smaller sc pulley require cooling mods?
12-28-2020, 11:48 PM
#1
Junior Member
Thread Starter
smaller sc pulley require cooling mods?
my 03 e55 amg has headers, everything else is stock. want to get a smaller sc pulley and tune, also am going to get the bosch 010 pump, wondering how small i can go without any other cooling upgrades, dont drive track just want more power around town and driving with friends
12-29-2020, 11:47 AM
#2
Super Member
If you're going to do the pump, I'd highly recommend a larger heat exchanger. It's not that expensive or hard to do along with the pump replacement.
Rule of thumb was 83mm is the smallest you'd want to go with bone stock cooling, but you have headers too (which could be a wash - better breathing but also running more power up top).
These cars need better cooling in stock form as it is. Your's being an 03 - has your Valeo radiator been swapped out? If not you may need to add that to the list (research transmission problems related to 03 Valeo radiators).
Rule of thumb was 83mm is the smallest you'd want to go with bone stock cooling, but you have headers too (which could be a wash - better breathing but also running more power up top).
These cars need better cooling in stock form as it is. Your's being an 03 - has your Valeo radiator been swapped out? If not you may need to add that to the list (research transmission problems related to 03 Valeo radiators).
12-29-2020, 12:27 PM
#3
Junior Member
Thread Starter
If you're going to do the pump, I'd highly recommend a larger heat exchanger. It's not that expensive or hard to do along with the pump replacement.
Rule of thumb was 83mm is the smallest you'd want to go with bone stock cooling, but you have headers too (which could be a wash - better breathing but also running more power up top).
These cars need better cooling in stock form as it is. Your's being an 03 - has your Valeo radiator been swapped out? If not you may need to add that to the list (research transmission problems related to 03 Valeo radiators).
Rule of thumb was 83mm is the smallest you'd want to go with bone stock cooling, but you have headers too (which could be a wash - better breathing but also running more power up top).
These cars need better cooling in stock form as it is. Your's being an 03 - has your Valeo radiator been swapped out? If not you may need to add that to the list (research transmission problems related to 03 Valeo radiators).
so if i run an xl heat exchanger and bosch pump will that allow me to run a 76 mm pulley and stay cool?
12-29-2020, 12:42 PM
#4
Super Member
I would think so. I run a 76mm pulley w/ XL exchanger, injectors*, and 010 pump, no problems at all. The tune should have the pump running all the time which helps, and I've done the -10 mod in STAR to get fans to kick on sooner. I'm also in a colder climate, not sure where you are located but that helps as well.
*Injectors - talk to your tuner, you may need to upgrade with those mods to the 550cc injectors (or larger depending on any future modding plans).
*Injectors - talk to your tuner, you may need to upgrade with those mods to the 550cc injectors (or larger depending on any future modding plans).
12-29-2020, 12:49 PM
#5
Junior Member
Thread Starter
I would think so. I run a 76mm pulley w/ XL exchanger, injectors*, and 010 pump, no problems at all. The tune should have the pump running all the time which helps, and I've done the -10 mod in STAR to get fans to kick on sooner. I'm also in a colder climate, not sure where you are located but that helps as well.
*Injectors - talk to your tuner, you may need to upgrade with those mods to the 550cc injectors (or larger depending on any future modding plans).
*Injectors - talk to your tuner, you may need to upgrade with those mods to the 550cc injectors (or larger depending on any future modding plans).
12-29-2020, 01:00 PM
#6
Super Member
Yeah, it's plenty fast 
Basically limited by traction and tires at this point, however I also want to do headers at some point down the road to help some top end (and move some of the torque band further up, and make a little more noise!).
Basically limited by traction and tires at this point, however I also want to do headers at some point down the road to help some top end (and move some of the torque band further up, and make a little more noise!).
