Jon200

I share the same feeling, I am getting used to the back of the 5er, in fact I think it looks alright, but the front just doesn't grow on me

krispykrme

no problem.

BTW, I don't think the new headlight on the E60 looks like gangster. It actully looked gay to me (nothing wrong with being homosexual). It's a girly eye. When the E60 1st came out my wife's 1st comment was "hmm it got a phoenix eye (translate into chinese, you know what this meant), with a raised eyebrow. The rear looks some girl deliberately tuck their *** in to make it appears tighter." I nearly slammed into a parked car when I was laughing so hard due to my might wife's comment.

However, the M5 treatment did bring about a totally change in the car's appearance.

MikeHK

Being a BMW fan, I must admit the bangle era of cars are too much for me, with the exception of the Z4. The 7er is too big in my opinion, something like the pervious S class which I considered Fxxing ugly, but I found there are quite alot on the streets of Hong Kong. The 5er is not ugly, but I think it is too "Asian" , it would be beautiful accord or camry but just a decent BMW for it is not BMW enough. Z4, I like it the first time I saw it on magazine or spy shot, the long hood, short butt is just my cup of tea. Then I fall deeper in love with it the more and more I see it on the street. The first time I went to MB showroom at CWB to check out the SLK, I thought the SLK is prettier than the Z4. But after seeing my friend's SLK350, I think the Z4 is way better looking than SLK. SLK to me is too girlish. That was the appearnce issue, for performance, driving sensation issue, they are in different league, no question about it. BMW wins hands down.

BMW sales are raising in the first 2Q in HK according to some magazines, I don't remember which month(s) but BMW HK had sold more cars than MB HK in a month or 2 for the first time in history. (MINI not included)

Regarding the Mafia image, I think it is total nonsense. For the previous 7er's are the HK government car, it is nowhere near to a Mafia image but an executive image. To me, a black S class with tinted windows look way more MAFIA than any of the BMW. Probably of the amount of heavily modified 3ers out in the street made you think they are gangers.

Finally, in HK and China, people who buy a MB doesn't care how the new car looks as long as it got the MB badge hanged up high for people to see. Sales of the previous S class had been a nightmare all over the world but HK and China, these bosses probably didn't even go to the showroom and see the car in person before they buy it. It is a keeping up the status issue more than anything matter.

krispykrme

May be it is non-sense to you. But black 7 series is one of the most favorable car for mafia in taiwan and china. That's why I posted the link. BTW, those mafia BMW are not really modified other than tinted window, bullet proof windows. I believe Taiwan/china had the highest number of 7 protection pacakge outside of middle east.

Next time you run into any person from taiwan or china, they probably would tell you the same thing.

Supposely, the mafia believes that BMW performance is better than S, hence easier to get away from the police.

MikeHK

I don't know about Taiwan, but not in China for sure as I travel back and forth HK and China more than 2 times a week. And I go to Beijing and Shanghai once every 3 months. It would stupid for them to try to get away in a MB or a BMW in China since they would attract so much attention, and with the road condition, it would make no difference if you are trying to get away with a VW golf or an ENZO (well, probably the golf would be a bit faster) The bullet proof protection package are sold to millionaires like the Lee's family and government leaders, since a bullet proof 5er has a price at well over 4millions HKD which is about 500k USD, gangster will not be able to afford that kind of money. Or perhaps too high profile. And the last thing you want in front of the China government is being too high profile in business of this type.

cntlaw

I tend to somewhat agree that for every country, there exists "mofia image" cars. Even I was in Taiwan for a year, I did not hang around at night to pay attention the parked cars. But I do remember once friend of mine hit a parked BMW 5 series in Bangkok which belonged to a Taiwanese "Big Mofia Boss". Neither I noticed 7's are china mofia/officials 's cup of tea though not surprise that they are.

You might be right that , since there are almost no hope to buy an S AMG in china because its relatively high price and tax , 7's could likely be a choice for the china mofia/big boss.
Based on my many Asia countries working experience, mofia tends to use big engine saloons. S and CL AMG are definitely Japan mofia / big boss 's prime choices.In HK, mofia are more used to with Toyko GS300 (Aristo) twin-turbo or the Toyko RACER. I also noticed in recent years more HK mofia use 240 E210 blue color because possible there are so many such color around so they are easily to hide. I did see them having bunch of ****** in the back seats while I was in Mongkok.

cnt

cntlaw

Back to this original question, can we find out in time, how many E55 owners replace their car with the M5 ?
As we all agree, 'like it' is not quite the same as you have paid a fortune and to own it and drive on the road proudly with your family and friends.
There is only one reason if I were to upgrade to the M5 instead of E55, it is that I love the M5 performance figure being the top of the range and I do not want to drive the ' same thing ' as there are already a significant number of E55's ( and CL55 ) around the city.

