Finally getting around to upgrading the e55 wagon - 82MM TB question!
07-06-2021, 07:30 PM
#1
Super Member
Thread Starter
Finally getting around to upgrading the e55 wagon - 82MM TB question!
I have been out of the kompressor game for almost a decade since I've been messing around with my V12TT s600 platform, now im back to the kompressor in a wagon, but need to learn the ropes again as so much has changed!
Installing a newer 82mm TB (2731410325) from a newer 550 platform with upgraded+modified snout (1131400912), but obviously now the stock intake y-pipe and intake will not fit. WHat has everyone been using as a suitable y-pipe and intake system that isnt outrageously priced?
Also, I was thinking about trying out the Fabtech performance phenolic spacers since the blower is off and they are local to me. Anyone have any experience or reviews of this product or company?
Anything else that I should consider while the blower is off? do these cars benefit from larger injectors, or are the stock injectors still sufficient for this setup?
(185 asp pulley, eurocharged headers, 82mm TB, larger snout, catless)
Thanks for the help!
-Jon
Installing a newer 82mm TB (2731410325) from a newer 550 platform with upgraded+modified snout (1131400912), but obviously now the stock intake y-pipe and intake will not fit. WHat has everyone been using as a suitable y-pipe and intake system that isnt outrageously priced?
Also, I was thinking about trying out the Fabtech performance phenolic spacers since the blower is off and they are local to me. Anyone have any experience or reviews of this product or company?
Anything else that I should consider while the blower is off? do these cars benefit from larger injectors, or are the stock injectors still sufficient for this setup?
(185 asp pulley, eurocharged headers, 82mm TB, larger snout, catless)
Thanks for the help!
-Jon
Last edited by m3j0n; 07-06-2021 at 07:34 PM.
07-08-2021, 01:25 PM
#2
Super Member
I'm surprised no one has jumped in yet, but here's the overview I think you're looking for:
For ease of install, everyone uses the SL55 Y pipe on the intake side, part # 113-090-03-29. You could possibly cobble together something using an 82mm silicone Y, short aluminum tubing sections and hose clamps, but you'd need to tap for PCV and probably do a lot of wrestling to get it to fit, there just isn't clearance back there for much more than the factory intake sections that have a narrower profile.
I haven't seen much on spacers, I don't think many run them, my biggest concern would be getting a good seal and avoiding leaks and you're adding another layer that could possibly lead to that (twice the gasket surface). They're sold for 'cooling and IAT management', but honestly your money is better spent on other cooling mods. 90 seconds of sitting and everything in your engine bay heats back up to the same temp, I doubt these alter usable temps at all.
Injectors have been a debated topic, as some run these mods on stock injectors and have no problems. Others point out the duty cycle a little too high for comfort. I believe most failures are not due to the size of injectors, but the age. To me having a bigger margin of safety if/when they start to underperform is helpful, when I had mine out and did pulley and headers I upgraded injectors as both an age and safety item. I may have not needed to, but the tuner (RaceIQ) has done a ton of tunes using them so my tune is spot on and these should last a long time. Ask your tuner about the injectors, as their comfort level and experience will matter much more in how they work on your car. Oh and buy from a reputable source, Amazon and Ebay have seen a lot of counterfeit Bosch injectors floating around...not something to take a chance on.
Lastly, and others will probably jump in to echo this, be aware the 82mm TB may not work on your car. There are several threads that are pages long covering these issues, but some of our motors just don't take to the airflow on the 82mm TBs. People have tried several units, even forking out $1k+ on a new factory one, just to have more problems. Installation must be perfect on the SC and intake gaskets, the TB is easy if you have the upgraded snout. Even with no leaks, these can trigger fault codes that put the car into a dangerously lean condition. It will still drive and make power, which makes it even scarier if you don't have a wideband AF sensor to monitor air/fuel. If it goes into the 'hiccup mode' it reverts to a backup map, and if you mash the throttle and build boost, you could be running lean enough to damage the motor.
