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When I research headbolt, camshaft, camshaft adjuster, lifters, etc. why is it that a majority of the reports are from the W204 chassis? Was this version tuned slightly different from the factory versus the w211 M156 or do most C63 owners track/drive their car hard and tune them like crazy. I’ve had the camshaft adjuster issue around 27k miles. I’ve owned my 07 E63 for 9 years (CPO purchase 26k miles) and maintain it diligently. Currently, it’s at 65k miles and my car seems to run fine and I drive it normal. Should I be worried about this issue?
Last edited by nardeezy@yahoo.; Jun 7, 2019 at 09:38 AM.
It is a good educated guess, the C class used to be the base model AMG and was significantly cheaper than the equivalent E-class. Just like S-class is a fraction of E-class sales. You hardly see any reports of SL63 and S63 failures. Wikipedia usually has sales numbers per year, you might find it there or need to delve a bit deeper to find AMG numbers.
i'd agree more C63's were sold....most people who own C63's don't favor the E63...i'm not one of those. the C class is too small of a vehicle for me. The E63 when new was rather pricey. also, more C63's were modified in the aftermarket by their owners because new they were cheaper.
If you want exact numbers you can always contact the MB headquarters in your country. My friend was able to get the number of 211 E55s sold through each production year
At the risk of derailing the thread. Wow there is a definite difference in interior quality between the two cars. I like the C63 a lot but it's not the same experience. I do see the newest C63 still has dials on the dash which is cool, that will be considered old-school soon.
At the risk of derailing the thread. Wow there is a definite difference in interior quality between the two cars. I like the C63 a lot but it's not the same experience. I do see the newest C63 still has dials on the dash which is cool, that will be considered old-school soon.
Kids don’t lie. My friends 7 year old son at the time rode in my 07 E63 and compared to his aunts 2011 C class, he was like “your car’s way nicer uncle”. Lol
If you want exact numbers you can always contact the MB headquarters in your country. My friend was able to get the number of 211 E55s sold through each production year
i'd agree more C63's were sold....most people who own C63's don't favor the E63...i'm not one of those. the C class is too small of a vehicle for me. The E63 when new was rather pricey. also, more C63's were modified in the aftermarket by their owners because new they were cheaper.
Good point, more C63’s purchased and potentially more modified, tracked, etc. resulting in more engine stress than normal use when compared to an SL63, S63 or even E63.
2004 E55 AMG, 2006 CLS63, 2004 ML55, 2014 E350 sport
Yes you should be worried. Everyone that owns a m156 should be pulling their valve covers off and having a long hard look at the end of their cam lobes in particular the intake ones!!
On the cam issue for me its to thin or not enough oil changes, lots of cold starts!!!, and the crappy hydraulic lifters that the lesser m156 variants came with from the factory. The SLS and black series lifters are superior at holding oil for the cold start thats where this issue starts the cams are also imo cheaply manufactured! Which beggars belief when you have to pay 1k + to replace each cam + all the other **** that has to be replaced because of these issues. MB royally dropped the ball on this engine.
After seeing what iv seen it the last week with two of these engines one at 80kms and one at 163kms and hearing stories about engine rebuilders who are doing a ton of these I wouldnt touch one of these things with a barge pole.
These engines cost a ridiculous amount of money to rebuild. MB should now be atleast offering cams and buckets on the cheap for people that have these issues now as this is clearly a major fault.
Last edited by austingtir; Jun 8, 2019 at 05:53 AM.
From reading up on the M156 it looks like the engine oil type and climate which the cars are used has tons to do with issues on these engines. I watch Tasos and have messaged him a few times about my car, I have changed the oil type and weight from what MB recommends and I am not worried about my engine. My buddy who owns a older M5 found out the hard way, BMW had 10,000 mile oil changes and nothing about letting the oil get up to temp before running them hard. He lost his rod bearings which filled his vanos system with metal. He has since changed the oil type and intervals as well. At least my car shows oil temp blinking until its up to proper operating temp, his M5 doesn't from what I remember.
From reading up on the M156 it looks like the engine oil type and climate which the cars are used has tons to do with issues on these engines. I watch Tasos and have messaged him a few times about my car, I have changed the oil type and weight from what MB recommends and I am not worried about my engine. My buddy who owns a older M5 found out the hard way, BMW had 10,000 mile oil changes and nothing about letting the oil get up to temp before running them hard. He lost his rod bearings which filled his vanos system with metal. He has since changed the oil type and intervals as well. At least my car shows oil temp blinking until its up to proper operating temp, his M5 doesn't from what I remember.
wait? Dont all M cars have an Oil Temp Gauge on the Dash under the rev counter? I know my 07 MCoupe Does as well as my 02 M3.
My E55 AMG on the other hand doesn't show any Oil temps... even when trying to view it via Android Torque Pro App... It doesn't display any data as if there is no sensor for Oil temps...
wait? Dont all M cars have an Oil Temp Gauge on the Dash under the rev counter? I know my 07 MCoupe Does as well as my 02 M3.
My E55 AMG on the other hand doesn't show any Oil temps... even when trying to view it via Android Torque Pro App... It doesn't display any data as if there is no sensor for Oil temps...
