Marcus Frost

Ameneties aren't your concern, they are for me. The IS is an entry level baseline luxury sedan. Driven them, they are definitely not even a candle light as compared to the 55K cars from the factory. Even with your horsepower you are not running a car that can compare to the 55k cars in an overall luxury and performance sense - end of story.

Yes, my Supra would blow the doors off your IS. I made 833rwhp with a mediocre tune on a block with only 264 cams. That turbo has taken a couple of auto Supras into the 9s at 140mph. I'm not going to compare d1ck sizes with you here, point being you are trying to tell me having only experience with 1 car, I'm telling you having experience with both. You give the 55k the same kind of development time the 2JZ has had (over a decade) and we'll see who's on top. Like I said, start looking for 55 cars trapping in the mid 120mph range on 91 octane within the next year or so. You try doing that for 20k+ miles on that 2JZ and you are going to have a motor barely keeping compression in all it's cylinders. Been there, done that. 2JZ does not like running pump gas above 550rwhp or so unless it's with a HUGE turbo and for a limited amount of time in the rpm band... otherwise it just doesn't last.

-m

Marcus Frost

1.) Anything higher than 93 octane is not pump gas, it's specialty gas. No OEM car is tuned for anything above 93 octane gas, which to me, signifies the "rules" when it comes to street cars.

2.) You obviously have 0 knowledge when it comes to forced induction small displacement cars to think you don't need octane to make big power with them. Refer to my post above, I've had a 1000hp Supra and if you think any 6 cylinder car can make 800, 1000hp with 93 octane and not explode you are living on another planet.



My Supra made over 300hp/L. Big deal. You learn after a while this stupid hp/l nonesense is something riceboys use to justify their lack of ability to make significant horsepower.



I could give a crap about an AA turbo m coupe. I owned an E46 M3. Great car, doesn't compare to the E55. Period. I can show you 1000+ hp street legal cars from all walks of life, and I can show you ones that are built for less than $10k including the price of the car. Big deal. You aren't proving anything. If I gave a damn about how cheap my car was to make fast I wouldn't be driving a Mercedes or a BMW for that matter. M113 Kompressor engines sell for around $40k-$50k from a dealer, you can pickup a 2JZGTE shortblock for about $3k. So what.

Your comment about the new GTR series of turbos from Garrett again proves your lack of knowledge in the subject since it's absolutely impossible to generalize the spool of a turbo without knowing 1.) the engine associated with it and 2.) the size of the turbo itself. There are GTR turbos that can spool much faster the 3krpm, and ones that'll spool much slower. To say they all spool at 3krpm is just nonsense.

If you want to read about my Supra you can do so here:

http://www.t04r.com/member.php?show=marcus.frost

BTW, it would put that M coupe to absolute shame on any racetrack.

-m

vraa

5 people on that ***** seat?

You might want to check your headliner trim.

Okay, I'm sorry, I never meant to keep the m3 in the discussion.

http://www.shotimes.com/SHO4_jayl.html

is300lex

How can you possibly say your supra would mop the floor with my IS300 when you know nothing about it= talkin out your ***. Why you chose a .96 a/r on that 73 I don't know, maybe you wanted it to spool slow? Besides your talkin about a car you dont even have anymore. I can see owning a MB has changed your life and now you and your car is unmatched...Until then I will be looking for some e55's with huge fmic's and enjoy rolling out on them. However chances are it will just be some 50yr old guy cruisin and playing with his amenities.

ProjectC55

Just a little correction.We have Sunoco 94 octane at the pump here in NJ and Euro oem cars in Europe run on 96 octane pump gas.

Also in comparing the E46 M3 to the E55k ,to me each ride is great at what it does.

Being the owner of both an AMG and a "M" presently,the AMG has more power and ammenities yes,but the M is more of a sporty drivers car you can toss around and drive hard on the track and street.Just a well balanced car.I dont feel an AMG has as well a balanced all around driving experience as an "M".So I cant fully agree with your assessment of the" E55k being a better car period"even though I love it.

The 3 series BMW's also have a better reliability record than a E class I may add.I figure maybe you made that statement out of the heat of your debate.

Personally I would not mind owning all 4 cars(E55k and E46M3 or E39 M5,Supra TT) at the same time.Right now I'll settle with my 4 toys that I own now.

