Benzor1

I've been documenting my bringing my E55 back to life here in another thread, but felt this one needed a dedicated discussion. Car has 134k miles.

Since I got the car, there's been a little rumble / vibration between 1700 rpm and 2000rpm : barely present at low speed but very noticeable above 50 miles an hour.

I feel like it has gotten worse with my set of winter tires on, now vibrates up to 2300rpm or so. I had the wheels and tires balanced, they're new tires, and that's not it.

Here are the things I've done :
- Changed the transmission fluid and filter. Was gross grey coming out but no glitter : I gather many of us have seen same from 722.6. Did it last month. I reset the transmission adaptations using the 2 min gas pedal procedure. Vibration was present before and since, but is worse now.
- New radiator / trans cooler (integrated, not separate) and new coolant
- Transmission mount 1 year ago
- I replaced the transmission electrical connector
- Replaced front and rear flex joints and driveshaft center support 2 years ago
- Rear diff fluid : wasn't especially bad coming out, new fluid in.
- Replaced all four corners air suspension
- Front sway bar links
- Replaced 1 of 2 front lower control arm
- Had an alignment
- Engine mount last month. I unbolt the steering rack carrier to do it : I figured it is an exact fit for pan bolts into the subframe, so I didn't need a new alignment.


Here are the observations and tests I've done :

- Vibration is bad enough that you can see objects inside the car vibrating. I can't tell the frequency, but it is possibly a couple times per second. It isn't a high speed whine.
- There isn't a big noise. There's no gear grinding noise whatsoever.
- Car tracks straight, no pulling
- There is no lurching at accompanies the vibration
- Engine itself sings when you pin the throttle, doesn't feel like a misfire.
- There is steering wheel vibration that accompanies the vibration. This vibration is present when in neutral at 70mph.
- In the rpm range (1800-2300rpm), vibration is clearly worse when under load : going up a hill at that rpm it is way worse than flat. Sounds similar to this thread with no resolution.
- When I hop from 4th gear to 5th gear at highway speeds, vibration present in 5th gear at 75mph / 2200 rpm (present in the whole range of 60mph to 80+), but vibration significantly less bad in 4th at same speed (75mph, 2800rpm).
- I have no trouble manually shifting gears : it goes in just fine.
- I have some occasional 5mph noise like brake squeal, but I assume it is unrelated and just need to lube the pads
- Car has no issues below 40mph

Conclusions So what I take away from this is that there is a car speed dependency and an engine rpm dependency. I'm assuming that this is something in the driveline exciting the vibration, given that it is way worse when on throttle. It feels possible to me that I have two coupled issues, one main issue being driveline, and a secondary issue responding in the suspension.

Here are my remaining hypotheses :

- Could this be a bad conductor plate in the transmission?
- I have a bad speed sensor in transmission? However, I had no jerkiness.
- Could this be a bad torque converter? Or torque converter lockup solenoid?
- Could I have glycol contamination from old radiator (not that I saw any evidence in coolant) that persisted since the trans fluid change?
- I have the wrong fluid level in transmission. This was happening before and after the transmission fluid change, but is worse since. I followed the procedure carefully to put in the 3.5L, then take it for a 20 min drive, then use the temperature specific marking.
- I have a bad differential. I know the differential pinion seals are leaking (spray pattern, and I recently changed fluid so know it is now full) However, I have no differential whine.
- Somehow I messed up driveshaft installation, and either forgot a preload on center support bearing or didn't index the two halves correctly using the factory markings. However, on lining up the two halves I did it very intentionally, and wrote about doing so on the forum, so seems unlikely.
- Front lower control arm I didn't replace. Ball joint still passes the shake test though (12-6 and 3-9 no play). However, I don't understand how this would change when I shift gears.
- Some other suspension arm I haven't replaced is badly gone, causing steering wheel vibration
- I have a bad transmission. However, it shifts fine and holds the power, so this seems unlikely.

- I have a bad wheel bearing. However, I can't see this producing the vibration with no noise.
- I have a bad CV shaft. However, all boots are intact and no grease spray, and I don't get any clicking when I go around corners.
- Something else is bad with the engine, which is causing the rpm dependency.


Welcome your thoughts on other tests I can do to try to figure this out !

cdk4219

You need to determine if the vibration is from the converter forward or transmission backwards. If it is rpm activated in any gear at a certain rpm, it is converter forward. If it is strictly speed related at a certain rpm, then it is transmission backwards. Does it do this in neutral?

Benzor1

Good points @cdk4219

The vibration is present in neutral. It is not nearly as bad as when you're on the gas pedal in gear, but it is present in neutral.

I'll run some tests holding it in 3rd and 4th at this RPM to test. My guess is that it is much more RPM dependent than speed, therefore converter forward.

Baltistyle

I see youve done a tranny mount.

Have you tested the engine mounts? That’s a common source of vibration and maybe vary based upon acceleration.

easy enough to quickly check

good luck.

my first thoughts would be wheel bearing or diff.

Benzor1

Hi @Baltistyle Thanks for the note. Yes, I just replaced the engine mounts.

SICAMG

Hey Bruce,
Is it there in park/neutral ? If so than it's in torque converter forward.
Check the engine harmonic dampner and see if it's coming apart.

Benzor1

Hey @SICAMG , nice to hear from you man !

I just went out to test : When sitting at a standstill, revving it in Park, there is nothing through the whole rpm range. Same for neutral. So that sounds like it is not the harmonic dampner. I had inspected it a couple weeks ago, and couldn't see any major cracking. Thanks for the suggesting.

