w211e63leo

Hello everyone my name is Leo. I have a 2008 W211 E63 AMG and I am in need of dire help. So while I was driving, I hit the click (the button at the end of the accelerator pedal) in 3rd gear and went until just before redline and released the gas because I saw a cop. My car proceeded to shift at this exact moment and my car did some sort of "stall" where it got stuck between gears. My engine then shut off and all the lights came on in the dash. I tried to crank it but it sounded like it was extremely out of timing. I had the car towed and the next day I opened the valve covers. Now you will not believe this but I am serious, the driver side intake camshaft was destroyed and definitely needed replacing but the crazy part was one of my camshaft followers aka lifter/tappet etc. was MISSING. It was just not there. Completely gone. Now tomorrow I'm going to put a camera in the combustion chamber to see if its in there but if it is, and it caused damage to the cylinder head, I'm going to have to replace my whole driver side cylinder head. My question is, with all this info I have given you regarding the timing problems, do you guys think this entails changing BOTH cylinder heads or just one? Let me know if this has happened to any of you and the best way to proceed. I hope you guys can help me out. Thank you.

Yuille36

Out of abundance of caution, I would also look at the other cylinder head, as they are connected by the timing chain. So when you engine came to an abrupt stop, if could have effected the other cylinder head.
The lifter/tappet wouldn't have fallen into the combustion chamber, as the lifter/tappet sits above the valve, but the valve could have. I just hope that you didn't have a valve hit the piston, but I think you might have when the camshaft broke.

E55Greasemonkey

It's time for a complete engine-out teardown, inspection and rebuild if feasible. Anything else is a waste of time and money. If you can't do this yourself then it will cost more than the car is worth.

hachiroku

where are you located...i'd recommend just replacing the entire motor if you do find more damage. with the amount of debris of that type of damage it wouldn't be very safe to proceed with that engine without a full rebuild.

E63007

Hello there, back in 2017 when I bought my 2007 E63, I ended up taking off the Intake Manifold due to very high idle. Then, while I was waiting for that to be fixed by RMT, I was contemplating whether to take out all the head bolts at once, and if so, replacing the head gasket, or rolling the dice with doing the One by One method. But after determining the carbon buildup in the intake runners was something I wanted to “clean up” I ultimately nixed the idea of using walnut shells ( can you say messy!) and decided to go whole hog and remove both heads and have them rebuilt ( by Xtreme Heads in Palm City, Fl.). I’m really glad I did because I never would have found out that 8 of my intake valves were bent and that was due to someone previous to me having taken apart the Cam Adjusters on the passenger side and mistakenly put the back together with the inner mechanism installed upside down! Yeah, the pin that receives an influx of oil in order to secure both halves was faced the other way!!! During removal of the Camshafts, of course I didn’t notice this because you obviously can’t see it because the cam adjuster is sealed. But when I was putting it back together, what stood out was that because the innards were installed backwards, the circular race that is supposed to receive the end of the Camshaft between which lies that diamond washer never tightens properly due to the fact that that side, which normally would be on the side that you would install the bolt, is tighter in circumference. Therefore the end of the cam was butted up into that outer race because the cams outer circumference is larger than that side!! This caused for the cam adjuster to never seat up next to the cam so it would have wobbled if not for the teeth of it being supported from below while being tightened to the cam! By the Cam Bolt. However, the teeth below didn’t line up due to the cam not seating properly leaving the teeth of the gears barely engaging with each other! Not only this, but they installed the Exhaust Adjuster on the Intake Side, and visa versa!! Its unbelievable the car didn’t self destruct beforehand, but I never would have known had I not busted the move when I did literally on day one of ownership!

Yuille36

I think that you made the right decision, as it uncovered all sorts of issues. That could have gone unnoticed thereby causing even more damaged overall.

equitiesguy

I was going to say - just buy a used engine, stick it in, and sell the car.

hachiroku

glad to know you found the issue! keep us updated on what happens next!

w211e63leo

Update guys!!
So my cam lobe hit my tappet so hard that it had been punctured the corresponding valve stem and turned my engine off. Luckily, the piston for that chamber lodged itself in such a way that it was halfway in the cylinder head and halfway in the block but not entirely BDC. This prevented my engine from starting and causing more damage to the head. After a good inspection, no damage to the piston was found. I ended up getting all new lifters, and a new cam for the driver side intake, where the problem had happened. Minimal metal shavings in my oil so I said screw it we are keeping this engine. Also did my headbolts while I was at it. Triple checked the timing, reassembled my heads and now the moment of truth. Went to start the car, and it ROARED to life. The breath of relief I took in that moment was absolute bliss. Now I still realized I was not fully in the clear due to the metal shavings. So I drove it about 600 miles keeping it under 3500 rpm to break in all the new parts and I soon as I passed that mark, I took her to redline and everything went off without a hitch. Ive been driving her daily for the past couple weeks now and the engine feels perfectly fine. I wonder if any other m156 owners have had a problem with your 722.9 not shifting at the right times or even at the worse times in my case. I hope this helps at least one of you and please drop your questions if you have any and I will try to answer to the best of my ability.