ProjectC55

We are talking about cars! I thought.I can get a bike(gixxer zuk) as well.

Perfect Balance!Sounds biased to me. I think I summed that up in my last post.Balance does include handling and braking.Not better than the E46 M3.

Marcus Frost

Going off the video and having been around literally hundreds of single turbo 2JZs over the years, I can tell.

I didn't have a .96 A/R on my Supra, it's a type on t04r.com, I had a .81

Roll on them all you want, I could personally give a crap if some little IS300 with a big turbo "rolled on me" Give me 6 weeks and I'd have a 1st Gen DSM rolling back on you for under $10k including the price of the car. There's always someone faster.

BTW, most of us on here are not 50 years old, not even close. Many in our 20s and 30s (myself included) - so why don't you save that stupid stereotype for some other car group.

-m

Marcus Frost

[/b]

Incorrect. The Europeans, Aussies, and other countries rate their octane using the Resarch Octane method, or RON. We use the PON or (R+M)/2 method where we take the average of the Research Octane and the Motor Octane. The octane levels in other countries are, in fact, the same we have around here.



I'll give you that.



But the streets aren't a racetrack and unless you drive it more on the track than on the street (highly unlikely) then I feel it's characteristics as a street car matter more. If I want a race car I'll buy one and I always had to drive the M3 very hard in order to get the enjoyment I wanted out of it. The E55 is so graceful and yet brutally powerful that it can be the mundane E class to take a few associates downtown but turn up the wick and you'll me matched fender to fender with a 911 turbo on the highway ride back home. I don't really feel like going into one of these ///M versus AMG debates again, I just feel in shear terms of street driving the AMG is superior.



Pointless tidbit of info and not relevant - we're talking ///M and AMG. So far, my E46 M3 was effected by the 2nd round of crank bearing recalls, and I had more problems with it in the 5k miles I owned it than the 15k I've owned the E55 for. Still irrevlant and not applicable information.

-m

vrus

Not even close... There are quite a few people on this board between 25 - 35 that drive E55's.. I'm one of them. Alot of people on this board are gear heads; we don't drive stock cars.

We've got one member running 11.78 in the 1/4 with minor upgrades. Judging by what I saw in the video against the stock E55, you would probably have a hard time with this guy's car.

What do you think these cars will do when someone cracks open the block and gets creative with the heads & cam?

The big difference here is that an E55 is dual-personality car. You can drive it all day and enjoy its luxuries and no one would know its potential, or you can get heavy with your foot and walk most things on the road.

Like Marcus has mentioned a few times already; ANYTHING can be made to go fast given enough money. I can buy a $2,000 civic and throw on nitrous and huge turbo and run 9s.. Would I want to drive one??? HELL NO.

I'll look you up on the board when I am done with my motor. Maybe we can do another comparison using a modded E55 ??

BTW, I have nothing against you or your car. I happen to like the IS300 for what it is.. I only got my back up because you were attacking the car and the people that drive them. Peace.

AMGfan

IS300lex...bro your going to be 50 yrs old one day...age doesn't make a difference when you cruise...I'm not hating your game and you shouldn't do the same...

skratch77

If you knew anything about the gtr turbos you would know wich ones im talking about.gt30r,35r,40r all spool up 3 times faster than your old school turbo you had in your supra.

That gt35r in that m coupe builds full boost(22psi)on a little 3.2l at 3k.I showed you a car using a stock ecu not a 3k standalone like on the lexus and you failed to realise that hes RUNNING 93 OCTANE on a stock obd2 ecu.

My point was that you can make that power on low octane if you tune the car right.

Ics has an 550 rwhp m3 running on 91 octane and 630 something on 93.

Heres some vids of that mcoupe that you think your car would **** on.

vid 1

vid 2

vid 3

vid4

gt30r making 416rwhp at 9psi shutting down the dyno at 13psi

On pump gas.

ProjectC55

Thanks for the euro octane info! As far as the statement outlined , even if I don't agree 100% all I can do is respect your opinion. even still I enjoy both the massive torque and decent handling of my classy lil AMG and the fun sporty feel of both my 332i and M3.

Marcus Frost

[/b]

Wow, questioning my knowledge of turbos. First off, how many 1000hp turbo cars have you built smart boy? Zero? That's what I thought. Strike one.

