When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
Does anyone know if there is any cheap wheel that would fit over the brakes? I should have investigated this months ago.
Maybe you can get some cheap S-class wheels from a local junk yard?
I think any S-class wheel from like 2006 forward will fit. I don't know when the bolt seat diameter changed for S-class cars but E-class cars changed from 12mm for W210 to 14mm for W211.
I have a full-sized spare from a newer S-class that I throw in the trunk when I go on longer drives.
Almost 2 months since the accident. Current status: insurance company still doesn't think they need to pay more than NADA. Wow. They even hired what appears to be a local appraiser (my state) who said as much, in writing. Problem is, that's not what the law says. My appraiser sent an elevating e-mail to them yesterday and I will absolutely follow up with a formal complaint with my state's insurance regulation department. The law is clear. Book value has been established as a MINIMUM but if the value is higher, that value must be paid. There's no way around this. I have the regs right in front of me. Side note, that appraiser did a stupid thing by saying what he said (and referencing what appears to be an irrelevant regulation, with a false claim about the law so good luck to him in this - I have his license number).
What a pain dealing with a difficult insurance company. I'm surprised their adjuster didn't offer another $2k (still too low) just to make it go away. Thanks for the update. This may be a good lesson for anyone with a lower mileage E55 or wagon to seek a stated value policy.
Almost 2 months since the accident. Current status: insurance company still doesn't think they need to pay more than NADA. Wow. They even hired what appears to be a local appraiser (my state) who said as much, in writing. Problem is, that's not what the law says. My appraiser sent an elevating e-mail to them yesterday and I will absolutely follow up with a formal complaint with my state's insurance regulation department. The law is clear. Book value has been established as a MINIMUM but if the value is higher, that value must be paid. There's no way around this. I have the regs right in front of me. Side note, that appraiser did a stupid thing by saying what he said (and referencing what appears to be an irrelevant regulation, with a false claim about the law so good luck to him in this - I have his license number).
If you haven't contacted an accident attorney already, do so asap.
Read my long story about my car being hit in 2015 and the journey I had getting a higher payment. The lucky me I was able to buy it back in 2020. However in. Ooor shape and dropped 25k in redoing lots of it and bodywork to clean up the poor repairs and replacing all the carbon fiber items is still left to be done. I really need to update that thread
Most will not take a case unless there are injuries. Then even if they did 30% of the payout wouldn’t be worth it.
And I'm not willing to give up 30% of the claim, either. I sent a lovely e-mail to the corporate appraiser and my claims rep explaining the whole thing and that I will be forced to file a complaint with the state regulation department if they don't do the right thing. I also vaguely threatened legal action. More importantly, I declared I'd be getting my legal fees back since this was totally their error. We'll see how that plays.
I do think everyone that operates in this state is under a general misunderstanding of what the law actually is. Even the body shop told me something similar well over a month ago.
What happened in 2014 as far as I can tell is RI implemented a rule that said insurers are not allowed to low ball total loss payouts and must use book value as a minimum. That works for 99%+ of claims. But in my case actual value is substantially higher than NADA. And here is the key sentence from this bulletin:
Insurers are, however, required to pay the actual loss and if that amount exceeds the minimum value the insurer must pay the higher amount.
And I'm not willing to give up 30% of the claim, either. I sent a lovely e-mail to the corporate appraiser and my claims rep explaining the whole thing and that I will be forced to file a complaint with the state regulation department if they don't do the right thing. I also vaguely threatened legal action. More importantly, I declared I'd be getting my legal fees back since this was totally their error. We'll see how that plays.
I do think everyone that operates in this state is under a general misunderstanding of what the law actually is. Even the body shop told me something similar well over a month ago.
What happened in 2014 as far as I can tell is RI implemented a rule that said insurers are not allowed to low ball total loss payouts and must use book value as a minimum. That works for 99%+ of claims. But in my case actual value is substantially higher than NADA. And here is the key sentence from this bulletin:
I don't see any ambiguity in that.