So - best advice if you are set on using the 82 - Check frequently for pending codes with STAR (not a generic OBD2 scanner), monitor AF (if you don't have a wideband, at least monitor short term fuel trim in OBD while driving, it will peg to +25% if it goes into hiccup mode), and bump idle in P and D w/ STAR to avoid other codes relating to the TB being too large to maintain a lower idle. Do you already have the snout and have it installed? If not, you may want to look at porting your stock snout and buying the adapter plate, that way you can easily change back to a stock TB if the 82 doesn't work out. If you don't, the supercharger would have to come out again to put the stock snout back on. OR be a guinea pig and try out one of the larger TBs and snout kits some vendors are offering, from what I hear the larger TBs don't have as many issues, for some reason just the 82.
Best of luck sir!
For ease of install, everyone uses the SL55 Y pipe on the intake side, part # 113-090-03-29. You could possibly cobble together something using an 82mm silicone Y, short aluminum tubing sections and hose clamps, but you'd need to tap for PCV and probably do a lot of wrestling to get it to fit, there just isn't clearance back there for much more than the factory intake sections that have a narrower profile.
I haven't seen much on spacers, I don't think many run them, my biggest concern would be getting a good seal and avoiding leaks and you're adding another layer that could possibly lead to that (twice the gasket surface). They're sold for 'cooling and IAT management', but honestly your money is better spent on other cooling mods. 90 seconds of sitting and everything in your engine bay heats back up to the same temp, I doubt these alter usable temps at all.
Injectors have been a debated topic, as some run these mods on stock injectors and have no problems. Others point out the duty cycle a little too high for comfort. I believe most failures are not due to the size of injectors, but the age. To me having a bigger margin of safety if/when they start to underperform is helpful, when I had mine out and did pulley and headers I upgraded injectors as both an age and safety item. I may have not needed to, but the tuner (RaceIQ) has done a ton of tunes using them so my tune is spot on and these should last a long time. Ask your tuner about the injectors, as their comfort level and experience will matter much more in how they work on your car. Oh and buy from a reputable source, Amazon and Ebay have seen a lot of counterfeit Bosch injectors floating around...not something to take a chance on.
Lastly, and others will probably jump in to echo this, be aware the 82mm TB may not work on your car. There are several threads that are pages long covering these issues, but some of our motors just don't take to the airflow on the 82mm TBs. People have tried several units, even forking out $1k+ on a new factory one, just to have more problems. Installation must be perfect on the SC and intake gaskets, the TB is easy if you have the upgraded snout. Even with no leaks, these can trigger fault codes that put the car into a dangerously lean condition. It will still drive and make power, which makes it even scarier if you don't have a wideband AF sensor to monitor air/fuel. If it goes into the 'hiccup mode' it reverts to a backup map, and if you mash the throttle and build boost, you could be running lean enough to damage the motor.
So - best advice if you are set on using the 82 - Check frequently for pending codes with STAR (not a generic OBD2 scanner), monitor AF (if you don't have a wideband, at least monitor short term fuel trim in OBD while driving, it will peg to +25% if it goes into hiccup mode), and bump idle in P and D w/ STAR to avoid other codes relating to the TB being too large to maintain a lower idle. Do you already have the snout and have it installed? If not, you may want to look at porting your stock snout and buying the adapter plate, that way you can easily change back to a stock TB if the 82 doesn't work out. If you don't, the supercharger would have to come out again to put the stock snout back on. OR be a guinea pig and try out one of the larger TBs and snout kits some vendors are offering, from what I hear the larger TBs don't have as many issues, for some reason just the 82.
Best of luck sir!
The following 2 users liked this post by GinDistiller:
APBTdogman (07-08-2021),
maw1124 (08-17-2021)
07-09-2021, 10:39 AM
#3
Super Member
Thread Starter
Thank you so much for your time to write that response. I ended up installing everything since I wasnt getting a response on here. Disappointing to hear that I may encounter issues with this snout and TB.... UGH....
I ended up just doing the Fabtech 3" intake, I did the phenolic spacers, and changed the supercharger oil while it was off. Just doing colder plugs now and a correct size belt for everything, then the motor is going back in the car. I will keep my factory TB and Snout and pray that it doesnt have to come off again - i imagine its way more of a PITA to do while the motor is in the car.
