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I was having a great year with the E63 until I got the "Top Up Coolant" warning the other day.
I topped it off with Zerex G-05, not knowing where the fill line was supposed to be. It was at the bottom of the reservoir (where it begins to get smaller) when the "Top Up Coolant" message came up. I filled it to about halfway between that level and the actual fill line (where that tab is in the middle of the reservoir). I've had a small leak in the overflow hose leading out of the reservoir for a year - never made anything of it. Decided to remove it and clean off the dry coolant crust that'd accumulated around it while the new part comes in.
Drove it the next day for an hour or so, "Coolant Top Up" message again. Checked reservoir - coolant returned to the same level. Topped it up again, immediately drove home, and parked it. Looked for signs of leakage, nothing really noticeable. I hadn't experienced any smoke out of the backside.
Having traversed the head bolts threads repeatedly on a few occasions, I had this gut-wrenching feeling when I saw the message again.
Went into paranoid investigation mode. No signs of any crazy leaking/spraying in the engine bay. Checked oil fill cap, dipstick, and reservoir.
Currently waiting for an opportunity to take a day off from work and flatbed it to the dealer. I know I'm in it for thousands if it's the head bolts.
I want to get some preliminary thoughts, as I've personally never had an issue like this before. My previous BMW E39s loved to leak fluids but they were pretty obvious.
I've attached some images. Do any of the pictures look out of the ordinary? I'd appreciate any inputs. https://imgur.com/a/ENXiPiY
Oil is Liquimoly 5W40, I'd used Ceratec the oil change before the last. Oil change intervals between 1-3k miles.
Last edited by swertle; 09-17-2018 at 11:22 PM.
Reason: Moving images
That's where my leak was coming from. Considering you've moved around the coolant hose it might be your issue.
Thanks for chiming in! I'll go check for that in the engine bay later. The plastics are quite brittle - I've replaced the reservoir altogether. I should have swapped the cap at the same time.
The hose I moved didn't look like that. It's the one that leads into the overflow, but it looks to be of the same material as what failed on yours.
EDIT: Realized that's the other end of the same hose. I didn't remove the end going into the thermostat. I went and wiggled it just now. Seems okay...
When you removed the oil cap, does the oil smell like it might have engine coolant in it?
Or does it just smell like motor oil? Just a suggestion, remove your engine belly pans and check for coolant leaks, from the radiator, hoses and even the water pump.
If there's no leaks, you might have blown head gaskets, hence broken head bolts. There are testers that you can buy to test for cross contamination.
Coolant pressure check, compression test and possibly a leak down is the answer. Hydrolock is best avoided. Even consider a flatbed, may waste a hundred bucks or save $10,000.
When you removed the oil cap, does the oil smell like it might have engine coolant in it?
Or does it just smell like motor oil? Just a suggestion, remove your engine belly pans and check for coolant leaks, from the radiator, hoses and even the water pump.
If there's no leaks, you might have blown head gaskets, hence broken head bolts. There are testers that you can buy to test for cross contamination.
It doesn't smell like anything but oil. I think I have a small oil leak at the drain bolt from reusing a washer... (I know).
I crawled around the engine bay at every angle and finally came across some dense looking crust around a hose going into the firewall. Looks suspiciously similar
to the crust I have around the reservoir. I'm not sure if it's new though. I'm going to take the car in anyway. There's too much going on.
Originally Posted by tw2
Coolant pressure check, compression test and possibly a leak down is the answer. Hydrolock is best avoided. Even consider a flatbed, may waste a hundred bucks or save $10,000.
I hear you loud and clear. I can get my car towed around for free through my insurance plan so I'm planning to take it in on a flatbed regardless.
Originally Posted by layzie12g
I sent you a p/m on Facebook yesterday. Make sure you get your car to a good technician at the dealer and do not leave it to chance.
Thank you! I've actually seen you around the forum. Didn't know we were in the same club.
Wanted to provide a quick summary since my last post.
I sent the oil out to Blackstone while waiting for work to die down so I could get the car to a shop.
They found some signs of coolant, but very little. I've enclosed a copy of the results in case anyone wants to see.
