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Disappointing track times

 
Old 10-07-2018, 01:31 PM
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03 e55
Disappointing track times

EDIT - ADDED DATA LOGS AT THE BOTTOM!

Well ran the E tonight and am kind of disappointed in the trap speed.

Car has eurocharged mid length headers
Ecu and tcu eurocharged tune
Eurocharged lower pulley (believe its a 180)
Truck tank (I did not ice it) next time!

DA was about 2000 and I’m in FL so it’s HOT.

Whats the deal? Why so slow lol

Thoughts?




Last edited by Drew Durham; 10-15-2018 at 10:04 AM. Reason: adding logs
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Old 10-07-2018, 02:20 PM
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I’m sure there will be a few beach racers that will shed light on it. Hahaha.
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Old 10-07-2018, 05:46 PM
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Yea,ec sucks and over gloried ..I would talk to race iq guys luke or tony
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Old 10-08-2018, 08:06 AM
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First stage of timing pull is 95* iat. It just gets worse from there. Try it with ice, make sure your pump is working.
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Old 10-08-2018, 08:35 AM
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Originally Posted by StarvingArtist View Post
First stage of timing pull is 95* iat. It just gets worse from there. Try it with ice, make sure your pump is working.
The tank is getting a good constant flow of pumping to it so i am assuming that means the front pump is working.

I am assuming its pulling timing. The water in the tank was pretty hot after each run.
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Old 10-08-2018, 08:37 AM
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Originally Posted by oneslow55 View Post
Yea,ec sucks and over gloried ..I would talk to race iq guys luke or tony
Funny you said this. I had a guy saying he had the same mods running the same time with EC tune. Switched only to raceiq and ran 11.6
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Old 10-08-2018, 02:48 PM
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I would highly recommend getting a cheap OBDII Wifi dongle and the DashCommand app for your phone and logging three parameters: IAT, Boost, and RPM I have found that troubleshooting always starts with knowing those values, and for less than $20 you can have them at your disposal.
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Old 10-08-2018, 04:08 PM
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Anyone know where to get a raceiq tune cheap?
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Old 10-08-2018, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Drew Durham View Post
Funny you said this. I had a guy saying he had the same mods running the same time with EC tune. Switched only to raceiq and ran 11.6
Tune is not your problem. Like Joe said you need to log your runs. IAT, enough fuel, how much timing is being pulled ? 2000DA TO 0 DA huge difference. Wait for better weather and ice it and wait 30-40 minutes between your runs. If there are no issues with the car it will come around. Good luck!
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Old 10-08-2018, 07:06 PM
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Look up Lukas edge on fb ..he’s race iq main guy for the company and he’s very knowledgeable on all platforms including this one !
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Old 10-08-2018, 08:45 PM
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Your IAT are most likely quite high.

also, same car in 40 degree temps would have probably done mid 11ís
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Old 10-08-2018, 09:40 PM
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HEAT! Were you running back-to-back? Regardless, if it's 90F outside, and you are sitting in the staging lanes, you'd be at about 110F+. Then, add a burnout- about 130F. So you're leaving the line at 120-130F. That puts you about 160-180F at the end of the track. Huge loss of power when the timing is pulled. You'll need to monitor you IAT's as others have said. That will answer your question. A good rule of thumb is that every 10F in the ambient temp equals .1 second and 1mph in the 1/4 mile. In high ambient temps that can easily be multiplied by 1.5. This is all assuming you intercooler setup is working properly.
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Old 10-09-2018, 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by JoeJErnst View Post
I would highly recommend getting a cheap OBDII Wifi dongle and the DashCommand app for your phone and logging three parameters: IAT, Boost, and RPM I have found that troubleshooting always starts with knowing those values, and for less than $20 you can have them at your disposal.
I actually have one coming in the mail today so I can start logging. Curious to see boost and IAT's
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Old 10-09-2018, 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by E55Greasemonkey View Post
HEAT! Were you running back-to-back? Regardless, if it's 90F outside, and you are sitting in the staging lanes, you'd be at about 110F+. Then, add a burnout- about 130F. So you're leaving the line at 120-130F. That puts you about 160-180F at the end of the track. Huge loss of power when the timing is pulled. You'll need to monitor you IAT's as others have said. That will answer your question. A good rule of thumb is that every 10F in the ambient temp equals .1 second and 1mph in the 1/4 mile. In high ambient temps that can easily be multiplied by 1.5. This is all assuming you intercooler setup is working properly.
Runs were not back to back. 30-45 min cool down in between runs probably. No burnout also. Just a quick rip of the tires to clean them off. I'm going to start logging IAT and everything today so will report back with temps im showing.
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Old 10-15-2018, 10:01 AM
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Old 10-15-2018, 10:03 AM
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Ignore the mini cooper S dashboard haha

Few logs above - this was a 2nd gear, 30 - 85 mph blast. IAT got up to 151* on the end of that pull

Thoughts?
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Old 10-15-2018, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Drew Durham View Post
Ignore the mini cooper S dashboard haha

Few logs above - this was a 2nd gear, 30 - 85 mph blast. IAT got up to 151* on the end of that pull

Thoughts?
what are your cooling mods? Ic pump heat exchanger or anything else? I was under the assumption that a 180mm or 77mm requires pretty hefty cooling upgrades
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Old 10-15-2018, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by failboat View Post


what are your cooling mods? Ic pump heat exchanger or anything else? I was under the assumption that a 180mm or 77mm requires pretty hefty cooling upgrades
Has a Trunk tank
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Old 10-15-2018, 10:45 AM
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Given those IATs, your track times aren't bad. If you're over 150 degrees just going from 30 to 85, just imagine what it was going from 0 to 112 after sitting still for a while. At those IATs you're loosing a lot of timing (that's way past the maximum timing cut), and it may start adding fuel to cool it down (which can also cost you a lot of power at high rpms).