equitiesguy

It wasn't the transmission, the shift, or because you lifted your foot. The transmission didn't upshift and overrev the motor. Most engines can go past the redline, because the fuel and spark is instantly cut. You might float a lifter.

Your engine went because you got on it hard, and the 63's were always, and continue to be, junk.

w211e63leo

Look man I have owned the m113k and the m156 both in w211 form. Both are amazing engines in their own ways. The m156 engines can be even better than the m113k if you have a p31, 507, or black series version. Only weak points of the m156 are its headbolts, lifters, cams, and injectors really. If you have any special edition m156 with forged components, you essentially eliminate the drawbacks of this engine so no, the m156 is not junk. In fact I would even go as far to say that if supercharged and with forged internals, the m156 is one of the if not, THE best engine from AMG and honestly top 5 in the car world. If you judge a fish on its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life thinking it is stupid.

equitiesguy

Everything you just said is wrong, and nothing more then denial since you probably own an E63. If you stop telling people this absurd bull-s-h-i-t in this post, they would start treating it like what it is and we wouldn't have idiotic stories like this post.

I own two of the best engines in the world, and it isn't made by Mercedes. The M156 isn't even in the same galaxy.

nm4

https://drivetribe.com/p/top-5-best-...R_SQjd_tkHKIbA

https://www.carthrottle.com/post/the...ording-to-you/

https://www.complex.com/sports/2013/...m156-v8-eulogy

Equitiesguy, it appears some feel differently from you. One could be respectful and let them have their own opinions…but I guess some people just feel the need to be heard…

To the OP I’m glad you got your car fixed and hope you enjoy it, even if it doesn’t feature the M113K that decimates all lol

N

equitiesguy

Name another motor from Mercedes in the last 50 years that resulted in a class action lawsuit:
https://www.motorauthority.com/news/...mg-v-8-defects

Don't post puff piece links from idiots regurgitating the same bulls-h-i-t Mercedes puts in their press release.

The only reason Mercedes wasn't held liable for the suit is because all the cars were out of warranty, and the motors survived the 50k miles. That isn't quality. That isn't "one of the best engines of all time."

You know what that is? Junk.

And I'll add that I'm not deliberately knocking on the 63 platform directly. I just want people to realize this is not a bulletproof motor, and you should treat it accordingly. You should also not make posts proclaiming it to be the best motor of all time, when it is --- in fact --- junk.

nm4

M273 https://www.classactionrebates.com/s...rcedes_engine/

Surely someone as knowledgeable as you was aware of this settlement? Maybe you were too busy piece puffing lol

I’m the first to admit the M156 has many issues. But your attitude is obnoxious as can be. Why try to crap on the M156 every chance you can get? Move on.
N

equitiesguy

I wasn't aware of that only because I pay zero attention to non-AMG Mercedes. I decided back in 1996 that Mercedes had lost their edge in development and design for their production cars. The CLS55 was an exception because of Mclaren's involvement with the SLR (which is where the 113K is derived).

I just drove a C217 AMG 65 facelift coupe, and you don't want to know what my opinion is of that vehicle either (it was intended to replace my CLS directly). Though I do like the M279 + Speedshift drive train. They finally replaced the 722.643 with what I *** believe *** is another bullet proof transmission, but the jury is still out there because of the electronics in the valve body. The final iteration of the V12 (in the now M279) has some real enhancements to reliability, but I question why they haven't done this long ago. These are the same kind of changes they made to the 63 engines in the SLS, but not to the rest of their lineup for the M156.

I only crap on the M156 when people open their mouth and say it's one of the best engines in the world. It isn't. It's junk. AMG opened their mouth and toted that it was the first engine the AMG division designed from the ground up, and it's a complete failure. Frankly, it's possible most of their engines are junk. The M275 has some issues, although for the most part I believe it's relatively decent and may be the only other motor Mercedes produced in recent history that isn't trash. Once Mercedes parts from their 3 valve/2 spark plug per cylinder design, they have serious problems with internal reliability.

W126AMG

@equitiesguy have you ever owned an M156 car?

