CynCarvin32

Now MKB did exist before 1991 but they were not working on MB's in the way you see now. They completely changed their market and area of expertise.

From MKB's Webpage:

With the take over of the company in 1991 by Panagiotis Avramidis – who until then had worked in the AMG racing team – MKB began to concentrate on tuning top class automobiles. His experience at AMG in building engines for the DTM predestined him to become a driving force in the Mercedes tuning sector.

From RENNtech webpage:

When Hartmut Feyhl founded RENNTech, Inc., in 1989, it was inevitable that he would become the foremost authority on aftermarket Mercedes-Benz tuning. With more than 20 years of experience as an award-winning automotive engineer, his uncanny ability to elevate the performance of a Mercedes-Benz to its maximum


Now both firms are great companies but this idea of RENNtech just buying thier parts and selling them is a joke. Its not true at all. Hard to sell their parts when they were not open for business.

I would put both MKB parts and RENNtech parts on my car for both are great companies. One happens to be a few thousand miles closer that’s all.

Chicken and egg....

schwarzwagen

I guess we should not argue with you according to your sig. Isn't that right?

Sleestack

Your logic is astounding. The fact that MKB was founded after Renntech has nothing to do with whether or not Renntech could have been sourcing some parts from MKB or vice versa during the last 13 years. Furthermore, I definitely didn't say that all Renntech does is resell 3rd party parts.

Arnee

Very true... for the extra $1k, I wouldn't risk it with the E55...

BTW, I've seen what an unbalanced crankshaft pulley does to the bottom end... it basically rips the damned woodruff key apart and the notch on the crank itself, requiring an entire bottom-end overhaul -- not pretty.

schwarzwagen

The "real rocket scientists" work at both MKB and Renntech. If you are collabrating with your brother on a school project, why shouldn't you be allowed to put your name on it...

Nice work, you should go work for the Kerry campaign.

EWCIII2001

Would Evo headers and the Renntech package be a good way to go, and what HP increase might that result in? Also, for those who have modded, what are your feelings as to whether it was worth the cost and how the extra speed affects the driving experience?

E55_POWER

Great point! I was thinking the same...

It's unfortunate this thread turned out to be a flamefest and we kinda got away from the manin objective of the thread.

For me, like I said, I chose Renntech due to the comfort level I got from Bob. It didn't have anything to do with the fact that it was $1K more than both Kleemann or Evo. I presonally do know someone that had a Kleemann blower in his CLK430 and the motor blew...funny thing is the SC still worked. Don't exactly know if Kleemann ever did take care of the "tab" to fix the motor, etc. This had no bearing whatsoever in my decision...they just didn't have the pulley kit in stock when I was making my decision.

Good luck everyone, in your quest to find the "right" tuner for you...I think I found mine.

Sleestack

WTF are you talking about? I say real rocket scientists, b/c one of the founders was literally a rocket scientist. Collaborating? I'm not sure if it was a collaboration or an OEM relationship, but somehow you seem to know for sure? My understanding was that at one point in time MKB was an OEM for several tuners, including Renntech. That isn't saying Renntech didn't develop their own products. Nor am I saying that the relationship continues to exist. Why is it an issue that they, at one point in time, might not have done all of their own product development?

I'm not even criticizing Renntech here so I'm not sure why people are getting upset. My only point was that there are other fully capable MB tuners out there and the fact that Renntech might bash on Powerchips doesn't mean a whole lot. I have MKB, Kleemann and Evosport products in my cars and have had no problems and great results.

rcalcaide

They had a search feature. And if you typed in Renntech, it would list all the parts they made for Renntech; engine internals, etc...

Also back in 03' I spoke to Bob Brady, about getting some stuff for my C32. I said I was interested in the headers, downpipes and metal cats for my car which MKB makes. he said, he could get them, but they are hard to fit, and wouldn't pass emissions. and he knew they were from MKB. he suggested I just go with the pulley and chip.

Go onto the MKB website, and read under "press", "Avramidis principles". on page six there is a paragraph called "out of the shadows". in the paragraph it states

"They even supplied well known tuners like Carlsson, Lorinser AND RENNTECH who sold these motors under their own labels.""

http://mkb-power.de/pages_en/press/a...inciple_1.html


YES, the real- rocket scientists are at MKB.

Cyncarvin LOVES his Renntech. thats cool... RENNTECH loves his money...

JAYCL600

I believe Evotech in Germany does Renntechs ECU tuning....Renntech also has a second part to their business www.evotechusa.com hit contact us

houston

I've been told that adding stage I is just about all u need to do really. ECU and pulley is the most effective for now i guess. well anyways i've been told that if u add the headers, sure u'll get extra HP's but it's not even worth it cuz the headers do not make any difference on ur 1/4 nor 0-60 becuz headers affect after 140mph (i think can't remember but close anyways) so during the 1/4, the trap speed don't even get that high anyways.
( can anyone confirm this? )

if the extra few grand for headers gives me no true or no better 0-60 or 1/4 mile numbers, why waste the extra doe unless u want HP braggin rights!

This could be bogus, this could be fact, i have no idea, i leave it to your imaginations, but would like a response to this if anyone knows or heard of the same or something. thx

CynCarvin32

EvoTech is RENNtechs non MB tuning line. They now do mini's 996's 360's etc.

As for the Mercedes Benz Mag. article which said they supply parts to them, the owner of the firms say its not true so well I will go with them not what some 6x a year british car mag says. That mag is nice but it just a place to look at MB's. It is far from non biased.

otoupalik

This is not true. For the ECU, we are the ONLY company that uses Powerchip.

