psotnic

Hey,

Hope to get you guys with knowledge and experience with these engines involved any insight/suggestion/tought will be helpful. Thanks

Basic idea is to put the SC from the M113k on a M113 engine keeping the same higher compression ratio and add two mechanical turbos underneath to pull the air out of the motor and fill the SC.
The M113 engine is completely dissasembled, the block sleeved and reinforced from open to semi-closed, heads ported, crankshaft lightened.
Yes, I have the original AMG engine harness and the ECU will be flashed to M113.994 DTM before tune.

PROBLEMS: M113 Internals

CONNECTING RODS: In order to make sure this does not blow up, I have to change the weak stock rods which supposedly fail at 800hp crank due to the oiling port. A few options that I have is either use the AMG rods for twhich I do not know the peak hp before they fail or go with the custom H-type rods altogether. Presuming I have to go custom I can use the AMG measures which have been done in the past as even though they are 0.28mm shorter I would only need to lower the heads to get the same compression back.

PISTONS: I presume the stock will also not be up for the job and the AMG pistons are not an option due to the different stroke.
Did anyone make a forget piston for a M113? Custom? Which company?

If anyone has pistons/rods that I might be able to use laying around at home or workshop please let me know.

MODS

Engine & Exhaust:

reinforced block, sleeved block, lighter crank, ported heads, race cams, arp head & stud bolts, all billet pulleys w/ 180mm crank pulley, belt wrap, billet motor mounts, ported supercharger, 90mm throttle body, modified supercharger intercooler, 3.5" CAI behind front grill, AEM fuel pumps, looped & modified fuel rail - center fuel inlet, 550cc injectors, split cooling w/ extra hi-flow pump, additional front cooling tank, bigger front intercooler /w additional intercooler, bigger front oil cooler, killer chiller, crank vent, oil catch can, thermalnator gaskets, magnecor spark wires, ngk one step colder spark plugs, cooler thermostat, long tube headers, x-pipe, no cats, 4" borla xr-1,....

Transmission:

7G-Tronic w/ stronger internals, speedshift kit, larger billet trans pan, 3k stall, quaife lsd, 3.06 ring and pinion, race trans mount, cnc flex shaft covers

WISHES:

billet cnc fuel rail (have a cnc machine available if anyone can provide needed measurments and/or drawing to put in solidworks)

CHANGES: (so far)

550cc injectors to 750cc+

SICAMG

Custom pistons from J&E will run about $1,700.00.
Your injectors will be way to small....750cc and up is needed.
Billet rods from Weistec are $3,000.00 but more than likely be had cheaper if you bypass them.
Or...send rods out to be Cryogenicly treated to move horsepower up.

psotnic

If J&E custom pistons will be ok and they are only $1700 that is a no brainer. So you were thinking of getting used amg rods with no oiling ports and threat those. Any idea who does that or what price range are we talking about? Yes, the Weistec rods are a little bit absurd if they were around the J&E custom piston range I would already have them with the rest. Paying for something is one thing paying more than it is worth....

Vepracing reached out to me supposedly they have H-type rods for the 55 engine at a fraction of the Weistec price problem is they are Chinese and I do not really trust putting that in risking blowing everything up.

750cc+....check

SICAMG

Just looked on VRP and there is no number to call for info or anything so the rods may be cheap but most come from china for the US distribution. They are 4340 as well and sold a lot .
It's $100.00 to treat rods but you should first consider the HP you are looking for and rpm range.
My build will consist of a sleeved block, very light blower pistons and stock rods worked over only because one....when has a rod ever let go in a 55 ???. Two with the ARP bolts and having rods treated I would be very confident with them. So for me 150 nitrous shot and 18lb's of boost and the engine should make around 725-775 crank hp.

VictoryRoadPerformance

We have rods and pistons and would be happy to help you with this entire project. Shoot Us an Email and i can give you more detail. You will want K camshafts aswell.

psotnic

Viktor, owner @VEP Racing wrote me the following:

1.Materials is high tensile SAE 4340 forged steel.
2.Each rod is multi-stage heat-treated.
3.X-rayed.
4.Sonic-tested.
5.Magnafluxed.
6.All surfaces are 100 percent CNC machined.
7.Shot-peened to stress-relieve the metal.
8.Precision cap alignment sleeves to positively locate each rod cap.
9.Alloyed bronze bushings fit for floating piston pin.
10. Hardness is HRC33-38.
11.Bolts tensile strength with 228,500 psi.
12.Weight tolerance: Balanced to +/- 1 gram in set.
13.Rated horse power 250hp per cylinder
14. Rated 10000RPM


If all of this really applys to his custom rods they should be fine. And about the production of the rods to be sold on US market you are right they are mostly made in China.