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12-29-2020, 11:59 PM
#8
MBWorld Fanatic!
my 03 e55 amg has headers, everything else is stock. want to get a smaller sc pulley and tune, also am going to get the bosch 010 pump, wondering how small i can go without any other cooling upgrades, dont drive track just want more power around town and driving with friends
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Kyle Harris (12-30-2020)
12-30-2020, 12:04 AM
#9
Junior Member
Thread Starter
[QUOTE=Ls1toAMG;8235402]I ran a clutched 84mm 5 years with stock cooling and it was fine. Smaller than that you will need cooling. As for injectors go larger when your close to 500whp. You will be in that range with a 76. So any more mods after the pulley definatly do injectors. I'm considering them myself because my fuel system is factory original.[/QUOTE
i decided on dialing in my cooling system with an xl heat exchanger and bosch 010 pump first. im not 100% sure what size pulley ill do but i figure that will handle whatever i do... i might just do an 80mm but either way now that i understand how the cooling works i think i cant go wrong with getting it dialed in
i decided on dialing in my cooling system with an xl heat exchanger and bosch 010 pump first. im not 100% sure what size pulley ill do but i figure that will handle whatever i do... i might just do an 80mm but either way now that i understand how the cooling works i think i cant go wrong with getting it dialed in
12-30-2020, 06:15 PM
#10
This why i don't post anymore on groups and forums so much miss information said.Only way you need injectors is to check your idc not my saying hp..Not all every combo and car is the same at times.A 77mm,tune headers and stock t.b will get you 76% duty cycle.
Fyi to some i made 530 whp stock injectors and was at 85%,,
Fyi to some i made 530 whp stock injectors and was at 85%,,
12-30-2020, 06:17 PM
#11
Junior Member
Thread Starter
This why i don't post anymore on groups and forums so much miss information said.Only way you need injectors is to check your idc not my saying hp..Not all every combo and car is the same at times.A 77mm,tune headers and stock t.b will get you 76% duty cycle.
Fyi to some i made 530 whp stock injectors and was at 85%,,
Fyi to some i made 530 whp stock injectors and was at 85%,,
what does a duty cycle mean
12-30-2020, 06:18 PM
#12
MBWorld Fanatic!
This why i don't post anymore on groups and forums so much miss information said.Only way you need injectors is to check your idc not my saying hp..Not all every combo and car is the same at times.A 77mm,tune headers and stock t.b will get you 76% duty cycle.
Fyi to some i made 530 whp stock injectors and was at 85%,,
Fyi to some i made 530 whp stock injectors and was at 85%,,
12-30-2020, 06:25 PM
#13
Super Member
This why i don't post anymore on groups and forums so much miss information said.Only way you need injectors is to check your idc not my saying hp..Not all every combo and car is the same at times.A 77mm,tune headers and stock t.b will get you 76% duty cycle.
Fyi to some i made 530 whp stock injectors and was at 85%,,
Fyi to some i made 530 whp stock injectors and was at 85%,,
12-30-2020, 06:31 PM
#14
Many general rules on here are just repeated things with zero things proven..
Check the idc that's the correct way to gauge it not saying a horsepower..Also stock cooling a 77 mm can be fine if someone does a pull here and there not 4 back to back.There many ways to fix cooling ait issues on this car like the stage 1 pull back .
12-31-2020, 10:33 AM
#15
Hi Kyle and welcome. (IPW) = injector pulse width.
If a fuel injector is activated for 15 ms (the IPW) at 3000 rpm the duty cycle is 37.5% (15 ms/40 ms), or rpm times IPW divided by 1200 equals IDC in percent. If an injector is powered for 15 ms at 6000 rpm, then IDC is 75% (15 ms/20 ms). Anything over 85% and you run the risk of the injector not being able to supply the fuel demand and running lean will be the result.
Larger injectors can flow the same amount of fuel at a lower duty cycle compared to a smaller (flow rate) fuel injector.
Hope this helps.
If a fuel injector is activated for 15 ms (the IPW) at 3000 rpm the duty cycle is 37.5% (15 ms/40 ms), or rpm times IPW divided by 1200 equals IDC in percent. If an injector is powered for 15 ms at 6000 rpm, then IDC is 75% (15 ms/20 ms). Anything over 85% and you run the risk of the injector not being able to supply the fuel demand and running lean will be the result.
Larger injectors can flow the same amount of fuel at a lower duty cycle compared to a smaller (flow rate) fuel injector.
Hope this helps.