I agree with you but in my accident I wasn’t at fault and had full docs and pics on all mods totaling $30k and told to kick rocks bc my policy didn’t cover that. How is it up to my policy bc I’m not at fault. Problem for me was we both had the same insurance comp and they sure weren’t going to pay more if they could keep stonewalling.
Just jumped on this thread. last July driving my 2013 Audi a5 Cabriolet back from Colorado ran over a truck brake shoe in Charleston WV, shoe attachment went thru oil pan into engine. Cost to replace engine and misc. parts and minor body work, $18,000 +. Insurance company totaled the car.
their 1st offer was about $18,500 - Refused the offer. My policy is for 100% replacement, asked them to replace with sim to car. I did what you have done, pulled all kind of Comps, 2013 Audi A5 w/Prestige package at 95,000 miles. Gave info to the adjuster, 2 days later he came back with and offer of $22,500.
It was well within the average of the comps I did and accepted the offer. My insurance Company is Cincinnati Insurance, has been since 1994.
Was reasonably painless just a pain. But got my E400 wagon with the $$ and a lot more $$$.
Sorry you are going thru this, I learned years ago from my Jaguar and Audi dealer that Progressive, State Farm, Allstate & General were awful to deal with, asked who's the best to deal with they gave me Erie (if business vehicle), USAA, Travelers and Cincinnati
I initiated a complaint with the RI DBR. I have heard zero response from Progressive since I wrote my nastygram last week. I guess it's in the state's hands now (which is terrifying).
I do think I will be calling both the corporate appraiser and my claims rep because e-mail has been pretty terrible, but I like e-mail because of the paper trail. I am not sure if they are just stalling, or somehow haven't seen the e-mails.
The article on totals provides both misleading and incorrect information. To start with the data base companies are not owned by the carriers. They are independently licensed by each state where they offer valuation services. Primarily they are unmonitored once approved by a state and currently provide incorrect total loss valuations 75% of the time. Additionally, the results they purport can be biased based on the review of the vehicle performed either in person or by photo. Your article mentions the use of an appraisal that is submitted by the insured. The facts here do not address that one needs to invoke the appraisal clause which forces the insurance carrier to also obtain an independent appraisal. This then leads to a comparison and resolution based on the independent results of each. The appraisal method can be a slippery slope for those who are unfamiliar with the process. We would be happy to write an article that more clearly describes the total loss process and pitfalls that many vehicles owners encounter. Our opinion is that such an article would actually help the consumer in what can be seen as a vulnerable time. At the current time the average vehicle owner is being presented with a total loss settlement offer that can be as much as 60% below (AVC) actual cash value. We have had some that are 300% below ACV. Age and or type of vehicle does not enter into the incorrect valuations. John Walczuk ZB Negotiations
Sooooo...I found the company website, called the number and wouldn't you know, John answered the phone. Talked to him for 30 minutes.
All signs point to a few things. First, I might just want to wait for the state to conduct its investigation and make some kind of decision. I am not holding my breath for a miracle. That said, we are at a stalemate with the appraisals. I don't like the appraisal Progressive purchased (hardly seems like an appraisal) and they don't like mine. The next step is we agree on an umpire (another IA) who will make some kind of decision. They may choose one of the appraisals, or conduct their own. I think the results of that are binding. That's why I want to wait for the state. John also said in his experience the umpire tends to come up with an appraisal that ends up falling between the two original appraisals, although comps are so sparse for these cars that you can't play too many games, which is why my guy originally expected this to be quick and easy...anyway, the average value between book and my number would obviously be better than the original offer, but not good enough, especially considering how difficult this has been. I will divulge what my appraisal says when this is all done. As I said before, my analysis was pretty much spot on so it's not hard to figure it out.
I do think I can pick a good umpire who won't play games. John gave me some companies and my guy in CA recognized one of them and said he's going to give them a call. We can possibly grease the skids with a competent appraising company BUT there is one catch: Progressive probably won't agree to my choice, and I'm sure I won't agree to their choice. What then? I think this goes to arbitration.
