BoBcanada

MMAfia

that seems to be a pretty one-sided review.... but the decision they make is quite emphatic without any doubt whatsoever.

you forgot the last page...



hmm... well, i dunno about going THAT far, but overall, it seems that the M5 is going to be the winner of future road tests and comparisons with other sports saloons.

what i did find interesting is that they thought the interior of the M5 was the best among the three... go figure.

Just_me

It's just personal. There is no answer on what car got the best interior. Up to everyone to decide.

Jon200

red crosses for me?

MikeHK

Nothing offensive, but I somehow agree with his statement. Interior and exterior appearance are subjective to personal taste, there are no standard. Performance measures are hard data and can't be argued.

BoBcanada

You can see the article here...

http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=46135

VelocitE55

Here we go again.

Zlaatan

.

Bilal

Strange, I checked out the magazine yesterday, and there were no numbers whatsoever? Then where did the person who posted last week the M5 comprehensively beating the E55 in acceleration, get their numbers from?

FWIW, the M5 is a great car dynamically, and in fun factor, but the E55 is just so elegant, and beautiful, the choice has never been tougher.

Just_me

Bilal, the chooice was easy when E39 existed but not anymore

Jon200

cheers

cntlaw

Mike , it is me again.

No matter what 'peronal taste' means, have we as consumer ever got any choices if we were either to pick a E or a 5 - i..e there are only two choices, not really sure how 'personal' we want it to be.

It is a general recognition that , for the same 'class', MB interior is FAR SUPERIOR than the BMW in all aspects. I did compare W211 and E60 in car shows I went.

cnt
p.s I am a BMW lover too, except I am just disappointed with what they can come up with these days, can never go beyond the new MBs.

MikeHK

What do you mean by all aspects? Chassis-wise, engine-wise, handling-wise, I think BMW is on top, hands down, no questions about it. Exterior design, interior design are personal, you might hate the E60 design but somebody else would love it. Just like somebody thinks his wife is pretty, but I might not agree. If you see what I mean?

I am not trying to convince anybody here, I am just simply stating my opinion about cars. You might agree or not, just as I can disagree with yours. Your point of view is typically HK, and I could understand that. But please keep in mind that even MB being more suitable to HK envirnoment or HK people taste doesn't make it a better than BMW. Will I buy a M5 in HK, probably not, but do I think the M5 is a better car than E55? YES, I do think so. This simply stated that a car sells better doesn't automatically means it is a better car.

For me, the "CLASS" issue is personal, as I don't have to prove anything to other by driving a higher "CLASS" car, this factor doesn't affect my decision in buying. I must admit I am a selfish person, I expect my car to bring driving enjoyment to myself every single time I am driving it (not necessarily on track) instead of driving something to show others how much money I got or how am I more superior than other by driving a higher "CLASS" car. Call me the minority, but that's the way I see it.

W210

It is so typically HK elitist mentality to claim to understand the typical HK mentality and sarcastically belittle and make fun of it.

To me, car nuts who enjoy pushing a Porsche to its fullest on track or street do not gain any more of my respect than businessmen who pick comfortable Lexus for their pleasure, or the nouveau rich who buy Phantoms to show off. What is better will always be subjective based on the end user as there is no absolute 'better car'.

Your point of view about what is typically HK is also your point of view which I completely disagree. But then, that's only my point of view which is just as unimportant as your point of view.

But yes, I agree with those who find the new BMWs ugly. What's wrong with BMW?

W210

I share the same view, especially between the W211 and E60. The E39 dash used look much nicer than the W210 dash, but the E60 has been a major disappointment. From the quality of the leather to the hinges of the arm rest to the mechanism of the cup-holders to the texture and colour of the dash.

I especially find the ergonomics offensive in the E60. The system is so poorly designed that BMW had to add a last minute sticker, yes, a cheap plastic peel off sticker next to the iDrive knob for instructions on how to use the HVAC.

The iDrive knob is uncomfortable to hold and use, poor tactile feedback, very easy to make input mistakes. And for those who use the factory car phone, the E60 does not even have a keypad which makes alphanumeric dialling impossible.

Not only does the interior look and feel cheap, BMW picked form over function neglecting user friendliness. Designers are obsessed with creating a pseudo high tech clean look hence removing most useful buttons on the console. Personally, I rather have handy functional buttons than panels of useless wood trim pieces.

Obviously, the clean look philosophy is a failure and doesn't follow through, which is why next to the seat bottom, there are still more than a dozen unmarked buttons for seat adjustment. Depending on my mood, the clothes I wear and the duration of the drive, I like to adjust my seat setting every now and then. Unfortunately, all the seat adjustment buttons are hidden in a very narrow space between the door and the seat bottom. Another ergonomics disaster. (But at least it's still better than the 7 series making seat adjustment a 2 stage event.)