Do you even know what kind of turbo I had in my Supra? Obviously toy don't because it was a GT40 hybrid build by Sound Performance, hence known as the SP73. Strike two clown.

3 even if I was running a T04R which is a relatively dated design turbos don't spool 3 times quicker on the same motor given the same size, genious. Go do some reading before you post anything again and I can make you look like a complete idiot 3 times from one of your sentences.



I made 730rwhp on an OBDII ECU in my car before going to the AEM. I'd have made high 500s to the wheels on 93 octane if I had cared about 93 octane back then. It doesn't impress me at all.



Bro, I don't know what you are trying to prove to me with your links... I can spit out tuner cars all day that will decimate any of the cars you posted, someone with 2 liter 4 cylinder engines. There are Supras that have made over 800rwhp on the dyno with 93 octane... who cares. That is never going to last. The only cars that do have it last are ones that run close to no advance ignition timing and are not able to boost all day long with fearing a melted piston. IMO that's not a daily drivable car. None of your tuner cars are backed by BMW for 50k miles saying "we are confident nothing is going to go wrong and if it does we'll fix it for free" aka a warranty.

Wow, 416rwhp. I made 380rwhp on my old '97 Supra with $0 in mods, just two free mdos, on 93 octane. Stock turbos, exhaust, everything.

Just quit now, you aren't getting anywhere and your trying to argue with someone who's done everything we're talking about when you have absolutely no experience doing so... you can't win, you won't win, and all you are doing is making yourself look foolish.

-m

vraa

You're right. I shouldn't have brought a bike into it.

Biased? Not really. The M3 has a very harsh suspension, not that it's bad, but I doubt I'd want to show off to my clients a jaw breaking ride.

ProjectC55

The suspension in my C43 is a little harsher!They both have eibach's.

is300lex

1st off thats not my car in that vid

The dsm is not a luxury four door sedan. So right now the fastest/quickest luxury sedan (modded) is a Lexus IS300, stock vs stock I believe is the E55. Also for whom mentioned running a E55 vs my IS, I would love too... located here in md.

Not trying to stereotype you guys here, I respect a fast car and the E55 is a very well built fast car but the few I've seen locally md/dc are older gentleman "crusin" under the speed limit. I can you see guys have some class and good taste so not flaming here just stating my opinion.

JAY55

Come to Cali, where the playas play. Got any pics of your iS to share?

skratch77

Your still not getting what I was trying to say.You can make over 700hp on PUMP GAS.

My car is getting prepted right now for a custom turbo.I Never said I know more about Turbos or tuning or anything than you.

Im waiting for rms to finish an inconel manifold for my car.

The gt R dual ball bearing turbos spool way faster than there older gt turbos that you had.

That car made 416whp at like 9psi.He runs it at 17 on the street.

It's not 800 like your supra but it spools fast as hell and is on pump gas.

Why do you get so up tight

You should be happy your driving an amg.

ProjectC55

The DSM comment was'nt directed at you if you read the thread!

Well,The same way you can turbocharge a Lexus is the same way you can turbocharge an E55 my friend.Not supercharge,turbocharge.I'd even throw in the twin turbo V12 and mod it. Take a cue from the twin and single turbocharged Stangs and their V8's.Some of the fastest drag cars including modded Grand Nationals .I use them as an example because of their displacement.With that TT V12 put in the E55,the E55 would be the Quickest luxury sedan modded not the IS according to your: "which one is the fastest Luxo Sedan modded"..

Displacement,pure displacement.The turbocharged V8 or V12 modded MB will wax the turbocharged modded inline six.Now I love the Supra but lets be fair and talk modded against modded.

Marcus Frost

My mistake then. In any case there aren't any IS300s in the 9s and even though I haven't run 9s at the drag strip I know what it could do on the highway. If you weren't running a 140mph+ trap speed you were seeing my tailights.



My friend in my day I have seen E34 M5s with over 1000hp, an E39 that's rapidly approaching that with an insane amount of money and engineering pumped into it, S4s that are running 10s and will be in the 9s soon enough, plenty of everything in between to tell you there's no king of luxury 4 door sedans when you open up the pandora's box of modifications. Stock for stock the E55 is the fastest OEM production sedan in the world (and will be until the S65 hits showrooms... then it's all over for us ). When it comes to mods it's all about who's got the most money, and that really doesn't mean much. If some guy really wanted to he could take any of the luxury sedans on the market today and make it run faster than any IS300...