I actually left the car with layzie12g to see if he could reproduce the issue.
After pressure testing and looking for external leaks, nothing stood out.
He drove it 25 miles and I've driven in 50 since with no loss in coolant.
I have a quote from a local independent for $4500 to do the head bolts and refinish the deck.
Am currently debating what to do next.
Thanks for the update. FWIW I have had a number of cooling related issue and know all about that gutted feeling when you see the low coolant warning (even though my cars has had the head bolts done );. I think these cooling system components just dry out and fail over time especially if your in a dry climate. For a while the only issues i had with my 07 were cooling related and I have essentially replaced all the components at this point (including the radiator itself). Good luck!!
Thanks for the update. FWIW I have had a number of cooling related issue and know all about that gutted feeling when you see the low coolant warning (even though my cars has had the head bolts done );. I think these cooling system components just dry out and fail over time especially if your in a dry climate. For a while the only issues i had with my 07 were cooling related and I have essentially replaced all the components at this point (including the radiator itself). Good luck!!
Hey, thanks for the heads up. I’m having to car diagnosed again at an Indy before going for the head bolts and lifters. Do you happen to remember what your head bolt jobs cost you? The quote I got is between 6-7k to do the bolts and head gasket. That includes the cost to refinish the deck. Seems on the high side to me.
I had a loss of coolant due to a bad o ring in the lower radiator hose. Twice my heart dropped, first time the hose to the thermostat cracked and leaked all my coolant the second time was the lower hose o ring.
check the pan between the motor and the radiator fan to see if theres a leak.
Hey, thanks for the heads up. I’m having to car diagnosed again at an Indy before going for the head bolts and lifters. Do you happen to remember what your head bolt jobs cost you? The quote I got is between 6-7k to do the bolts and head gasket. That includes the cost to refinish the deck. Seems on the high side to me.
No, sorry I dont have the price bc it was done at the dealership by the previous owner and the service history printouts don't appear to include pricing. This issue has been covered pretty extensively and you can also search the W204 C63 section if somebody doesn't chime in soon
do everything you can to ensure your headbolts are still intact.
side note...if your little coolant hose is bad...most likely all hoses and o-rings in relation to the coolant system are also due for a change. don't chance anything with a high performance engine.
Since layzie12g's queue of jobs meant he couldn't do an engine out job anytime soon, I ended up taking the car to a independent in the area.
I don't want to name names but they'd basically told me that they'd done this job before. Upon arriving and talking to an SA, they told me that they'd done the job one bolt at a time for someone that'd already had oil and coolant mix.
The quote to do the job one bolt at a time and engine in was $2800. When I insisted that I'd want the engine to come out and the deck to be refinished (and of course, a new head gasket), that quote went up to $6-7K.
I called the local dealer the next day, got a quote for substantially less, paid the indy $300 for a diagnostic they probably didn't do (they didn't report a bunch of problems I knew I had), and towed it to the dealer.
I opted to pay a bit more and do the updated SLS lifters as well as address an upper oil pan gasket leak (which is also an engine-out job, from what I understand).
I'm supposed to get my car back tomorrow! I've since received a bunch of test kits from BlackStone - will report back with a new report once I've driven the car some.
Originally Posted by hachiroku
do everything you can to ensure your headbolts are still intact.
side note...if your little coolant hose is bad...most likely all hoses and o-rings in relation to the coolant system are also due for a change. don't chance anything with a high performance engine.
2017 MB GLC300 4Matic Sport Package :: 2009 E63 AMG
Originally Posted by swertle
Hi everyone,
Since layzie12g's queue of jobs meant he couldn't do an engine out job anytime soon, I ended up taking the car to a independent in the area.
I don't want to name names but they'd basically told me that they'd done this job before. Upon arriving and talking to an SA, they told me that they'd done the job one bolt at a time for someone that'd already had oil and coolant mix.
The quote to do the job one bolt at a time and engine in was $2800. When I insisted that I'd want the engine to come out and the deck to be refinished (and of course, a new head gasket), that quote went up to $6-7K.