Well, not all is bad, the seat itself is very comfortable with lots of thigh support. And the fact that one can tilt the upper back of the seat as well as the side of the headrest for additional 'neck support' is great. It is also convenient that the seat side bolsters will deflate when you remove the key making in and out easier. Too bad they make all the seat adjustments so difficult.

Overall, I agree, the interior of the new 5 is far inferior to the W211.

MikeHK

First of all, my post is to response to cntlaw, we have been discussing on this matter in a very polite manner in another thread about our different views on cars. Somehow cntlaw jumped to this thread and hence, I posted my response over here. Please follow the entire discussion before you make any insult.

I respect your point of view on picking the MB over BMW. And to be honest I wasn't being sarcastic or making fun of being typical HK (I drive a E320 W211 as well for god sake), you may disgree with my observation but prove me I am wrong. Moreover, I only stated MB makes only good cars but not great cars based on my personal preferences (which is not important to you), and I prefer how BMW cars are being designed over MB.

And you are right, all I have been doing is just telling cntlaw why I think BMW is a better IN MY POINT OF VIEW based on my OWN PERFERENCE. As I stated in my previous post, I don't find the E60 to be handsome neither, but as a whole package, it has convinced ME over the E55.

I love cars and driving in general, I will be happy in a E55 but I believe I will be happier in a E60 M5. That's me. For you it might be different.

If you have time, please go and readthe other thread where me and cntlaw discussed started before you start making your judgement.

MikeHK

This I agree 100%. The E class got a way more handsome interior than the E60. I think I misread CNTLAW and missed out the word "INTERIOR". I thought he was saying the E55 is FAR SUPERIOR than E60 M5 in ALL ASPECT. Which I strongly disagree.

W210

MikeHK, I have followed your threads, I just don't quite agree with when you generalize a group of people from MB E55 owners to MB owners in HK. In the M5 thread, you went:

"To me, these guys cares about what status their E55 brings them more than the enjoyment it brings in driving. Knowing that they might not be able to claim their car is the fastest 4 door sedan anymore is really disturbing them. Totally immature, narrow minded kid "

I apologize I should have perhaps given a rebuttal back then, but that thread was getting out of hand so I stayed out of it.

Most of the ridicule from members over the article is about how impossible it was to have the M5 beating the E55 by 15 car lengths to 100 mph, as well as the silly comparison with the editor racing an unknown driver on public roads?

I agree with you about E55 owners rating absolute die hard performance not at the highest priority. To many of us please understand, enjoyment in driving means a quieter interior as well as smoother transmission. Strong effortless acceleration is important as well, which is why many of us picked the E55. Being the fastest 4 door was only one of the MANY reasons why we bought our E55.

Believe it or not, I was pleasantly surprised the German editors praised the M5 for having a quiet interior. I for one, even for my super car, would always prefer a quieter interior. Engine noise is never music to my ears. I do not want an F1 car as my daily workhorse. I prefer a ML stereo over Ferrari engine noise anytime although I would appreciate F1 safety technology in my sedan.

When I read your comments about HK MB owners, your previous generalization was already imbedded in my mind that you feel MB owners in HK, again, like E55 owners, only care about status and class therefore they pick MB. This is really what ticked me off.

Of course, you are entitled to your opinion but your messages are far more enjoyable to read when you focus your opinions on cars instead of people.

And please, you must understand this is not about proving one right or wrong, this is all about sharing opinions and respecting others' opinions.

To set the record straight, I do not always prefer MB over BMW. I think it is shallow and boring to blindly compare brands instead of their specific models. While I may pick a C class over a 3 series, an E over the 5, I would definitely pick the X5 over the ML, while the 7 and the S will be a wash. It is not class but the specific peformance of each car that makes me like or dislike it. I actually quite like Audis as well, but cannot sink my money into buying them, not because of status but because of the poor resale value.

The E55 or the M5? I will hold my judgement on the M5 until I test drive one. I don't like to conclude whether I like or dislike a car based on magazine readings alone.

And I actually put my name down for the M5 a year ago (first at the dealership) and it is not a company car but something I use my hard earned money to pay for. No, I don't blindly hate BMWs but the new 5 certainly has a lot of hurdles to overcome. I test drove a 545i extensively and like its handling but its cheap interior, unattractive exterior and poor ergonomics really put me off. To make up for my missing goodies (it doesn't even have my auto trunk closer!), the M5 will have to be spectacular and not just beating the E55 in 0.3 seconds to 62mph, we'll see.