Even if it has one I don't think it has any indicator that shows not to over rev until the oil is up to temp on those V10s. He drove it like he normally would, start up and race traffic to and from work.
The E63 (If you are viewing the oil temp) blinks when it is not up to operating temp. My commute is 6 miles, so I only get to enjoy the car on the weekends.
Most issues that developed with the M156 engines in the C63, is the fact that the C63 was the cheapest AMG is the line up at that time. So people are scooping them up and heavily modifying them for racing and the drag strip.
Most E63 owners choose not to modify their cars, or slightly modify in my case. If one drives their M156 normally with regular maintenance, in most cases they have very little or no issues like me.
I can't speak for all owners, but I can say that I've owned three M156 equipped AMG over the years, and none of them had engine issues. Also keep in mind that this isn't, a wide spread issues effecting all M156 engines.
Can't really compare AMG to M-Power because AMG always wins. With the growing pains of developing production daily use engines the issues that arise still are eclipsed by the sheer negligence of BMW and thus M-Power given their years of experience. They could build a reliable engine, but they don't care to.
2004 E55 AMG, 2006 CLS63, 2004 ML55, 2014 E350 sport
If you guys havent pulled your valve covers and atleast had a look first hand I think many of you may eventually regret it.
These engines are only going to get worse and worse for this issue. MB has never actually fixed the issues.
They should do away with the base model m156 lifters and only sell sls or black series lifters as they are meant to hold oil for the cold start better. And they should fix the cams so they cant wear through as easily. All m156's should get the rev on cold start deleted.
As I said I had one engine at 163 and the other was at 80kms. It can happen at damn near any kms with obviously the more kms being more likely to show signs of the issue.
Heres pics of the intake lobes on a 163km engine. Once they get to this stage its just a matter of time until it gets worn down enough to start wearing through the bucket and eventually drop the valve if someone doesnt take a look. This car was only barely showing a tick that was barely audible for about 10seconds on startup. Alot of people would ignore it as an injector tick its not.
Can't really compare AMG to M-Power because AMG always wins. With the growing pains of developing production daily use engines the issues that arise still are eclipsed by the sheer negligence of BMW and thus M-Power given their years of experience. They could build a reliable engine, but they don't care to.
I thought rods and bearings were regular maintenance items haha.
I am too taking the risk and not changing head bolts yet. One part of me wants to get them replaced, but it is pricey. Maybe one day... Hearing from Yuille36 who have had 3 M156 without issues instills some peace of mind.
My personal opinion is that anyone who thinks changing oil every 10-15K on any car, especially on a German car, is a great idea is out of mind.
There is a Russian blogger who puts forward a theory that manufacturers make gearboxes with 7, 8, or even 10 gears to keep the RPMs low and reduce environmental footprint. But low RPMs result in oil starvation as there is not enough pressure for the oil to get to the upper part of the engine. He recommends we use paddle shifters to always keep RPMs between 2500-3000 to maintain enough oil pressure. What do you guys think of this theory? Could this be the reason why lifters and camshaft don't get enough oil and scratch each other? Does our E63 has any electric oil pump?
2004 E55 AMG, 2006 CLS63, 2004 ML55, 2014 E350 sport
^^ Nope I dont agree at all. The M156 cam issue is a cold start wear issue / hydraulic lifter fault / muck metal cam issue 100%. Its usually only the inlet cams so the oil drains down to the exhaust cams which is why they dont have as bad an issue with wear. And then the hydraulic lifters with the standard m156 lifters being inferior in a couple of ways to the SLS and Black Series lifter especially their ability to hold oil in them for the cold starts.
The oil pumps on these amgs are bloody huge I cant see them lacking capacity at idle or any other condition.
And for OP question about why the c63 seems to have more issues with this. I would think they probably built more c63's than any other platform this motor was put in. I think its that simple. Also possibly c63's might be more likely to be daily drivers for alot of people.
Last edited by austingtir; Jun 11, 2019 at 11:51 PM.
Gravity pulls the oil down hill where the exhaust cams are located in the cylinder heads, so they are always sitting in oil. The intake cams are another issue, as oil needs to be squirted onto them for lubrication. So the oil needs to make it from the pan to the top of the cylinder heads to prevent wear. This is where the most wear occurs, because on immediate start up, there is no oil at the top of the cylinder heads. It would be nice if AMG designed an auxiliary electric pump just for that function, to kick on a few seconds before ignition.
I can honestly say, that when I had the valve cover off to replace leaking valve cover gaskets, the cams had typically wear for car with 83K miles.
Last edited by Yuille36; Jun 12, 2019 at 11:37 AM.
2004 E55 AMG, 2006 CLS63, 2004 ML55, 2014 E350 sport
People need to look at them closely its actually kinda easy to miss or dismiss if you dont know what your looking for. You can see in my photo above the inlet cam lobe directly next to the one with pitting doesnt look bad at all. When checking this people need to rotate the engine by hand and look at every intake lobe point.
When I initially looked at the 163km intake cams they looked passable but when I rotated the engine I saw a couple of lobes that were very suspect as above in the pic.
Thank you for posting this info! I’ll be taking my covers off this weekend to replace the valve cover gaskets, cleaning the intake manifold if needed, and new fuel injectors; and i will certainly inspect these. Appreciate the advice.
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