E63 Timing is impossible!!!
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 369
Likes: 53
07' E63
E63 Timing is impossible!!!
I've been waiting to get my car on the road since last December. I'm finally trying to set up the timing with the proper tools again after having to shut it down after 30-40 seconds when it ran for the first time in 8 months terribly but now after I tightened all the Cam Bolts after setting the timing, I rotated the Crank several times to feel of there was any binding and all I could feel was the valves being pushed down via the the new SLS Valve Tappets and the Camshafts. My concern is after several revolutions I attempt to attach the rear Cam locking tool first and sometimes it's dead on, but most times it isn't?? It seems sometimes all will be somewhat lined up at TDC (40*) others it's slightly off. I mean I can forcefully turn the Crank slowly and catch one of the two Cams but then have to reverse sometimes in order to get both Cams locked in. Other times the front will line right up at TDC but the back doesn't?? The stress of the Valve Springs seem to be twisting the Cams and that I have to land it just right with the right force stopping at just the right spot at TDC in order to get them to land where I can place the tools on without a problem, but it's fairly rare even though it's very close? I am concerned that one or more Cams might be twisted, but then again, I'm not sure if it should be so consistent to be able to set the tools with no problem after several revolutions??
As for appearance, the Cam lobes are in surprisingly good condition, so there's no glaring reason to repair them. Also, when I went to have my Heads rebuilt, the shop (Xtreme Heads) didn't mention that there was a problem the Cams as they did with a couple springs as well as 8 of the 16 Valves that had to be replaced?
The other thing that crossed my mind is that maybe it's the timing chain? But the fact that it sometimes lands right on after several revolutions seems to DQ that possibility, hopefully that is!!
Should I be overly concerned about this?
As for the procedure, I basically took all the Cam Adjusters off first, rotated the Crank a revolution or two to load up the Chain Tensioner and then set the Crank to TDC. Install the Cam Adjusters using Brakleen and an air gun (Dustoff!!) to get to Oil off the surface of the diamond washers, Cam bolts and inside the Cams. Once the Cam Adjusters are on and secured by the Cam Bolts, I hand tighten them so the Cam Adjusters Mate properly with the face of the Cam Shafts and the back off until I can freely turn the Timing Sprockets making sure the whole time the Crank is at TDC. Then before tightening the Cam Bolts, I rotate the Crank CW 2 full revolutions to check for any binding before resting at TDC. Then tighten the Cam Bolts down double checking each time the it's at TDC, and then rotate the Crank some more to check after several revolutions if things line up as they supposedly should.
So so any thoughts you might have may be very helpful as I'm sort of hung up on whether to risk starting it again after the last fiasco!! (See my other posts for reference, if you will)...
All the best!!
As for appearance, the Cam lobes are in surprisingly good condition, so there's no glaring reason to repair them. Also, when I went to have my Heads rebuilt, the shop (Xtreme Heads) didn't mention that there was a problem the Cams as they did with a couple springs as well as 8 of the 16 Valves that had to be replaced?
The other thing that crossed my mind is that maybe it's the timing chain? But the fact that it sometimes lands right on after several revolutions seems to DQ that possibility, hopefully that is!!
Should I be overly concerned about this?
As for the procedure, I basically took all the Cam Adjusters off first, rotated the Crank a revolution or two to load up the Chain Tensioner and then set the Crank to TDC. Install the Cam Adjusters using Brakleen and an air gun (Dustoff!!) to get to Oil off the surface of the diamond washers, Cam bolts and inside the Cams. Once the Cam Adjusters are on and secured by the Cam Bolts, I hand tighten them so the Cam Adjusters Mate properly with the face of the Cam Shafts and the back off until I can freely turn the Timing Sprockets making sure the whole time the Crank is at TDC. Then before tightening the Cam Bolts, I rotate the Crank CW 2 full revolutions to check for any binding before resting at TDC. Then tighten the Cam Bolts down double checking each time the it's at TDC, and then rotate the Crank some more to check after several revolutions if things line up as they supposedly should.
So so any thoughts you might have may be very helpful as I'm sort of hung up on whether to risk starting it again after the last fiasco!! (See my other posts for reference, if you will)...
All the best!!
Last edited by E63007; Oct 14, 2018 at 11:30 AM.
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 369
Likes: 53
07' E63
Ok! When I try to get the Timing Tool to Line up with the back of the CamShafts, it occurs slightly after 40* ( at about 44*). When I get one side lined up with the tools in place, if I pop out the rear straight Plate and try to put it behind the the other sides Cams, it will be off just slightly and not line up without further manually finessing the rotation of the Crankshaft. Again when I look down at the CrankShaft, it lines up slightly right of the alignment line (i.e.-43-44*).
So I got to thinking that it may be that the Timing Chain having excessive play which is the reason I can't get the Timing Tools to line up after manually rotating the CamShaft to 40*. It would make sense after 94k mi, right? I just wish I picked up on this before taking both Heads off to be rebuilt as well as the Intake Manifold! So when I rotate the Crankshaft to 40, for example, and then rotate it back (CCW) towards 0* I carefully watch the Camshafts and stop as soon as they start to turn the othe way and notice that there's about 8-10* of play until the Cams start rotating the other way!