I totally agree that the M156 engine has issues - magnesium intake manifold housing prone to corrosion, cam adjuster plates that gall out, original hydraulic lifters that can stick, head bolts that can break (although blown way out of proportion just like the IMS bearing issues with 996 and 997.1 P-cars), but as an owner of an 09 E63 who has spent about $8k sorting out the above issues, I truly love to drive this car. The M113K engine is stout and has less issues than the M156, no arguing that, but I just prefer an NA engine over a blower. The interior trim and fit/finish of the 07-09 W211 AMG cars is substantially better than the first Gen W211's. If they had kept the M113K engine with the facelift interior (and front bumper cover), I probably would prefer that car. All the above said, the M156 engine is certainly not junk and that is what I and others have a problem with your commentary. What IS junk is the SBC brake system.

w211e63leo

Yea all that being said, most m156 owners do realize their engines aren't bulletproof. Far from it in fact, but that glorious sound that this beast of an engine makes, is what makes it worth it. I personally love both the m113k and the m156 but above all I love my w211's. Its my favorite chassis from Mercedes and has been for a while which is why I am thinking of a wacky project. As W124AMG said, the w211 e63 was better in essentially every way than the wand only could've been improved if it had the m113k. Now that is exactly what I want to do. I don't think its ever been done before but it would truly be the ultimate w211. A w211 e63 with an m113k mated to a manual transmission as the cherry on top. I see this as a project I would actually consider doing in the near future so please drop your tips, thoughts, and insight onto this wacky project idea of mine. Let me know what you all think and if you've heard of anyone doing such a thing.

Yuille36

Check out XF Motorsports, there a Canadian group of engineers, that has successfully mated a manual 6 speed up to the M113K.

w211e63leo

Yes I've seen this video. Does take quite a bit of coding as well but they linked the full kit and everything in the description. I was thinking of doing a manual swap on my m156 but there's only like 2 videos on it. One is a part one incomplete video/series and the other vid is probably the most hilarious. Its a c230 couple with and m156 swap and manual swap I thought since there ARE vids and kits for manual swapping an m113k, I figured that's exactly what I should do. It would truly be a 1 of 1 ultimate w211. I can do the work myself, just I wanted to get some outside knowledge and opinions beforehand from the MB boys here on MB world.

sciroccor

Why's it junk? It works pretty well. At least mine does. Are you on some weird mission? Is there a better motor? Sure. Is it junk? No. Certainly not. What is junk? Seriously? It's something of no value. This motor, most certainly, has value to many. So. It's, NOT junk. Btw, mine has 125k miles on it. Yes. I changed the headbolts, valve cover gaskets, intake manifold gaskets and the serpentine drive pulleys. I did that stuff on ex wife's sienna, too. Is that motor junk? Seriously, what is, in your not so humble opinion, a good motor?

nm4

I think it’s a great sounding motor with fantastic NA power delivery. Nothing amazing on the technology front but at least it has 4 valves per cylinder and dual overhead cams - the result is a large engine that likes to rev. It’s a pleasure. The m113 is definitely more easily modded but to me it seems closer to a SBC than a modern power plant (not that there’s anything wrong with any of the above).
N

M5 LOL

there are some nice E55s for sale right now.

kevm14

Yeah. That's probably the only reason I even considered a car like this. Because of the German hotrod powertrains, this is the closest to what I am used to. It's not like the M113K doesn't pull hard right to 6500 rpm.

E63007

I was wondering if you experienced a hard shut off in gear or what? I mean, if it just shut off in gear, I would imagine it slowing down pretty hard, unless you were able to shift it into neutral quickly?

As for the general performance of the M156 E63, I have rebuilt mine over the past 5 years. If you do a search on my posts, it will give you the full picture. I currently live in S. Florida where it obviously is totally flat, so I haven’t really been able to test on, say, the mountain roads of Colorado, Wyoming, Utah or Cali for that matter where I have been able test my other Cars of SAAB Aero pre 1993 Lore! Nevertheless, on the open road, of which there are enough to make do, this ride simply dominates where and when you want or need It! I installed a 3.06 w/ LSD in mine recently ( during my latest marathon build) and the response is just killer! At the general hwy speed (55,65,70) and beyond, as long as I’m hovering right at 3k rpm, performance is on-demand up to redline, although I rarely ever go beyond 5k! There’s no need. If I was at 5000 ft on a curvy mountain road, or anywhere with elevation change fir that matter, maybe the need would be otherwise. That is, unless I was on the track, but that remains a dream! Moreover, if I ever really want to feel the road/stiffen the suspension, because I went so far as to preserve the OEM AirSprings All around, I can push that button and have a slightly different experience, if need arises! I certainly pleased!