But I have to be golden rich (and don't give $ a damn) if you know what the M5 price tage in HK is to be. PPl who can afford sich price tags, would really not care whether the car is a MB/BMW, 4 door , 2 door, saloon or coupe...and they only want to drive something different and top of the range to make sure the public agree to his taste , money and power.
This is why all the Lambo's, DB7, Maserati, 911turbo come into the tiny city space of HK.


cnt

cntlaw

About BMW sale volume in HK, they always sell more than MB because the low price tage of the 318i - as I said there were no choice if someone wants the best brand european saloon in cheapest price they can get.
The reason that in the past few years, the C200K was more expensive than the 318i , was because the dealer had added a compulsory 3 yr warranty to the price.
And, another good guess is HK ppl still like what many still believe BMW has more "young, stylish and nergentic " style than the MB. So the 318 becomes more a young lady car tody.

As I mentioned earlier , a good guess, the facelift C200K sports package is going to take a lot of the 318 market share this and next year

sorry that we are not talking E55 and M3 here
cnt

krispykrme

Actually, you should know that govt' official and those people are well connected. A lot of famous mafia guys would open legitimate business (wink wink) while not returning to taiwan to face trial. China's policy is as long as they don't break the law that ridiculously, those mafia boss can do what ever they want.

Remember we are talking about china that everything can be bought for right price. I do mean everything. BTW, this is way off topic. I am going back tonight to see if i can dig up a picture of a famous mafia boss that die 2 year ago, when mayor of Taipei went to pay respect. You see two rows on black BMW along with hundreds of young kid dressed in black suit.

MikeHK

I wasn't so sure about the sales figures and the model repartitions. But BMW out only sold MB for a month or 2, not always. 3er sales are always relatively higher than C, from last generation to this generation. 318 price might had dropped, but buyer in HK does not have the choice of "water goods" for BMW as they do with MB's, so I don't think price is the matter here.

BMW has a younger and sportier image and they still do. It is not how their car appears but how their car drives. Not that you put on some aftermarket bodykit to a C will make it drives like a dream, that is not going to happen. So even with sport package on the C200k, it is still a C, it may look sportier outside but it still drives like a Mercedes which is not necessary a bad thing.

Regarding to the gangster image, I don't think it is hurting BMW sales at all for I as one do not have any idea how BMW links to Mafia. First came to mind was a S class for those "big big bro" and Toyota Chase, WRX, EVO, GS400 for the those going down the order.

Jon200

That's what I was thinking, I just don't see how mafia could affect the sales of BMW

cntlaw

Mike ,

We share pretty close view already, except I have a different view about the BMW 3 series 's 'more sporty style than the C'.

I would not agree the C's Sports package is entirely 'after market'; it is actually considered as an offical 'MB option' by our local dealer here.

I guess the reason your perception about 'after market' sporty packages added onto MB's are not making the MB to become a sports car, is purely because most ppl in HK only add the 'sporty stuff' in the car exterior. A true complete Brabus sport MB sadan would have had engine modifications, suspension/spring changed and exhaust system replacement..etc

The 4-door 3's without addtional sporty spoliers, bigger 17/18" wheels is still look like a family car to me.

Anyhow, I can imagine some of the Porche owners here will laugh to tears if me and you still want to debate whether the 3's is a more sporty looking car than the C's.

I can't stop you think that way that about a car is not sporty if it is 'still drive like a MB'. Frankly, comparing my C55 to the 325i I used to have; I would not want to be seen as a driver on the 325i again in my life

The C55 might not look any closer to a 'more sporty 3' to you ; but I do feel I am much younger than when I was driving my 325i ten years ago.



cnt
p.s. One of the factors that the W211 is now a much younger , sportier looking winner over W210 , surely makes the look of the E60 a loser.