I called the local dealer the next day, got a quote for substantially less, paid the indy $300 for a diagnostic they probably didn't do (they didn't report a bunch of problems I knew I had), and towed it to the dealer.
I opted to pay a bit more and do the updated SLS lifters as well as address an upper oil pan gasket leak (which is also an engine-out job, from what I understand).
I'm supposed to get my car back tomorrow! I've since received a bunch of test kits from BlackStone - will report back with a new report once I've driven the car some.
Just crossed over 73,300 recently.
Glad to hear you're getting it sorted. I went through the exact same sinking feelings with chasing the low coolant issue before they ultimately failed and I think you'll be glad you did the entire job and not "one-in one-out".
I'd like to know the better price at the dealer? I'm guessing the refinishing the deck is a quick sanding job. To do it correctly the engine would have to be totally disassembled. With all the metal chips and mounting on a machine to resurface the block you can not have parts in it. So that calls for a complete overhaul or rebuild.
+1, resurfacing anything requires total disassembly. I would be chucking a precision straight edge on it before going to those extremes. Unless it has become hot enough to warp the head completely, usually a good clean and prep is enough.
I'd like to know the better price at the dealer? I'm guessing the refinishing the deck is a quick sanding job. To do it correctly the engine would have to be totally disassembled. With all the metal chips and mounting on a machine to resurface the block you can not have parts in it. So that calls for a complete overhaul or rebuild.
I was going to wait til I actually got the car back to report the pricing. It’s so far running at about $4000 including one broken thermostat (hose inlet was brittle) and an extra oil change to flush out the gunk. They discovered one bolt snapped and milkshake once the valve covers came off so delivery revised to Tuesday.
Depending on where the bolt breaks will determine whether the head can be removed in the car or not. Sometimes it can end up in an engine out scenario. You will be very happy once it is all sorted and ready for abuse again.
To the original poster, please explain how or what they did to "refinish the deck" TO DO IT RIGHT, they have to completely disassemble the whole engine, that means new rings, seals and such. And sorry this day and age in the US $4000. to R and R the engine and rebuild it just won't happen especially on a mercedes. So to be accurate they are just "CLEANING THE DECK" right?
Depending on where the bolt breaks will determine whether the head can be removed in the car or not. Sometimes it can end up in an engine out scenario. You will be very happy once it is all sorted and ready for abuse again.
Thanks - with this car being my only ride, it was a very stressful but I've made a lot of friends along the way. There's lots to appreciate.
Originally Posted by exhaustgases
To the original poster, please explain how or what they did to "refinish the deck" TO DO IT RIGHT, they have to completely disassemble the whole engine, that means new rings, seals and such. And sorry this day and age in the US $4000. to R and R the engine and rebuild it just won't happen especially on a mercedes. So to be accurate they are just "CLEANING THE DECK" right?
Sorry, I think I got that idea in my head from talking to somebody at the independent shop who said "they did this to every car that had the heads come off." I'm pretty sure you are correct.
Thank you for the reply. Something else I wanted to add, even when removing the heads, in some cases when doing a "refinish"on them could be a huge deal, since the over head cam bores need to be super close in alignment. In most cases its just a good cleaning that they would also get.
I was supposed to have my car back a few days ago. The delivery date was pushed back a day at a time due to parts not being available.
A thermostat, a new chain tensioner, and a breather pipe later, car's almost ready to come out. I requested two oil changes to flush out
all the old oil. Finally, it's time for the dealer to start the car.
First, they reported a rough idle. After some diagnostics, it turns out cylinders 1, 2, 3, 4 are misfiring. Cylinders 1 and 2 have low compression.
They think it might be because of coolant contamination of the rings. There's also a new CEL showing an issue with the camshaft adjuster.
I didn't have any of these issues before the car came apart, so I'm not sure what to think of this. The cost to move forward here is considerable (nearly $3k).
The entire reason I started this thread is to share the experience with anyone thinking of doing head bolts. Here's that part.
09-17-2018, 11:12 PM
);. I think these cooling system components just dry out and fail over time especially if your in a dry climate. For a while the only issues i had with my 07 were cooling related and I have essentially replaced all the components at this point (including the radiator itself). Good luck!!