SICAMG

OK that's a start. So now it will be from, including, the torque converter back.
Double check the drive shaft. You can do this by jacking up the rear off the ground and run up the car in drive to the rpm and speed that the issue manifests from. If it's doing it...it's in the shaft or possibly the rear axles.
Process of elimination and then we will go from there so do this first and let us know.

Benzor1

Good test @SICAMG , will do that on the lift next weekend to test, great suggestion.

nemiro

Carrier bearing on the driveshaft, perhaps?

Benzor1

Hi @nemiro , I thought about that too, but I replaced it with a new one last year ! The vibration pre-dated the carrier bearing replacement.

nemiro

Can at least check and make sure the rubber isolator around the bearing hasn't torn for some reason.

Benzor1

Can do @nemiro

LordBowral

My 2007 E350 doing exactly the same thing .. driving me crazy …. About to give up and get a 2011 S class

Benzor1

Hi Folks

It took me a couple days to get the car up on the lift, here's what I found :

@SICAMG I ran it in drive on the lift. The vibration is noticeable on the lift at same RPM point, but nowhere near as severe as on the road.

@cdk4219 On the road, the vibration is present in every gear when you pass through that RPM range, but about 10x as bad in 5th gear compared with all the others.

@SICAMG Vibration damper on crank pulley looks intact to me. A little hard to see, but I've included the best shots I could get below.

​​@nemiro , the center support bearing looks fine to me. There is some tailings from the rubber casting, but I don't believe it is cracked. I made a video of shaking it. I also took a picture of the alignment marks confirming driveshaft is back together correctly.

The only other thing I could find was that the in/out play for the rear axle shafts from the differential is visible. I don't feel anything by hand radially, but in/out there's real movement. Could this be symptomatic of a bad diff bearing, or just wear on the keeper used to contain the axle shaft?

Benzor1

And here are the videos

cdk4219

I would guess the torque converter. Is there a chance that the trans is overfilled? I have an r230 with the same issue, but it’s livable, and I am leaning towards the converter. I have changed the motor and trans mount, but it has a vibration at about those rpm levels. Mine does it in neutral though,

SICAMG

.

cdk4219

It at the same rpm in different gears, not at the same wheel speed, it’s happening under load at the specific engine rpm in each gear, the wheel and axle speed isn’t relevant at this point

E63007

I fully removed the exhaust on my 2007 E63 in order to do my Rear Main Seal, Intermediate Driveshaft Bearing, DS Rubber Disc’s, all 8 Rear Subframe Bushings, wheel Carrier Bushings, Hubs & Rotors, Swapped my 2.82 Ring & Pinion for 3.06 + LSD and when I finally got it on the road, I had a vibration which increased in volume and could be felt and was due to my Rear Diff not being set right, so out it came to be redone to take care of that issue. What felt like a drone at low speed (I wouldn’t dare go higher than 35mph!) was due to the Pinion Bearing not being set correctly as well as the Axle Bearings being installed without the Case being split! That was a lesson learned the hard way, I can tell you! Nevertheless, once I got that back in, at higher speed but always at the 2000 rpm level in each gear, I felt a sort of harmonic vibration which was very annoying and it turned out to be the exhaust bolts needing a little extra torque. Aside from the TCU repair I had to do a few months later which left me stranded on the side of the road, my E63 has been driving like a champ! Fortunately my Axles still have good rubber and seem to be in very good shape.

austingtir

You 100% did the transmission mount and its installed correctly?

Its crazy the vibrations that can come through that mount. I recently did two w204 c200's with the 722.6 and they both had crazy vibrations from 2000rpm up I was almost convinced when I did the first one the trans or something else was poked. Did the trans mount and it was perfect again and the old trans mounts didnt even seem that terrible just a tiny tear and dropped about 4mm compared to the new one.

LordBowral

yes, I did the transmission mount and it made a big difference. The old one looked the same as the new one. In other words. It wasn’t all torn, but the difference is remarkable. Can someone please tell me what the gas pedal reset transmission procedure is please?

nd-photo.nl

The 2nd method worked for me in my CLS55

sp3nny

I just went through extremely situation to OP. Very heavy vibration along with some strange noises from around 1800-2700 rpm, sometimes kinda mellow, other times very violent.

The CSB on my driveshaft had snapped the bolts, so it was literally hanging doing nothing, and my flex discs were both cracked and worn. Replaced everything, and while somewhat better, still had a bad vibration in that RPM range.

What sold it for me, was that if you managed to get through that RPM range, to say 3000+, it drove fine. You could hammer the throttle and it would rip. If I remember correctly, the stock torque converter locks up at 3k RPM, which is why I had issues below that (my car is also an 03, so perhaps glycol contamination years back). The torque converter is failing in the slip range.

I replaced mine about 500 kms ago and am happy to report that my vibration is gone. However! I did have a continued vibration in P especially, at specifically 1800 and 2500 RPM. When I reinstalled the exhaust, something must have twisted, and it was sitting too close to the rear subframe on the passenger side. Once adjusted, the vibration was gone.

In all, I replaced CSB, flex discs, conductor plate, electrical connector, Sonnax overlap sleeves, torque converter, and fresh fluid. I also sent off the old fluid to Blackstone for examination. It had elevated levels of iron, which pointed to an issue. Fingers crossed it was from the torque converter, not anything else.

Just my experience from the past year. Might be helpful, might not.

Benzor1

Hi Folks

Short update , with some interesting findings.

- I put the summer tires back on, and while I still have the issue, it is nowhere near as severe. Clearly the winter tire wheel I had fixed and balanced (all 4 were balanced, 1 was "fixed" for a flat spot) was not right.

- I'm going to start by rebuilding both rear axles, seeing as they are leaking oil anyway, along with the oil seal going into diff.

- If that's not it, I think many signs point to torque converter.

Happy Saturday all.