MikeHK

CNT,

You must realize one fact, a C class with a sportier exterior modification or face lift, doesn't make the C DRIVES sportier. On the other hand, the 3 or all BMW's for that matter, provide that "connectiveness" even if you are driving a 318. It might look like a family car and well under power, but the feed back it provides convinced me I am "connected" to the car.

To me, it doesn't really matter which car are selling better 'cos it doesn't affect me. I take M over AMG for their commitment and effort into re-developing the M3, M5, M6 or whatever M cars coming out. As an engineer, I admire BMW commitment in investing and developing lower displacement engine which are on par if not better than MB and AUDI larger displacement (some even with Force induction) engine. And the effort of redesigning the entire Chassis and suspension setup. I truely believe that's what made a M car special, and that's how everything started anyway. AMG and AUDI S are good cars, but not great in my opinion.

I used to track my BMW's, MB's and Honda's back then when I still live in Canada about once every week. To be honest with you, I had more fun in the Honda's than in the MB's. Now I stuck with my E320 W211 and am bored to death everyday my way to work, I just feel so isolated. The key for me is, am I driving the car or the car is driving me. I hope you know what I mean. Of course the Honda's are too harsh for daily driving, so BMW is more my cup of tea.

My 0.02.

Mike

cntlaw

Mike , you make your point as you certainly is a true BMW lover.
We don't need to redefine what people here already know and understand.
What we are talking here are "street cars" where we use it for fun and for day-to-day, so some "gaps" do exist.

I share your feeling about W211, the E320 W211 is a 'wrong choice' for your taste and demand of more sporty sedan.

B4 I went for the C55, myself was also being tempted to upgrade from my W210 to W211 E350/E500, since most iof their parameters satisfy all aspects of what I need. I was 'lucky' , becuase I was just about to get slightly tired with the W210, that was why I had been very relunctant to pay a fortune again for another E.

The C55 came in the right timing, I read so much about the C55 and it happened that xung fu had 4 of them on the latest shipment. Even I always wanted a black , I took the silver gladly.

I did enjoy my 5.5 years of joy with my 1995 Prelude 2.2 VTEC; but I must admit I enjoyed my E320 W210 more because the much better torque at low revs.

I think you still should be glad with the W211 if you know how bumpy my C55 suspension is , when driving on those rubbish roads in hong kong.

happy driving .

cnt
p..s do check the C32 threads and find out more about how sporty the C32 can be.

MikeHK

Different stroke for different folk. The W211 is a company car so I don't have much choice over it, and I must also admit it is a better passenager car as I have to take my clients out often. In this case, the W211 makes perfect sense.

The W211's head tends to push (understeer) quite easy whenever I gave it a run, perhaps the front is too heavy. Does the C55 react the same?

cntlaw

Mike,

A "company W211 in HK" !! Congratulations for your career achievement.

I 'paid' for my E320 W211 facelift and used 38000km for three yrs - I must say it is a God's creation , plenty of power enough fun for being a driver, or the W211 would 'drive for me' if I feel very tired after work!
The W210 went well with most of my moods.
I have to drive 25km through the Lung Cheung Road and Highway No.3 on a daily basis.

W211 might be a relatively heavier car but 232 hp would not have a bit of torque problem to take full passengers up the steep roads to the Peak of HK.

"Understeer" not really with the W211, and definitely not as horrible as my Honda Accord 's FF drive oversteer. I did 'race' a little on my W211 some tight cornerings on Repulse Bay road, that 'heavy body' never did really bother me.

So, I must say, W211 320 would only be better.

C55 is a C with huge modification (of course). The most significant one is the AMG suspension - very stiff - but it does give the C55 a very safe and stable grip at high speed. The W210 would start to get noisy when reaching 150kmh. As the C55 is still in its breakin period, I only did push it to 160kmh and that stable and safe feeling was like I was at 100kmh with the W210.

At close to the same price tag of my C55, I could have paid less than the C55's equ. USD10800 for the 'top' of range E60 i.e. the 545i which is 333hp , only 34hp less than C55. And, E60 is a much newer generation of the 5 series model than the aged W203 C model (regardless I am getting an AMG 5.5 litre) ( of course I did not do this because I could not accept the look of the E60 )

If you are into car handling , you will like the C320 more than the E320. Today's E is good enough to be a driver's car. The C with some powerful engine can be a racer's car. Of course, we are still talking about sports sedans.


cnt