So this means if I set up the Cam Timing with a disconnected Crankshaft (disco'd from the Cams, that is Timing Chain Relaxed) at 40* and then tighten the Cam Adjusters down, the Cams won't start rotating until about 44-45*. So to counter this, my thinking is to set the Crankshaft at say 35* with Cam Adjusters loose. Then lightly tighten the CA's and apply approximately the same pressure one would to rotate the Cams (as measured by a torque wrench) and see if the chain stretches to 40* before the Cams move. If so, great, if not, I'll adjust accordingly. I'm thinking tightening the passenger side Cam Adjusters first would be best since the Chain Tightener is on passenger side below the Passenger side cam gear located under the alternator. This way, hopefully with some tension on the timing chain I'll be able to place the Timing tools in their slots at the back of the Cams when I approach 40* while manually turning the Crank to that position.
Is this just just crazy or should I be OK with NOT being able to line up the timing tools while the Crank is at 40* using the standard procedure?? I realize my NOT taking the extra time to do the Timing Chain when the Heads and Intake were off was in retrospect shortsighted but being it was a "new" purchase and I only drove it 12 miles before I started taking her apart almost a year ago, I'm not too PO'd at myself!!!
Any thoughts???
So I got to thinking that it may be that the Timing Chain having excessive play which is the reason I can't get the Timing Tools to line up after manually rotating the CamShaft to 40*. It would make sense after 94k mi, right? I just wish I picked up on this before taking both Heads off to be rebuilt as well as the Intake Manifold! So when I rotate the Crankshaft to 40, for example, and then rotate it back (CCW) towards 0* I carefully watch the Camshafts and stop as soon as they start to turn the othe way and notice that there's about 8-10* of play until the Cams start rotating the other way!
So this means if I set up the Cam Timing with a disconnected Crankshaft (disco'd from the Cams, that is Timing Chain Relaxed) at 40* and then tighten the Cam Adjusters down, the Cams won't start rotating until about 44-45*. So to counter this, my thinking is to set the Crankshaft at say 35* with Cam Adjusters loose. Then lightly tighten the CA's and apply approximately the same pressure one would to rotate the Cams (as measured by a torque wrench) and see if the chain stretches to 40* before the Cams move. If so, great, if not, I'll adjust accordingly. I'm thinking tightening the passenger side Cam Adjusters first would be best since the Chain Tightener is on passenger side below the Passenger side cam gear located under the alternator. This way, hopefully with some tension on the timing chain I'll be able to place the Timing tools in their slots at the back of the Cams when I approach 40* while manually turning the Crank to that position.
Is this just just crazy or should I be OK with NOT being able to line up the timing tools while the Crank is at 40* using the standard procedure?? I realize my NOT taking the extra time to do the Timing Chain when the Heads and Intake were off was in retrospect shortsighted but being it was a "new" purchase and I only drove it 12 miles before I started taking her apart almost a year ago, I'm not too PO'd at myself!!!
Any thoughts???
Last edited by E63007; Nov 12, 2018 at 01:08 AM.
Super Member
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 681
Likes: 134
Benz
I didn't fully read all that but are you using a cheap made in china tool? I have ne that the rear bar came a hair too thick so it's difficult to get in, I shaved a slight angle on it so it goes in easier.
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 369
Likes: 53
07' E63
Set the timing right, for now!!
I hate to admit it, but after setting the timing as I specified above (ie-starting at 35* with loose Cam Adjusters (CA’s) then slowly turning to 40* while applying torque to the Passenger Side Cam Bolt until it locked the CrankShaft at 40*. This tightens up the timing chain from the crank thru the Driver Side CA’s to the passenger side CA’s. While still applying torque to the Crank, I proceeded to tighten the 3 other CA’s. Afterwards, I turned the crank several complete turns of the engine until the CA’s all lined up, installed the Timing Tools and the flat bars lined up on the tears of both sets of Cams!) I ended taking the car into the Stealership as I was still nervous about something going very wrong, even though there was no binding or anything. Of course, they told me they would have to open it up to confirm the timing was in fact set properly. The pictures I provided were not sufficient, so I essentially paid $2400, for them to do this confirmation! What my issue was that because I rebuilt the entire top end, the oil had not yet reached the Valves nor had circulated in the heads, even though they had plenty of Assembly Lube. What the tech told me was this....he basically disco’d the fuel injectors electrical connectors in order to prevent fuel from being drawn in and fouling the piston, as had happened in both 7 & 8 chambers when I tried to start it causing hydrolock!!. Then he proceeded to start /turn over the car 30-40 times until he could see oil flow in the valve chamber with the Oil Cap off!!! Once he saw oil, he capped it off, reconnected the fuel injectors, and started her right up!! Defiantly a tip many of you should consider!!!
Last edited by E63007; Feb 2, 2019 at 07:22 PM.
Member
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 216
Likes: 17
From: Boerne TX
E63 and GL450, ML350 bluetec
I originally had mine timed off the first mark (0'), kicked codes so I took a look and found the 2nd white line at 40'. Runs great now, but had me scratching my head and of course I had to buy new diamond coated washers. Once you do it once you can do it in your sleep.