One quick question regarding the snout - the factory snout has a black plastic plug apparatus that plugs the nipple on the snout. The larger upgraded snout has a larger nipple and the plug does not transfer onto the new snout. What have most people done with this? just cap it with a rubber vacuum plug and clamp it?
I think I have decided to do the looped fuel rail with the 550CC upgraded bosch injectors that fabtech sells, unless there is another preferred option. Please let me know what you suggest. I was told that the location of the feed port on the factory fuel rail creates some type of vortex that can starve cyl #8 and make it run lean. definitely wanted to avoid that with the amount of parts I just spent on this thing.
thank you again for your help!
I ended up just doing the Fabtech 3" intake, I did the phenolic spacers, and changed the supercharger oil while it was off. Just doing colder plugs now and a correct size belt for everything, then the motor is going back in the car. I will keep my factory TB and Snout and pray that it doesnt have to come off again - i imagine its way more of a PITA to do while the motor is in the car.
One quick question regarding the snout - the factory snout has a black plastic plug apparatus that plugs the nipple on the snout. The larger upgraded snout has a larger nipple and the plug does not transfer onto the new snout. What have most people done with this? just cap it with a rubber vacuum plug and clamp it?
I think I have decided to do the looped fuel rail with the 550CC upgraded bosch injectors that fabtech sells, unless there is another preferred option. Please let me know what you suggest. I was told that the location of the feed port on the factory fuel rail creates some type of vortex that can starve cyl #8 and make it run lean. definitely wanted to avoid that with the amount of parts I just spent on this thing.
thank you again for your help!
07-09-2021, 11:42 AM
#4
Super Member
Yes, cap the nipple with whatever works. Those plugs are prone to leakage so this is an upgrade haha. I think I tossed some extra rtv around mine too just because, but with vacuum at that port it should stay sealed no problem.
It sounds like you've done everything you should! I also run the 550cc Bosch and they are great, my tuner said I didn't need the looped rail but it's definitely added insurance against the #8 issue.
Fingers crossed the 82 works for you! I've had my SC out a few times with the motor in the car, it's not horrible if you have a cherry picker, so at least if you have problems it won't be costing you money in parts, just annoyance and time. Good luck!
It sounds like you've done everything you should! I also run the 550cc Bosch and they are great, my tuner said I didn't need the looped rail but it's definitely added insurance against the #8 issue.
Fingers crossed the 82 works for you! I've had my SC out a few times with the motor in the car, it's not horrible if you have a cherry picker, so at least if you have problems it won't be costing you money in parts, just annoyance and time. Good luck!
07-31-2021, 01:51 PM
#5
Junior Member
This right here was very helpful. I'm trying to locate a rough idle issue and during a smoke test I discovered that valve in the rear of the snout. After much googling and FB posts (which were also helpful) I searched here to figure out what that valve is. I can't find it listed on a parts fiche, nor did I find anything about it in the WIS. Do you have any idea what this valve is called, and why it's in place? Is it some sort of pressure release valve? It just doesn't make sense to me.
07-31-2021, 01:54 PM
#6
Super Member
This right here was very helpful. I'm trying to locate a rough idle issue and during a smoke test I discovered that valve in the rear of the snout. After much googling and FB posts (which were also helpful) I searched here to figure out what that valve is. I can't find it listed on a parts fiche, nor did I find anything about it in the WIS. Do you have any idea what this valve is called, and why it's in place? Is it some sort of pressure release valve? It just doesn't make sense to me.
08-05-2021, 09:08 AM
#7
Super Member
The looped rail does nothing & is a waste of money. Don’t do it. While super charger is off at the very least regrease the rear bearings if not replace them with the new kit from Ben that offers sealed ones that don’t have the problem with the grease coming out over time. While apart I’d put in 550 injectors as they aren’t very expensive and will give you more headroom. The colder plugs were probably not necessary. With that pulley you probably need a large upgrade in cooling. With the SL Y you just need to add two different o rings to it (can find ordering instructions in different thread if you search). Be sure to replace the bypass throttle body rubber collar as that is a common leak point.