Company stating "We are professional high performance and high quality racing maker, we supply our rods to Brian Crower and JEDD PACKARD". I do not know any of these to verify the supply and the quality.

The crankshaft should be good for 10.500rpm if I wanted to go that high. HP range aiming, no idea the more the better.

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psotnic

Sulaco

Why 7g tronic? Is that the one that's torque-limited and preventing the TT m157 cars from getting into the 10s?

SICAMG

Wow !!! who did the work on that crank?
Better make sure your pistons are light because you will end up adding heavy metal to it and you don't want that !!

psotnic

The torque limit will not be an issue will move that and the 7G-tronic because of a slightly better end speed.

psotnic

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psotnic

The crank was done in Europe by a friend of mine, should do the trick. The pistons like you said I am still tying to figure out what/who to go with.

SICAMG

Call Ross pistons....they will give you the scoop on there custom pistons. $1,600.00 when I called or, Weistec has them in stock coated and everything for 2,100.00 so not much more than Ross with out coating and that push's the price up pretty close to Weistec.

psotnic

Problem is, for the piston I can not go stock amg with my build as the m113k pistons have a different stroke which basically leaves me only with custom. Will shoot ross pistons and email see what they offer.

E55Greasemonkey

How are you planning on getting the 722.9 trans to work in this setup? Tuning the engine will also be another hurdle.

psotnic

It was on the car already and I did not feel I would gain anything by trying to replace it for a 722.6.

E55Greasemonkey

Confused.....what year and model car is this?

psotnic

It is my fault, I only wrote m113 to m113k but forgot to explain the original vehicle is a 06 5.0 W219 so the SC and everything connected goes in this car.

whipplem104

Just a couple of notes. One you cannot spin an automatic transmission to 10k rpm. It will fail. The pumps are not designed to do this and most of the lubrication circuit and if any components are in overun then they could be moving so fast that they explode. Also speed sensors most likely will not work at such a high RPM and it will go into limp. And it will go into limp way before that. I am not saying this wont work for a few seconds maybe. But probably not. Almost 100%.
2. you cannot remove tq limitations or the transmission will fail. You can allow more input output tq but tq reduction needs to be allowed to work during shifts or the transmission will fail in about 2ms.
3. On your engine. Send a sample piston and rod out to be profiled and designed for your project. Give them specs on the cylinder walls and requirements and just have them made for you. It does not really cost any more to do this than buying off the shelf parts. It just takes longer. And you get to be in charge of the design requirements rather than what someone else specified.

Sulaco

I think he was using 10k RPM's as the mark of "this is how good these pistons are" but has no intention of reaching those RPMs

similar to how you might by a transmission rated for 1000hp but you only plan to send 800hp through it, you know it will hold up fine and be reliable

psotnic

I agree with you best thing going custom pistons just for this build and like you said the prices are pretty normal considering if you only buy OEM pistons rings it would cost you around $1000. Regarding the transmission who knows exactly what would happen at 10.000rpm I was shooting for 2.000rpm more than stock with is already a lot and the transmission and torque converter were rebuilt keeping this in mind. Sensors....also cant say how they are gonna be acting. I will dyno and tune it with little steps to see where I am and then go from there. There is always time to blow it up I am not eager to do it on the first run.

EDgineered

Blackbenzz, aka East Coast Euro did a lot of work on a record setting clk55. Custom rods, pistons, and sleeves.
https://eastcoasteuro.com/

This dude has a channel and has done alot with a Turbo/Supercharger setup. He has had multiple setups on this car, wealth of info.

whipplem104

There are lots of other things to consider to rev high besides a knife edged well balanced crank. Piston and rod weight, Bore, stroke, rod ratio etc. to get the right piston speed. Oiling is huge in the crank to keep the oil on the bearings and then oil return is huge to get the oil back down into the sump.
My point really is that you cannot piece together parts for the obvious and somewhat stated goals of this project. This needs to be a plan and everything needs to be done together to achieve that plan. And 8k is still pretty high for an automatic for more than a few milliseconds. It can be done but it is not run of the mill.
I have not done to much with the 722.9s but I have spent a decade working racing applications in the 722.6 and others and can tell you that sustained high rpm is not a given.
Anyways cool project hope it goes well.
I like CP Carillo for my stuff but there are obviously others,

psotnic

Ok, quick update I managed to get the 7g working with the m113k without any major coding issues or any mechanical changes to fit the two. Performance and endurance wise I can not say yet as the car is still in learning mode and have not done more than a few miles due to engine being rebuilt from ground up so I am still on a lookout for any leaks/issues, but it shifts nice! Now moving forward to address the fuel issue as it misfires on WOT....will keep you guys posted!

Ls1toAMG

If your wanting to build 800 hp m113 engine why use the stock supercharger. It's been pushed 1000's of times to it's limits with a stock motor.