schwarzwagen

this has got to be one of the most idiotic mb mods i have ever seen. do you really think a tech is not going to see this if they have to tear down the engine for warranty work? it provides no performance benefit but you are willing to risk voiding your warranty on a $30k plus engine over a $200 dollar part. brilliant!

Vadim @ evosport

Marcus, yes I am looking at adding further heat isolation to air boxes and even separating intercooler from kompressor. I will post further R&D shortly.
Thanks for pointing it out.


Not quite an air cooling plate, more like air isolating. Heat transfers from metal to metal contact. Placing a plastic isolator between metals prevents heat from the engine transferring into intake surge tanks. Now, 20-25F is not big in the scheme of things. However, spacers do make a small contribution in keeping car more consistent. And in a world of $5000 plus mods for this engine, something this simple and easy to install is always welcome.


Hmmm, I just love nay-say. Judging by your signature sir, you have no idea what 113.990/1 engine is all about. Nor do I think you have even driven one.
My suggestion would be for you to rent, if you can, an E/S/CL/SL/G/55 equiped MB. Drive it in 110F heat and 60F cold of SoCal and than you will understand the reason for this modification.

draggingcents2

I would like to get this set for my new 2005! Let me know.

adx

Living in Vegas where is does reach temperatures of 110F, I am sold. Will this be part of the EVOIII setup?

M5KILLR

ill have to order mine as i am east coast but im in too. and the 300sel genius, if your car blows up spend a half hour and take them off!!!

schwarzwagen

Judging from your assumption...yes I have been exposed to AMG supercharged cars, unlike some other ppl, I don't advertise it in my sig. Lets take a quick inventory of items I within 200 ft of my person. 1. Rolex, 2. E55k, 3. 300SEL, 4. C230k, 5. E500, 6. SL55. That being said, I think I can safely say that I have driven cars with the M113.990/1. And, in my experience a little bit of heat soak is not enough of a problem to risk the warranty. I also don't believe that a spacer is going to make the difference because you as yet, have not explained how it works. This begs the question: why did MB not incorporate your ingenious solution to production engine design? But then again, you are smarter than me and I guess by association, MB engineers as well.

schwarzwagen

Committing fraud against the dealership is real noble of you. You do realize that the cost of your transgression would get passed on to the rest of us. Let me be the first to say, "Thanks."

saber

I race the quarter mile often and participate in many car events. My car is modified and heat is a HUGE issue with this engine. The engine is extremely inconsistent because of the intercooler arrangement under the supercharger. This is a great mod and can be reversed in 10 minutes. It should not void the warranty because it can not be responsible for engine damage. That being said, the dealer will make every effort to void the warranty even if it is uncalled for. Because of that, I have no problem undoing this simple, effective and safe mod before I bring the car in for service. Everyone is allowed an opinion. This board is about many things that make the car better/faster. Please keep that in mind when you make comments.
Thanks

gmdebruyn

Despite the nay sayer here, he does bring up a valid point. Does this void my warranty? Please advise. Because if it does, then if my water pump dies 1 year in and the whole engine fries or some other strange thing happens, we're all SOL for adding a part that looks very much like it helps the engine!!!

Gareth

Beowulf

SEMA has an excellent section that addresses aftermarket parts and their potential effect on vehicle warranty issues. See: http://www.enjoythedrive.com/content/?id=8124

Vadim @ evosport

Hmmm, I was not aware that Rolex made cars. I guess we ALL learn something new every day.

You have obviuosly not driven these cars hard enough. Heat soak is number one complaint from the owners of Kompressor cars. Just read the posts on this and other boards.


Not quite an air cooling plate, more like air isolating. Heat transfers from metal to metal contact. Placing a plastic isolator between metals prevents heat from the engine transferring into intake surge tanks. Now, 20-25F is not big in the scheme of things. However, spacers do make a small contribution in keeping car more consistent. And in a world of $5000 plus mods for this engine, something this simple and easy to install is always welcome



On why did MB engineers not incorporated spacers is the question that they can only answer. Look at how many plastic manifold designs are starting to appear on production cars, including newer MB.