Thanks

Brad

E55 POWER

Go with Evosport, they are more agresive.

Regards,
Manuel

Lucas

The Kleemann Headers makes huge HP (+50) and TQ improvement over the whole rpm range on a SC engine, but the TQ improvement is absolutely the best in the mid range and will of cause change the 0-60 and 1/4 mile.
The headers will give the same improvement as pulley and ECU, which is a completely different car to drive.

Get a dyno chart at info@kleemannusa.com

Koster

First of all Im not flaming Evosport, but how do they come up with the HP and torque numbers quoted in the add.
Power Gains (CA 91 Octane):
- +3 lbs Boost (0.2 bar)
- Gains: 45+ HP, 55 ft-lbs.
- 550 HP, 613 ft-lbs.
Even going with the SL55 AMG for ex. I come up with 538HP and 571 lb.tq.
Secondly, will the ECU exchange void factory warranty with either company. I believe I have read that Renntech has own warranty, which takes over factory.
I havent seen this previous question answered.

AMG FANATIC

Good advice : phone both Evosport and Renntech, and asks for references of their customers. Then take a test drive in the customers's cars and decide for yourself.

Marcus Frost

They show a stock E55 dyno in the comparison, which did 420rwhp... that should translate to roughly 510hp at the crank, but they may be using more conservative drivetrain loss figures. With 18% loss, which is very reasonable, and some might say even too reasonable, it translates to 512hp at the crank. They are measuring their gains off of that. With their stage 1 it looks like they peak around 460rwhp, which is ~560hp at the crank. 560-512 = 48hp gain.

If they measured against stock ratings, you would be looking at a 93hp increase

-m

otoupalik

It is very simple - we use REAL dyno numbers, not those quoted by Mercedes. The Gains we saw are the real gains before and after on our own Dynojet 248c.

No flame taken, hope that helps. We certianly can provide refereences and dyno sheets without problem!

Neither will void the factory warranty unless the mod creates a problem that you are trying to cover. Everything we sell has an equiv. warranty to RENNtech. Nearly every high-end shop only sells products and labor with the same warranty. This is nothing special to RENNtech or evosport.

Both are good companies with good products, we just feel that our package is a better value - offering more power for less money.

Thanks

Brad

ThemisN

I think that is where the concern is though. If the mod creates a problem, and the dealer will not repair it due to the mod, will both Evo and Renntech pay for the repair? I thought that Renntech would cover it, but I may be mistaken.

Ideally, I would love to see an aftermarket vendor work with Merc the way Dinan works with BMW so that their mods do not affect warranty. The premium you pay there is well worth the peace of mind.

JLee81

I brought up the warranty paper that RENNtech sent me.
The service manager brought it up to a person who deals with MB warranty.
He came back and gave me the answer that RENNtech will cover the warranty for 2 years or for the rest of MB warranty period, which ever is better I guess. It's your choice. HPS also has this option even though E55 don't need their s/c.

otoupalik

The first answer is YES. If a mod we manufacture creates a problem, we will cover it. If a modification we distribute (other manufacturer) we will work with you within the manufacturers warranty. I think this is the same among most top companies.

As for Dinan, the marketing of thier warranty integration is not the real situation. Each dealer may choose to service the Dinan warranty, then Dinan pays the dealer. I have a number of customers who have bought Dinan mods, and at the same dealership had their BMW warranty attempted to be made VOID due to damage from the mod. Net/net - there is no relationship with BMW NA, it is only with privately owned dealerships (anyone can call BMW NA to verify this.)

We have the EXACT same relationship with an increasing number of BMW dealers, the largest being Cunningham BMW in San Diego. These dealers will service a warranty on evosport product, and we will pay Cunningham under the warranty.

Again, the issues of warranty is pretty equiv. among good companies, it is just that some companies use false imformation to create a perceived benefit that you can only get with them, which is not true.

As far as I know, RENNtech, evosport, HPS, etc. will all give you a warranty.

Yes, we are a 5 year old company and RENNtech is 4x that. Cannot appologize for that, it is what it is. However, a year old company is far from an upstart and any company that can survive for 5 of the worst economic times we have seen certainly must display some stability. Our goal is to evolutionize products and serive (hence our name - EVO - sport). Nothing new ever comes into a marketplace without innovation and competition. Remember what peopel said to Bill Gates?

Thanks

Brad

ThemisN

Thanks for the clarification Brad.

Are you planning on creating the same type of relationship with some MB dealers? That would most certainly set you apart from the competitors.

otoupalik

Yes, there are some that are close, but due to confidentiality I cannot release the names yet. Of course, these will start in SoCal.

Again, my posts are not to start anythign negative. I just wanted to clarify a few things that may be not so clear to some.

Thanks

Brad

BTW - For whatever it is worth, I was at the MKB factory in 2002 where many products were being produced and readied for shipping to a certain company. As MKB products are excellent, I am not sure why there is such a flame war over this, but nothing on this forum surprises me anymore.

CynCarvin32

While you may have done well during the last 5 years Brad I honestly think your comment about this being some of the worst economic time we have seen as misinformtion. If this is what you call tough times you need to analyze some of the past economic down turns and see what a real recession involves. When the economy really gets turned on its head you don’t see Los Angeles in a sea of 20 inch wheels and you don’t see an average of 10-15 AMG Mercedes when you drive to work and back (and these are not cheap AMG's either). To be honest you opened shop at what I think would be the best time possible to start a car tuning business.


You have done well but 1989 was a far more difficult time to start a business than 2000. October 17th 1989 was a rough day.