I don't want to enter into the umpire process unless I am 100% sure that the one chosen is actually good at their job, and Progressive may not agree to that choice. So unless the state performs a miracle, it SEEMS like this will end up in arbitration.
By the way, the supervisor is still adamant that the state law/regs say book value is all the car is worth. It's kind of unbelievable and my guy in CA, and John (from ZB Negotiations) says he's never seen this before. We can be mad at Progressive but I have a feeling this is some crappy RI situation but I still think the law is on my side. The 2014 state bulletin is crystal clear that the actual value must be paid.
I’m a noob who joined to pick up an AMG off the forum and stumbled onto your saga.
I was thinking of reasons why Progressive seems to be ignoring your local regulation and I’m curious if the language in the RI ruling states somewhere that the “market value” is particular to cars for sale in your state.
If your dataset of comps is ~20 points nationally and your adjusters are only referencing four 2004s, I wouldn’t guess any are for sale in Woonsocket.
It's dumber than that. Progressive doesn't really believe a real appraisal is required. They believe the law says the value = book value. Clearly in cases where the insured (me) feels that the book value is too low (it was designed as a minimum), the Appraisers Rule can be invoked. The thing that blows my mind is the paid a local appraiser (who I assume is really a damage appraiser) to write on a piece of paper that the value of the car = NADA. Makes me wonder what they told him as far as the situation. It's normal for a damage adjuster to use book value to understand where the 75% cutoff point is for a total loss. But we're talking about the actual market value of my car. I did not see any wording about requiring RI comps. In my case, comps must be dealer comps.
I will see when I get something out of the DBR. I'll take a stab at the result of that:
- They agree with me that actual value must be paid even if more than the minimum. But since the two "appraisals" on record disagree, this must go to an umpire to decide. The problem is, if they require the umpire to have a RI license (my guy does not - and I don't think most national appraisal services have licenses in all 50 states - he provided a non-binding appraisal, not a damage adjuster services, that's what the license is really for). I am not sure I am going to find a competent RI-based appraiser. And if I don't feel comfortable with my options I guess I'll ask the state what I can do. I assume it goes to arbitration.
In the meantime I need to strip insurance back to comprehensive.
Has anyone established an "Agreed Value" policy on these cars (or other cars in your collection)? If so, what was involved in setting up that policy and how much more did it cost when compared to the standard policy?
I have a lot of money invested into the restoration of my car and I recognize that it has value well over NADA, but we see that insurance companies do not.
I've been using Agreed Value plans for a few years now. It's the way to go for these kinds of cars.
Was using Hagerty and recently switched to their competitor, Grundy. Cost is 1/3 of what my primary insurer would be.
The only real catch is that it must be a secondary insurance company (in other words, not used for your DD).
Yeah I will consider switching if I get another car like this. I just need to make sure I am not going to be in violation of annual mileage limits. I treated the E55 as a semi-DD so it's a little risky.
At this point I actually think I want this to go to arbitration. I think a judge would look at everything that's happened and the "appraisal" that Progressive bought and ridicule both Progressive and the RI appraiser. The judge may even just go with mine. I don't think I should have to pay for an umpire because of the invalidity of the appraisal that Progressive bought. No arguing with this appraiser has resulted in any progress.
I got a hold of my full insurance policy contract language. I am insured for ACV, or Actual Cash Value. ACV is defined as "g. The actual cash value is determined by the market value, age, and condition of the vehicle at the time the loss occurs."