As far as me being smarter than you - OK, if you believe so. But you got to have more self-confidence about yourself.

RU_MATRX

So, I guess if you don't advertise all of those vehicles while sitting at the dealership or even if you do own them, you sure are boasting blatantly about
being so "humble" as to not include them in your signature. Why even introduce your inane Rolex?

I'm sorry to lay it flat out for the audience here, but your quick assumptions regarding "heatsoak" doesn't show much knowledge to basic physics as well as to the fact that you so quickly pose the issues of warranty and liability to a well-known hotrodder's trick to reduce intake temps and thermal conduction. Ever hear of plenum spacers/intake spacers or even lower temp thermostats for the coolant (3 degrees makes a significant difference). Out of all of the performance vehicles I've owned the SL55 produces the most amount of heat very quickly. It affects not only the entire engine compartment but standing near the fender as well. That's called thermal conduction and convection. Dissipating heat as quickly as you can between runs can mean great differences in engine performance at the dragstrip. "Heatsoak" within the engine and adjacent heat-conducting materials is the enemy of consistent, optimal performance on runs.

An analogy to your case for voiding the warranty on your MB could be made in this example. If you don't use the MB recommended Mobil Synthetic 0W-40 in your vehicle, you assume MB is ready to void your warranty if there is ever an issue with the engine? They could prove the organic oil caused an engine problem vs. the unlikeliness of using synthetic oil? Using NON-synthetic oil on an AMG 5.5L Kompressor V-8 as MB recommends has a much higher chance of creating a case for the MB witch-hunter in the event of non-warrantied engine problems than any inert intake spacer ever could. Im not impressed by your presumptuous credibility and skeptical knowledge based on the remarks I'm seeing. As I'm sure many here would agree, citing vehicle ownership out of the blue (via a defensive posture) doesn't unilaterally support true insight, valid skepticism nor experience in the area of performance.

Vladim@Evosport: My question to you is how valid are the temp reductions of 20-25 degrees F for the intake charge? How was the intake spacer tested to acquire those results? I believe that this would help the enthusiasts here understand the effectiveness of this product while making a better-informed decision whether to invest in the "Intake Manifold Spacer."

RU_MATRX

Thanks Beowulf for sharing. I've witnessed SEMA to be universally cited as a good source on the question of aftermarket parts and their affect on manufacturer warranties. Every performance-oriented forum which I've ever been a member of has referred to SEMA when someone questions ECU upgrades, strut tower braces, +1/+2 wheel/tire upgrades, even K&N filters, etc. on the matter of "will it void my warranty?"

schwarzwagen

If you actually read what I said, you would notice that I said a "quick inventory of ITEMS." This does not imply purely car specific things, so...

People complain about everything, nothing is ever good enough. You should know this, that's why your company exists. As to not driving hard enough, I think a 1.314 (CW) at Streets of Willow in a C32 with a STOCK engine, 18s with SP SSRs, and coil-overs, is evidence to the fact that I can drive just fine. I do believe that is better than your car's time by 3-4 seconds (and does your car not have ~500hp?).

Ok, thanks for starting to explain this mod more thoroughly, was that so hard? I see how the plastic will lessen the transferring of heat from the engine to the intake, but heat rising off of the engine will still heat up the intake metal anyway, and once that has occurred, you are back to square one. I don't see how this mod will lower intake air temps consistently by 20-25dF.



BMW has been using plastic intake manifolds since 1990, so the technology has been around for some time. MB used plastic manifolds on the M104 as well. The reasoning still stands that if this was a worthwhile design element, MB would have already incorporated it.

I would not let you off that easily, Vadim.

schwarzwagen

When someone tells me that I have never driven/or seen a 55k based wholely on my sig, it is a little annoying. No boasting here, and the stupid watch was sitting on the desk. Why is that so offensive?