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fazxs (01-01-2021)
01-01-2021, 02:55 AM
#17
Junior Member
Thread Starter
01-01-2021, 01:08 PM
#19
Junior Member
Thread Starter
01-01-2021, 01:08 PM
#20
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Kyle Harris (01-01-2021)
01-01-2021, 08:04 PM
#21
If it's moving, temps come down.
It's either the result of a prior cooling system issue or the faulty work I had done.
Just another thing to add to the list of problems that need to be addressed.
Power-wise, just a pulley and tune is like night and day.
01-01-2021, 08:15 PM
#22
Super Member
I have this car in extremely hot environments and the idling temperatures seem to be too high, before and after the mods: 010 pump, split cooling/heat exchanger, pulley, tune, new radiator, etc.
If it's moving, temps come down.
It's either the result of a prior cooling system issue or the faulty work I had done.
Just another thing to add to the list of problems that need to be addressed.
Power-wise, just a pulley and tune is like night and day.
If it's moving, temps come down.
It's either the result of a prior cooling system issue or the faulty work I had done.
Just another thing to add to the list of problems that need to be addressed.
Power-wise, just a pulley and tune is like night and day.
One easy thing to check if you haven't - pull the fan plug connector on the passenger side and look for corrosion at the connector.
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Ls1toAMG (01-01-2021)
01-01-2021, 10:04 PM
#23
MBWorld Fanatic!
Even with the upgraded 010 pump and larger HE the W220 came with from the factory, I still experienced inconsistent power delivery with a 77mm SCP. It would be phenomenal power one pull and then a dramatic reduction in power right after.
IMHO, a stock cooling system (with a 010 pump) works well with the stock SCP. Anything more aggressive and cooling upgrades are needed.
The car was converted back to stock and recently sold. I now have a nice cache of performance parts awaiting an E55 or CLS55 replacement and the very first step for me will be upgrading anything I possibly can in the cooling system.
IMHO, a stock cooling system (with a 010 pump) works well with the stock SCP. Anything more aggressive and cooling upgrades are needed.
The car was converted back to stock and recently sold. I now have a nice cache of performance parts awaiting an E55 or CLS55 replacement and the very first step for me will be upgrading anything I possibly can in the cooling system.
01-02-2021, 09:43 AM
#24
Even with the upgraded 010 pump and larger HE the W220 came with from the factory, I still experienced inconsistent power delivery with a 77mm SCP. It would be phenomenal power one pull and then a dramatic reduction in power right after.
IMHO, a stock cooling system (with a 010 pump) works well with the stock SCP. Anything more aggressive and cooling upgrades are needed.
The car was converted back to stock and recently sold. I now have a nice cache of performance parts awaiting an E55 or CLS55 replacement and the very first step for me will be upgrading anything I possibly can in the cooling system.
IMHO, a stock cooling system (with a 010 pump) works well with the stock SCP. Anything more aggressive and cooling upgrades are needed.
The car was converted back to stock and recently sold. I now have a nice cache of performance parts awaiting an E55 or CLS55 replacement and the very first step for me will be upgrading anything I possibly can in the cooling system.
exactly correct.
01-03-2021, 12:46 PM
#25
Junior Member
Thread Starter
If you're going to do the pump, I'd highly recommend a larger heat exchanger. It's not that expensive or hard to do along with the pump replacement.
Rule of thumb was 83mm is the smallest you'd want to go with bone stock cooling, but you have headers too (which could be a wash - better breathing but also running more power up top).
These cars need better cooling in stock form as it is. Your's being an 03 - has your Valeo radiator been swapped out? If not you may need to add that to the list (research transmission problems related to 03 Valeo radiators).
Rule of thumb was 83mm is the smallest you'd want to go with bone stock cooling, but you have headers too (which could be a wash - better breathing but also running more power up top).
These cars need better cooling in stock form as it is. Your's being an 03 - has your Valeo radiator been swapped out? If not you may need to add that to the list (research transmission problems related to 03 Valeo radiators).
when you say i have headers so it could be a wash, what does that mean? do headers help keep the temp of the supercharger down?
also, i checked my radiator, its a nissens that was swapped in 2013
Last edited by Kyle Harris; 01-03-2021 at 12:49 PM.