Furthermore, there is a whole section on the appraisal process:
APPRAISAL If we cannot agree with you on the amount of a loss, then we or you may demand an appraisal of the loss. Within 30 days of any demand for an appraisal, each party shall appoint a competent appraiser and shall notify the other party of that appraiser’s identity. The appraisers will determine the amount of loss. If they fail to agree, the disagreement will be submitted to a qualified umpire chosen by the appraisers. If the two appraisers are unable to agree upon an umpire within 15 days, we or you may request that a judge of a court of record, in the county where you reside, select an umpire. The appraisers and umpire will determine the amount of loss. The amount of loss agreed to by both appraisers, or by one appraiser and the umpire, will be binding. You will pay your appraiser’s fees and expenses. We will pay our appraiser’s fees and expenses. All other expenses of the appraisal, including payment of the umpire if one is selected, will be shared equally between us and you. Neither we nor you waive any rights under this policy by agreeing to an appraisal.
When you combine this with the 2014 DBR bulletin establishing book value is a minimum but that if the value is higher, the higher value must be paid, I think this is open and shut.
I do need to give the state a chance to weigh in. I don't know what they'll say or how they'll communicate. But if they say that I have to do the umpire process I might actually push back and say, no, I want a judge on this straight away. We'll see. I also want this under a judge's eyes because I think an additional state clarification needs to be made to insurance companies. No one should have to go through this. If Progressive wants to change how they price policies or how they take into account book vs market value in the future, that is their choice but NOT my problem at this time.
Any updates? My insurance company of 6 years just left the state and I ended up insuring with .... Progressive! They had the best rates, and I was just reading through the policy about the umpire and appraisers in case of a dispute on values.
Any updates? My insurance company of 6 years just left the state and I ended up insuring with .... Progressive! They had the best rates, and I was just reading through the policy about the umpire and appraisers in case of a dispute on values.
to cover an E that has mods and all you want protected it’s best to get an “agreed value” policy. You will need a specialty insurance comp
Any updates? My insurance company of 6 years just left the state and I ended up insuring with .... Progressive! They had the best rates, and I was just reading through the policy about the umpire and appraisers in case of a dispute on values.
The state responded. And it sounds like they are incompetent. They also sent me Progressive's response which was from mid-November, burning two months with nothing to show for it. So I sent a nice reply back to them. Meanwhile it looks like we are going to attempt to work into the umpire process with the appraiser that Progressive hired. We won't agree on umpires though so I assume arbitration is in my future. But before I lock myself into a binding decision I want to understand as much as possible about the process. As long as someone who represents me (i.e. my appraiser) is able to speak to the umpire and the judge, I have SOME confidence that this could work in my favor. I get the feeling that a lot of what happens in RI is just done because it's been done that way. Kind of the culture here.
One thing that is happening is Progressive, Progressive's hired appraiser AND the state seem to be ganging up on my appraiser and trying to make an argument that he's not licensed in RI (he's in CA). But the state is using terms like "public adjuster." The thing is, my appraiser hasn't done ANY damage adjustment/appraisals here. That is not the function of the settlement dispute appraisal clause. I cannot find any RI law/reg that explains the license process for retail market appraisals. I think that's because there is no license for it. I feel like I need a lawyer but I'm not ready for that yet. Meanwhile the market is declining rapidly and I can't wait to see how many thousands of dollars are lost just because everyone is incompetent.
My main legal complaint is, I have an appraisal clause in my insurance boilerplate and Progressive, Progressive's appraiser and the state don't seem to understand the process or purpose of it. Kind of blows my mind.
I also get the feeling that this is not a corporate Progressive problem. I get the feeling this is a problem contained to my state. Even the state was like "looks like they met the minimum requirement by offering book value." Like my Progressive local claims office, they, too, ignored the blurb that if the value is HIGHER, that value must be paid. They also are ignoring how you would establish a higher value than book. I am certain that in many, many states, Progressive customers are able to use the appraiser's rule with no pushback. I mean, that's pretty much what my appraiser said. I've never heard about any state jurisdiction issue with this process. I just love my state.
That said, I have half a mind to call other insurance companies - maybe starting with the company whose customer rear-ended me and is 100% at fault for that - and see if I can even talk to a claims person. I'd like to run this hypothetical scenario by them and just see. I'm not sure the result of that discussion is highly valuable though, which is why I haven't done it yet. I guess the idea is to get any insurance company who does business in RI to admit that they actually do recognize the retail market appraisal process. Again, by all RI laws/regs that I've seen (and my own damn insurance policy language) all signs point to the fact that everyone is incompetent.
