RossN

Okay, so if it is true that MB reads these boards, I have a suspicion that they are interested in what we think, and what we might desire.

This thread is to gauge the desire of a Light Weight factory car, similiar to what BMW, Porsche, and Ferrari have offered for years. It seems that the AMG brand is getting more and more performance oriented and this L/W car seems like a natural progression, is it not?

So, if available, would you purchase a L/W version of the E55? How about SL55, CLK55, SLK55 or CLS55?

Of course since the car is a Mercedes, Style, Quality and Luxury would still be paramount.

Your thoughts....

Brav

i highly doubt they would come out with a lightweight car. they are known for building tanks. but it would be nice to have a CLKDTM lightweight.

vraa

They have the CLK light weight.. the DTM....

I want a SLK55 on a diet. Imagine, something light, small and ****ing fast.

RossN

Agreed. But the DTM is hardly within the average Customers reach....

vraa

True, so true. What I would like is a C32 CSL.

Frank Wiesmann

For me, anything else than an SLK 55 AMG or maybe (big maybe) a C55 AMG lightweight does not make any sense. Upgrading the brakes on an E55 yes, but the CSL deal, no. It would lose too much comfort in my opinion. Whoever is looking for stellar handling should consider a Lotus Elise, Porsche GT3 RS, Corvette Z06 or the like. Anything else will still not satisfy, however lightweight it may be.

H-MAN

I would rather have another option with broader appeal...a manual transmission

Doctodd33

isnt the upcoming P8 (i forget the exact name) with 500HP normally aspirated a lightweight car? Expected launch in 2007 i think.

T

vraa

I don't want something as dedicated as a GT3 or a Noble or something as cheap as a Vette. I want a Mercedes with the automatic droptop, YET it can still hang with it's BMW brethen once we get into the twisties.

I'd rather take a MUCH faster manumatic then a manual or a pure automatic. Please Mercedes, source the SMG or DSG? For me?

RossN

Mercedes usually is not into Extremes, so I would imagine a Light Weight car being roughly a 60% "M3 CSL effort".

Not Lotus Elise light, goodness, where would the World Renown Safety level be that MB was worked so hard for all these decades? (Has BMW ever been renown for safety?)

So how much of a weight reduction becomes the next question.

I say 250 - 350 lbs.

Here are the current Vehicle curb weights from the MB website.
CLK55 - 3,635 lb/1,657 kg
CLS55 - ???
E55 - 4,087 lb/1,855 kg
SL55 - 4,235 lb/1,920 kg
SLK55 - 3,397 lb/1,540 kg


Maybe Carbon Fiber Hood, truck, doors and a Lighter Big Brake Kit (Brembo's), maybe do C/F for seat frames as well.

vraa

Well, what about lighter materials to make the engine out of? That won't compromise safety. What about removing that poor excuse of a sound system from HK and Bose? Those two are very good starts that'll satisfy the safety guys, and us purists.

3400 lb doesn't look that bad. Maybe shave off 400 for the SLK55 and you'll have a REAL screamer.

60% CSL is 60% more then what we currently have Every little bit counts I guess.

Don't forget the X5 is the best safety wise according to the NHTSA (or something like that) rollover wise and accident wise.

RossN

Do anything to bring the center of mass lower in the vehicle, that would automatically increase handling.

Not sure if there if there is anyway to lighten up the engine per say? Unless you start getting into exotic materials.

Anyone have the weight on the 55 series engine and driveline? Wonder if it "heavy" by today's standards.

vraa

Didn't Mitsu make their roof for the new Evo out of carbon fiber therfore droping the center of gravity by like 17mm from a 42 pound savings?

Exotic materials should be used in a 70K$ car, especially if it's supposed to come with a hand assembled engine!

No idea on the stats for the engine and tranny itself, I'll also try to help look.

Chappy

Not unless a manual transmission was made available as well

Mardeth

What Id like to see lightened ar the the items that rotate, meaning rims drive train, engine parts, brakes.

For example if you save 20 lbs on rims its equilevant to lightening the cars non rotational weight by 60lbs (a factor of around 3 and for engine parts like rods 15).

korveine

Make it out of Titanium! it's lightweight for it's strength. I would TOTALLY get that!

korveine

but titanium is $$$ tho! LOL

I would still get it

Korv

RossN

From the numbers on the poll, it looks like we have even voting on all models listed, with the exception of the CLS which isn't out yet.

We have several members expressing desires for the following;

- Manual transmission option. 6-Speed
I am sure there are more or us that would agree that a manual would do nicely, I do. I would assume a 6 speed is what we want here, maybe 7 speed?

- DSG type transmission
I would like to see that as well, and may negate a manual.

- Light weight rotating parts
Wheels, brake rotors, engine internals, driveshaft, etc.

- C/F body panels.
To include the roof like the Mitsu Evo. (Maybe the Mitsu engineers could offer input to the Benz engineers???)


- Wider wheel/tire combo's!
DC needs to build some upgrade room in the wells IMO. We should be able to go at least 30-40mm wider on all models. For instance, standard rear size on the E55 is 265 (rediculous for 500 hp!!!), a wider wheel/tire combo of around 285 or 295 might almost negate the need for the LSD. ROW doesn't need skinny 265's for highspeed drag reduction on the autobahn, so DC, please build in some upgrade headroom for the traction minded folk. DC, when accelerating, we should never see the ESP light come on in the first place. ESP = bandaid.

- Diet for heavy accessories
Stereo, seats, electronics in general...


Most certainly, if the L/W models did appear, they would require LSD included, after all a weight reduction would mean an even more traction limited car.


Any more idea's???

RossN

Forgot to add suspension upgrades.

I would also like to see a light weight ABC version of the suspension available. Unless DC can dial out 100% of body roll with Airmatic II then ABC should be an option. Instead of having several preprogammed suspension settings that are available, allow the Driver to set what he wants as far as body roll is concerned. It is a bit like climbing into a old car and you go to adjust the Ventilation Fan. You have Hi, Medium, and Low??? How primative. A rheostat would allow infinite adjustment between absolute High, and Off just like a Volume knob.

The Airmatic should be no different, if I feel like 0% Body Roll for the next hour because I am canyon carving, why shouldn't I have the ability. The damper, springs, and airbags don't care one way or the other. I couple of lines of code in the ECU and walla, instint happiness for you and me, and no more press complaining about sub-par vehicle dymanics??? We need "intelligent" software in the vehicles, not restrictive SW that assumes we are to dangerous or to stupid to make our own choices.

One more thing, I think it might be interesting to see a ABC car tuned to go beyond simply negating body roll, and "lean into" a corner like a motorcycle does. Although not to such an extreme, say maybe +0-5 degrees. Mercedes has in fact already done this with the concept car F400, click here for info.

Mardeth

Good ideas RossN. I do believe that these changes can be done without loosing comfort. Might be a good business idea . The good thing about lightening the car is that it affects acceleration, deacceleration and cornering.