M5KILLR

every article i have ever read about mb versus bmw before i even read it i would guess the outcome. shocker, i was always right, bmw is the drivers machine and the mb is nice and solid. so with the vaunted m5 on the way bmw ophiles hold their nose and, we love it!!! do you really? is the exterior anything other than polarizing? it wont even be here until a year from november! then guess how much those lovely dealers will charge over msrp. i owned an m3 and it wont be pretty. and at 80k for starters who knows what the price will be. ive never bought a car to have as stock and my e will soon be an m5 killer at the strip (already is) AND on the track. my friend has a new 5 seriers (company car) says he likes it but would never buy one. iver driven it and really really looked at it and if it takes getting used to thats not the emotion your dream car should have. you should love it at first sight, get compliments everywhere, i do. so for those who REALLY love the new m5 congratulations. but its a little hard to believe that EVERYONE on the e39 board LOVES the new car. they LOVE the fact some mag (and im sure everyone to follow) says its better than the e55. as far as the masarati riveira, ppllllllllllleeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaasssssssssseeeeeee ee!!!!

Zlaatan

I'm one of many that didn't like the looks of the E60 at first sight. I thought it was a BIG step down from the E39 and I still do. However now I think it actually looks good (the M5). Same thing with the Ferrari 360. IMO the 355 is the most beautiful car ever made so I didn't like the 360 when it came. Now I love it.. So it definately doesn't have to be love at first sight.

And for the "get compliments everywhere" comment. I don't care if I have a car that people don't think looks good. It's my car, not theirs.

MikeHK

That reply was in the other thread that really went out of place with fellow MB members Belmondo and Bobcanada, the way they reacted to unconfirmed data was just total immature and narrow minded. I still think so. Moreover, please read cntlaw's posts and you would probably find what I meant by typically HK means. Please allow me to make it clear, I was trying to generalize HK MB owners but not MB owners to HK MB owners.

And I still believe the E60 M5 will be faster than the E55, from all data released up to date, it shows it is going to be faster. But would it be the reason for current E55 owners to switch to the M5, obviously not. There are more than the straight line speed when it comes down to a buying decision. The 2 cars are built as competitors, for the same group of target buyers, but percisely, they are built for diff buyers with different perferences within the group.

cntlaw

Read my thread
"MB interior is FAR SUPERIOR than the BMW in all aspects"

You got excited but try to read thoroughly, or we would be damn thrown out from this group being
Anyway, appreciated your time to response and all your other points

cnt

cntlaw

MIKEHK , W210

Thanks all your responses. It was just a mis-read of my msg by MikeHK.
We all point out many offtopic but good to find out.
Mike has a W211 , he is a MB fan too.
Hope we won't be too peronal.

May be we should blame BMW , for what they have done , they might have done the 'right thing' to turn the 7's to its new (ugly) look. At least , 7's owners are more matured.

But It does not mean they were doing the 'right thing' to the outlook of 5's. Or they really over-estimated their brand name and under-estimated the taste of today's cars lovers.

I have a feeling that BMW is not going to take risk on the coming new 3's which is their true bread and butter. I saw the new look of the 3's on a mag, but that was not a very good photo for me to judge what the 3's will be looked like.

E55 is an expensive decision for HK ppl (1.3million HKD); I guess I would consider my next upgrade to a new M3 400hp or a new gen of C55/C65
CLS will not be my cup of tea, it is just too unique taste.

I like to drive a popular model so when I look around the roads , I can see 'myself'. :p

cnt

cntlaw

W210,

You just managed to speak out what I feel about the E60, which
I did not have a chance to spot them as you could.

What I remember, the first time I step inside the E60 in a car show,
I did not want to stay in there for more than 2 mins. That was because
I already experienced to be in a W211.
(The 7's is much better)

The BMW deisgners and engineers might have thought that through
some of your concerns. It could be the marketing department that forced
the budget cut , so that BMW models can be more competitive in price to MB.

The difference in prices might not significant to ppl in USA the biggest car market, where they change cars often anyway.
The 545i price tage in HK is USD105,000.
The E500 price tag in HK is USD120,000 ( not even full options )
We here bear high vehicle tax , and the 15,000 difference is not so much a big deal. This is why we demand maximum quality for money. And MB just managed to win our hearts.

cnt

MMAfia

bwaahahahaa... dayum, i remember those days... back in the philippines and in korea it's the same deal. i remember pimping in a 260E over a decade ago as a HS kid like that was the shiznit. even a 190E 2.3-16 was the shiznit back then with 300% tax.

so glad to be in america mang. seriously... it sux back there... everything based also on engine displacement nonsense...

there would be no way i would have enjoyed the cars i have in this country back in those places. HELLZ NO!!!

i go back these days for the chics. HANDS DOWN, MUCH better looking than the asian chics here... can we say turkey town or 588????