a nightmare job. Wait for the transmission rebuild and rear main seal replacement time.

E55Greasemonkey

Yes- I believe so....there is a rectangular plate on the timing cover, somewhat below the oil filter housing with an allen screw in it, which may be able to facilitate an oil pressure sender.

MACEDON

good lord.....

Sulaco

On my older m113 cars, this was identified as the oil pressure test port, but is plugged off and unused. Sounds like an easy modification.

mbmg

I may have to add an oil pressure sensor along with a fuel pressure sensor and a ZAVT-1 to my ZT-2 for piece of mind.

SICAMG

What about just tapping into the oil filter housing itself ? Right on the side.

mbmg

Yeah, I thought of that too. I need to change the oil filter housing gasket/o-rings anyways.I'll look for a good spot to tap when I have it off if it's a better location than the timing cover plate.

SICAMG

Well easy to get to for sure and the sender is small. I will tap it,put a gauge on it to see where the pressure is and than run an led warning light hidden in the ac vent out of sight unless it comes on ......hopefully never !!!
I am putting a MAP clamp in now so when I am done I will install warning light and let you know how it is.

E55Greasemonkey

Make sure you tap into a flat spot on the casting, not a rounded area- or you'll be fighting leaks forever. Look for that plate I mentioned it isn't far from the filter housing assembly.

N_Rob

Ugh, I was so ready to blame the twin charged set-up for the failure until this video... and now he's got me worried after taking apart the CLS55 engine and finding the same fault. A blown engine is my worst nightmare for this car, and mine has 178k miles . I really don't understand how this hasn't shown up more though if it's as common as these videos make it seem. If the fault really was there for all four model years, how have these engine's not have blown up more because of it? I'm sure you all know of The Conforti Brothers and their 408k+ mile E55, and there are still yet more E55's with over 200k miles. Just seems very odd that a problem of this scale has not shown up on these higher mileage cars. I could put myself at ease by replacing the o-ring with a more durable material one but isn't that a very involving job? Might not even be worth it. I just hope this is an isolated event, not age related, and E55's don't start having sudden and catastrophic engine failures.

StarvingArtist

I had the subframe out and the oil pan off once for maintenance a couple years ago. It wasn't that bad of a job except for resealing the oil pan. Oil drips out endlessly and gets on the sealing surface, even after a week. If it wasn't for that, I'd pull it out again for my next round of suspension maintenance and have a look.

SICAMG

I orderd a new seal for the pump like the op did so when I pop the engine out this winter for some mods, I will put it in with the new pump.Easy enough.
Although the oil sender/idiot light will go in this weekend.

Davednconfused

I really think this is getting blown out of proportion. Like has been said in this thread already, there are tons and tons of E55s with over 200k miles. You don't see these cars spinning bearings regularly or randomly having catastrophic failures.

I'll confidently go out on a limb and say his engine failure can 100% be attributed to the twin charged setup. Otherwise, this would have showed up YEARS ago.

supreame

How do you explain the second m113k he tore down that also had a hardened o ring?

Davednconfused

He removed an o-ring from the oil pick-up of a motor with over 100k miles, probably after having to pry it out, and placed it on the oil pick-up of another. Who's to say that the o-ring wasn't making a seal (even if hardened, as o-rings do over time...) when inside the motor? Who's to say it would have ever broken? It is common practice to replace gaskets when removing a TB, etc... because even though they were sealing fine when removed, chances are they will no longer be sealing properly if you try to re-use them.

This isn't something that we're seeing left and right, and this car is 15+ years old at this point.

People are freaking out over this for no reason. It's not a real problem, otherwise we'd know about it already.