You should try with ice and see how much of a difference it makes.

Do you have any kind of upgraded heat exchanger? A trunk tank is nice, but you still need some way to get rid of the heat and the stock heat exchanger is not sufficient with a 180 pulley. There are lots of aftermarket heat exchangers to choose from, and based on where you live, I would recommend also getting a "secondary" heat exchanger to mount in front of the radiator (VRP sells one).

Not sure why people are saying there's something wrong with your tune. There's no evidence of a bad tune. I've heard good things about Tony at RaceIQ, but Jerry at EC is also great, so there's no reason to switch. If you do have a problem with your tune (you would need to log AFR with a wideband to find out), Jerry would be more than willing to fix it for you. Once you get the IATs under control, you might consider getting it tuned on a dyno to make sure it's perfect (you can usually get decent gains over a non-dyno tune). Assuming you don't live near EC, Jerry can do it remotely.
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Old 10-15-2018, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by sjc246 View Post
Given those IATs, your track times aren't bad. If you're over 150 degrees just going from 30 to 85, just imagine what it was going from 0 to 112 after sitting still for a while. At those IATs you're loosing a lot of timing (that's way past the maximum timing cut), and it may start adding fuel to cool it down (which can also cost you a lot of power at high rpms).

You should try with ice and see how much of a difference it makes.

Do you have any kind of upgraded heat exchanger? A trunk tank is nice, but you still need some way to get rid of the heat and the stock heat exchanger is not sufficient with a 180 pulley. There are lots of aftermarket heat exchangers to choose from, and based on where you live, I would recommend also getting a "secondary" heat exchanger to mount in front of the radiator (VRP sells one).

Not sure why people are saying there's something wrong with your tune. There's no evidence of a bad tune. I've heard good things about Tony at RaceIQ, but Jerry at EC is also great, so there's no reason to switch. If you do have a problem with your tune (you would need to log AFR with a wideband to find out), Jerry would be more than willing to fix it for you. Once you get the IATs under control, you might consider getting it tuned on a dyno to make sure it's perfect (you can usually get decent gains over a non-dyno tune). Assuming you don't live near EC, Jerry can do it remotely.
I do not to my knowledge have any aftermarket heat exchanger, however it is painted black. I was actually looking at getting a secondary, would this be a better option then replacing the stocker with a larger unit?

Im going to hold off on the tuning until after i get some colder weather. If the track times are still down ill look into different tuning options
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Old 10-15-2018, 12:17 PM
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IAT's seem normal for your mods. What was the ambient temp when you logged those?

The boost seems low to me. Wouldn't you expect something in the 14 psi range on a 180 pulley? Maybe measure your pulley and make sure it's what you think it is. Or add a belt wrap kit if you have belt slippage.

For reference, my car maxes out at 14psi on a stock crank and 77mm SC pulley, at sea level.
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Old 10-15-2018, 12:19 PM
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LOL at the people making tuning suggestions without the proper data logs and not taking things into consideration like da etc.

With your logs above you need to look at your cooling system. Nothing ANY tuner is going to do unless you get that under control. You are pulling a ton of timing for sure.

Make sure there isn't any air bubbles in the system and make sure the pumps are indeed working.
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Old 10-15-2018, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by JoeJErnst View Post
IAT's seem normal for your mods. What was the ambient temp when you logged those?

The boost seems low to me. Wouldn't you expect something in the 14 psi range on a 180 pulley? Maybe measure your pulley and make sure it's what you think it is. Or add a belt wrap kit if you have belt slippage.

For reference, my car maxes out at 14psi on a stock crank and 77mm SC pulley, at sea level.
Temperature during the datalog was about 86*

I was expecting to see more boost also. The car does have mid lengths and no cats or resonators however, and i hear this can cause a little lower boost readings.
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Old 10-15-2018, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by loungn14 View Post
LOL at the people making tuning suggestions without the proper data logs and not taking things into consideration like da etc.

With your logs above you need to look at your cooling system. Nothing ANY tuner is going to do unless you get that under control. You are pulling a ton of timing for sure.

Make sure there isn't any air bubbles in the system and make sure the pumps are indeed working.
Thanks for the reply. I understand that the timing being pulled will be different than OEM timing cuts after having a tune installed. My question for you is with a Eurocharged tune, at what IAT does timing begin to get pulled

Here is a video of my pump in action - this is with the car not running, not sure if that makes a difference


Last edited by Drew Durham; 10-15-2018 at 02:46 PM.
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Old 10-15-2018, 02:52 PM
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It's not based off the tuner, timing being pulled based on IAT is factory and the tuners don't adjust it. Not sure if they know how too or not.


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