I'll agree with that... most IS300s I see are either driven by spikey haired young asian boys or by 30 somethings and totally stock... stereotypes are just like *******s.. you know the rest.

Bottom line is all the cars spoken about in this thread deserve their due respect and at the end of the day they are all pretty cool cars for what they are.

-m

is300lex

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcus Frost

My mistake then. In any case there aren't any IS300s in the 9s and even though I haven't run 9s at the drag strip I know what it could do on the highway. If you weren't running a 140mph+ trap speed you were seeing my tailights.

Well tracks open up here soon and should be interesting, making plenty of power just need traction and more practice on the 6spd. as you already know.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcus Frost

My friend in my day I have seen E34 M5s with over 1000hp, an E39 that's rapidly approaching that with an insane amount of money and engineering pumped into it, S4s that are running 10s and will be in the 9s soon enough, plenty of everything in between to tell you there's no king of luxury 4 door sedans when you open up the pandora's box of modifications. Stock for stock the E55 is the fastest OEM production sedan in the world (and will be until the S65 hits showrooms... then it's all over for us ). When it comes to mods it's all about who's got the most money, and that really doesn't mean much. If some guy really wanted to he could take any of the luxury sedans on the market today and make it run faster than any IS300...

I dont know of any US 10 second s4's but ok, I guess that awd is really helping since most are not making much power. I really dont know of any Luxury sedan with a better platform than the IS300's 2jz...since motor has been here for over 10yrs now and a very healthy amount of 7-10 sec street cars.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcus Frost

I'll agree with that... most IS300s I see are either driven by spikey haired young asian boys or by 30 somethings and totally stock... stereotypes are just like *******s.. you know the rest.

Bottom line is all the cars spoken about in this thread deserve their due respect and at the end of the day they are all pretty cool cars for what they are.

-m

Agreed and enough with this thread, now get that benz in the 10's

Marcus Frost

[/b]

skratch you specifically said if I knew anything about turbos... go back and read your posts.

As for 700hp on pump gas, if you read my posts you'll notice I said that it was possible. Hell I know plenty of Supras that have made that to the WHEELS on 93 octane... but like I said, you're looking at a massive turbo, limited timing, and probably a built motor with a nicely done cylinder head to really get it to last - and honestly, even then, I would not be willing to slap a 50k warranty on it... not even a 10k warranty.



The new GTRs maybe spool a couple hundred RPM sooner than the custom hybrid I had built but will cost you nearly 100% more. Not "way faster" - just a bit faster. I still do not believe in ball bearings and still have yet to see them justify their cost and the added hassle of rebuilding them.

I realize you are trying to throw some //M cars into the equation here to try to give them some recognition... they are normally aspirated engines from the factory therefore have extremely limited potential from the factory unless you really start diving into the engine's internals. 2JZs have made 1200hp on a completely factory shortblock and I have personally witnessed a stock 2JZ block take 40psi and 980rwhp on the dyno no problem. No OEM BMW block is going to do that, I'm sorry to say... and it's because they are built for different purposes.

I respect //M cars, I had an '04 M3 and it was a terrific driver's car. Don't feel you need to somehow keep chanting their praise to get me to acknowledge them... I do realize they are great cars... but they simply are not built with the same philosophy as AMG cars.

And, btw, I am extremely happy to be driving an AMG. It's my 2nd one and I just love them.

-m

skratch77

Iv read that the gtr turbo vs it's gt version will spool 1,000 rpms sooner.I could be wrong but I was going from what I read on reviewing which turbo to go with.

Im not sure if it was you but someone mentioned that the is300 was on race gas and was not ok to compair it to the e55.Thats the only reason I brought those m's into the mix because they were running pump gas and near the same hp as the lexus(inline 6 to).

gt35r vs t61.

dyno

You can see the 35r making 400 ftlb at 3.5k

Most of the supra dynos I have seen dont make anything till the hit 4k.Do you have any dynos of your supra.

Im searching to see if I can find one with a gtr turbo to see how its low end power is.