That said, I have half a mind to call other insurance companies - maybe starting with the company whose customer rear-ended me and is 100% at fault for that - and see if I can even talk to a claims person. I'd like to run this hypothetical scenario by them and just see. I'm not sure the result of that discussion is highly valuable though, which is why I haven't done it yet. I guess the idea is to get any insurance company who does business in RI to admit that they actually do recognize the retail market appraisal process. Again, by all RI laws/regs that I've seen (and my own damn insurance policy language) all signs point to the fact that everyone is incompetent.
Just called Esurance which is the insurer for the guy who rear ended me (he was at the end of the 5 car line, I was #4). Anyway I ended up talking to the same adjuster who called me initially. It was not a productive conversation as I predicted. She would not answer my question. She even speculated that if I called customer service and inquired as a potentially new customer they also would not answer my question. Did I mention I hate insurance?
All I really have is pressuring the state (good luck, right?) and working with my appraiser, who, by the way, has VASTLY exceeded the number of hours expected for $250. He has contacts all over the place including the IAAA and one bubba based in NJ who appraises all the high end cars. That guy said I am right, fwiw.
It's been 5 months since the accident and I went back and forth with the state DBR a few more times. They more actively attempted to close my complaint and I responded one last time. To my surprise, I got an e-mail and a phone call from the General Counsel and Chief of Regulatory Compliance (basically, the head attorney on the insurance side of the DBR).
I was unable to take the call but called him back the next day (earlier this week). We spoke for almost 90 minutes. It was actually a pretty good conversation. Essentially, I was right about basically everything ALTHOUGH the state doesn't have the ability to administratively force Progressive to do certain things (things he admitted they probably needed to do by contract language but ultimately may need a court/judge to enforce).
There is a lot to summarize but there are a few really key takeaways:
- There is no RI license for retail market appraisers or umpires (just as I thought)
- The DBR had become concerned that my appraiser was acting more as an attorney or public adjuster but within 5-10 minutes on the phone with the DBR attorney, he realized I was in control of this whole deal and said he was satisfied with that.
He said he was going to call Progressive one last time. He is NOT my attorney and doesn't represent me but he told me he could ask them if they are exposing themselves to legal liability. It's a veiled way of saying "hey morons, you could get sued here, and since I brought it up, I think your customer has a fairly strong case against you, at least from our perspective" or something along those lines. He admitted he couldn't tell me the result of the conversation or what was said.
Separately, I sent one last nastygram to both the Progressive claims supervisor and their numb-nuts appraiser that they hired. I said, please reach out to the General Counsel and Chief of Regulatory Compliance because you guys are both wrong with the RI license thing. This was not a bluff - on my phone call he said to refer them to him for education.
So here's the big update. I got a call from the claims supervisor on Friday basically asking if it would be OK with me if they went ahead and did a real retail market appraisal. I was stunned. You mean....do your job? No way! I said, yeah, do that, but WHY didn't you do this 4 months ago?? He mumbled something about my appraiser and I let it slide. I said I am going to state several conditions right off the bat:
1) My appraiser gets to be in the loop to negotiate, per the process
2) If we can't agree, I may still request an umpire
3) I will continue working with the DBR on this because this should NOT have happened
So that's the update. Obviously I'm gaming out all the new possible scenarios. There are like no comps right now from what I can see. Hopefully they don't pull some BS like "well we can't find any comps so we're going with book value." No, no, no. If you can't find any comps, we're going with my original appraisal, chief. Else, it's court time.
The Progressive claims supervisor called me again yesterday morning. He said I was right; they had to increase their search radius to nationwide. The suspense is building. I should have a response from them today or tomorrow.
Auto Trader has 11 dealer comps.
Using those comps I'm showing about a 7% market decline, at least in my mileage range.
10-07-2022, 12:27 PM