You are not sorry about anything, you are trying to sound smart. Do you really think an M113 displays the same characteristics as a stone age small block chevy? Just because some spacer works on a 350 does not mean it will have the same desired effect on an MB engine. Like I said to Vadim, if it was so great, MB would have used it in the original design.

MB approved synthetic engine oils (all models):

Mobile 1 SuperSyn European Car Formula 0W-40
Pennzoil European Formula Ultra 5W-30
Quaker State European Formula Ultra 5W-30
Castrol Syntec 5W-30
Quaker State Full Synthetic European Formula 5W-40
Pennzoil Synthetic European Formula 5W-40
76 Pure Synthetic Motor Oil 5W-40
Kendall GT-1 Full Synthetic Motor Oil 5W-40
Motul 8100 E-Tech 0W-40
Motul 8100 X-Cess 5W-40
Shell Helix Ultra 5W-30
Shell Helix Ultra 5W-40
Valvoline SynPower MXL 0W-30

So, I don't know where you get this one brand engine oil business from.

schwarzwagen

Ok, I am outa here. That's the extent of my interest for the next month or so.

DRCrowder

M5KILLR

thank you

zdkdeeier493

You know what would be a worthwile design element? ACTUAL ROTORS THAT ARE MADE FOR THE CORRECT SIDE OF THE CAR. MB/AMG made cuts on so many aspects of the E55 like this, or even the intercooler. That argument is insubstantial because MB didn't incorporate lots of worthwile design elements that personally I find quite frustrating. I think the mod is worth it, I'll be seein you soon Valdim.

RU_MATRX

Schwarzwagen. You are an entertaining poster.
The only thing I'm sorry about, again as presented in my previous post, is that you don't know how to "save face" with your defensive and irritating posture.

You presume and assume much about discussion topics while focusing on the inane details rather than the true topic at hand. Please let me spell this out to you in simple terms. Hot Rod tricks are based on "physics" and not "mutually exclusive" to Fords/Chevys. Additionally, I see that you like to continously take arrogant tangents away from the point of this entire thread: The IMS product and it's performance benefits and affects. Now, your response back to Vladim confirms your ignorance, narrow-mindedness and back-stepping. Isn't it ironic that writing gives one a great, superficial glimpse into one's mental state, character and personality? :p

Initially, you could have properly asked for an explanation on how the intake spacer acts as an insulator instead of a conductor, but you blatantly expound on your ignorance going on a tangent about warranties and how the MB AMG would have incorporated the IMS into the engine if it was so great. In summary, you call it the "most idiotic" fraudulent product ever created? It's not the point of being skeptical and condescending, it's your manner in tone and attitude. You then go ahead and presume sarcastically that an MB/AMG engineer is smarter than any tuner and because of this, he/she would have incorporated the IMS into AMGs years ago. How can you fail to recognize the fact that even mighty AMG has to design for the 90th percentile of the public on a global product. They compromise performance for warranty issues, 100K+ mile longevity, improper maintenance, poor gas, extreme weather conditions, etc.., let alone additional costs, R&D, packaging, complexity in service of additional parts, greater quality assurance workload, EPA/DOT (USA)etc.. Why doesn't MB AMG install OEM strut tower braces/rear tower braces, ECU upgrades, coil-overs, titanium exhaust systems with 100 cell count cats, etc..?? Liability is also a concern.

In regards to synthetic oils, thanks for taking the few seconds to search, paste and post. You quickly missed my point (again), as I was focusing on the general 0W-40 SAE std, API service grade aspect of synthetic oil which IS MB AMG recommended oil (Mobile One is OEM and used by the dealerships, not Pennzoil, not Quaker State, etc.) as a basis of my comparison to fossil fuels and a warranty analogy.

Finally, you offer no credentials to knowledge just based on the condescending tone and immaturity you've shown on this thread alone. You presume all-encompassing credibility by tracking stock C32s at the Big Track at Willow Springs? You feel that noone here on this forum has considerably more extensive experience and insight than you? I've tracked modified R1s at Willow does that confirm anything? Have you ever tracked a modified Porsche 996TT, S2000, Lotus Elise, Miata, Caterham 7 or a truly dedicated track car rather than an MB? I'm sure many here have. I'm not petty enough to list all of my assets (depreciating or otherwise) within "200ft of my person" nor discrete experiences in order to compensate and support my perspectives regarding the topic at hand.

Go re-read your introduction to this thread again and maybe learn some humility. Your ignorance and arrogance is why this thread continues. You confirm that you don't know how to debate/refuke, but follow the immature route of quoting to deride/back-step rather than support an active argument/viewpoint. Obviously, your reason for participating in this thread is NOT for shared knowledge as a true auto enthusiast nor is it to help evaluate the potential for a new IMS product through insight and experience. You don't care either as shown by your preconceived, rigid notions. Btw, I'm curious whether this is your m.o. in how you introduce yourself to people in person, vendors and new acquaintances. Thanks for imparting no knowledge to the topic, introducing no respectful and well-thought out questions, jumping to invalid conclusions so quickly, and.....

.......gracing us with your unwelcome presence. Here's an emoticon that's appropriate to your profile. May I suggest placing it in your avatar as you're missing it.

CynCarvin32

I think his comment about lap times at the streets of willow has something to do with vadim trying to saw he does not drive the kompressor car hard enough. If Brad can only muster a 1:34-1:35 with their 500 hp C32 (using larger tires and at least 10k more money in mods) then a C32 with Carlsson RS Coilovers, a Stoptech kit (front and back), forged 18's (with dunlop SP SSR tires) is clearly being driven harder than the far more modified car. So that clearly proves we push a kompressor car hard enough to see the troubles of heat soaking. Believe me when its 110 out in and you run a car flat out for 45 minutes straight... it heat soaks a bit...but we never go home wishing it went any fasater on the straights.

And the C32 has only put together a 1:37 at the big track but that was with worn out street tires (T1S's -- are terrible tires) and only one day at the track. Expect that time to fall to around 1:34 or 1:33 at the next track event (Big tracK) now that we have worked some items out. It is all about seat time.

gmdebruyn

based on how he worded that, my guess is that he works at the dealership. i'll leave you guys to determine to what level of responsibility.

Vadim @ evosport

Wow! Guys, please settle down. There is no need to get personal.

First of, let thank all of you for your support.

Second, I expect and actually look forward to any challenges and contrary veiws. In the end, they always keep me evaluating and re-evaluting everything I do and design - resulting in better products.

Let me restate the purpose of the spacers, now that I have a bit more time.

In real terms, day to day, once the spacers are installed, the difference will be subtle. Intake Manifold Spacers (IMS), simply lower intake manifold temperature by 20-25F, not air charge temperature (ACT). Please re-read the first post. The result is simply more consistency from cold engine to hot engine.

Now, I do wish that was an ACT, but that will require a bit more of hardware to accomplish. Our EVOIII Power Package does bring IAT from 170F to 135F, and I will post details very, very shortly.

Now, as far as lap time at Willow Springs Streets. In reality 500HP on that track with an open differential are a detriment. Our C32 literally smoked the inside rear tire for what seemed like 30-40 seconds per lap, as it struggled to put the power down. I am almost had a heart attack everytime tire smoke poured from behind the car. We are working on a diff solution for both C32 and E/CL/SL55s.

CynCarvin32

Ok no you are wrong. He is far to educated to work as the person you are trying to imply.

The cars were in my garage so if this is a dealership come buy my E55 for 90k.

What he wrote was worded perfectly so not sure what you are trying to get at.

Feel free to laugh at people -- but you are totally wrong.

RU_MATRX

Hey CynCarvin32, thanks for the objective perspective. See how ridiculous and wayward this thread migrates into when it becomes a pissing match in communications? All of this abstract cherry-picking of quotes that don't prove a point is why I responded again to Mr. Schwarzwagen. I like objective/subjective discussions as a mature audience without the baggage of condescending tones and attitude.