Whos up for the HEADERS GROUP BUY?
02-02-2005, 06:14 PM
#26
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Originally Posted by Peter B
the evo pipe noise is in NO WAY annoying even with resonator deletes. i took the car out today and when i started it up a smile crossed my face. when you floor it there is no resonance in the cabin that would make your ears hurt, even with the deletes. in fact im driving the car like i stole it to get the most out of the upgrade and did a nice smokey burnout with the sunroof open to see how bad the sound would be and its just more baratone. not like the typical 5.0 mustang rumble that you hear on those cars. the evo2 upg is just plain wrong though (in a good way) the way the car bites and scrambles for traction in a very aggressive way. trying to get drag radials but cant find them in 19"s.
I wish one of you guys with headers and stage 2 was down here in socal so I can get a ride. I have taken out my resonators and have put on borla race mufflers. I wouldn't say it's annoyin at all. But for others (girls) they say it's a get annoying after a while. I tell them their crazy. Anyways I wish I had something to compare my car and a stage 2 with...
Last edited by BenzoBoi; 02-02-2005 at 06:17 PM.
02-02-2005, 06:46 PM
#28
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04 E55 & 04 Armada
Nothing back yet, I may have to ring them again.
So far it looks like 4 people are in if the price is right, I don't think that is enough for them to justify a significant discount.
Also any thoughts on what Gideup was saying in his post about needed to install an ECU if you upgrade headers??, I never heard of that before..
I will let you know when I hear back from Mike.
ray
So far it looks like 4 people are in if the price is right, I don't think that is enough for them to justify a significant discount.
Also any thoughts on what Gideup was saying in his post about needed to install an ECU if you upgrade headers??, I never heard of that before..
I will let you know when I hear back from Mike.
ray
02-02-2005, 08:33 PM
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2005 Kleemann Stage 3 E55
Business 101
To all,
Do the math on this and I think you'll find that current market header pricing is already fair and reasonable. The E55 market is not a huge market--think about it for a sec. Just how many E55 owner's do YOU know with headers---personally or on this web site. It's simple suppy and demand. Add in that the tuners don't make these so you're already a few distribution markups into it. Not to mention that you can assume 15% profitability. So they make $500 bucks or so? Anything les than that and it's not worth the effort of selling---especially if you have to provide/field a dozen calls from a customer to make a lousy $500. I encourage everyone to understand the true market size of an E55 owner that wants upgrades. It's not a huge market. Quite far from the massed produced headers for a mustang V-8 or chevy smallblock.
Our (fellow E55 owners) best bet is to act thereby increasing the size of the market--increasing the size of production runs and therefore competition to reduce pricing.
The tuner's challenge is to meet and/or exceed the market's desires. One HUGE customer desire is that crazy warranty issue. For the tuner's to absorb this cost, they assume way more liability than their parts impact and have to recover the cost for this--(charge us more). If that spurs lots of people to modify thier E55's, then the above reduced production cost advantages come into play (very small)--reducing costs to us. However your still dealing with a very very small market size. It's all about the market size folks.
Do the math on this and I think you'll find that current market header pricing is already fair and reasonable. The E55 market is not a huge market--think about it for a sec. Just how many E55 owner's do YOU know with headers---personally or on this web site. It's simple suppy and demand. Add in that the tuners don't make these so you're already a few distribution markups into it. Not to mention that you can assume 15% profitability. So they make $500 bucks or so? Anything les than that and it's not worth the effort of selling---especially if you have to provide/field a dozen calls from a customer to make a lousy $500. I encourage everyone to understand the true market size of an E55 owner that wants upgrades. It's not a huge market. Quite far from the massed produced headers for a mustang V-8 or chevy smallblock.
Our (fellow E55 owners) best bet is to act thereby increasing the size of the market--increasing the size of production runs and therefore competition to reduce pricing.
The tuner's challenge is to meet and/or exceed the market's desires. One HUGE customer desire is that crazy warranty issue. For the tuner's to absorb this cost, they assume way more liability than their parts impact and have to recover the cost for this--(charge us more). If that spurs lots of people to modify thier E55's, then the above reduced production cost advantages come into play (very small)--reducing costs to us. However your still dealing with a very very small market size. It's all about the market size folks.
Last edited by Gid_E_Up; 02-02-2005 at 08:41 PM.
02-02-2005, 09:44 PM
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04 E55 & 04 Armada
Nonetheless, if Evosport is entertaining the idea, then I am up for it.
Here is the response from Mike:
Ray,
You can just add the headers without the ECU Upgrade. You will need to perform the ECU upgrade when you have the pulleys installed. I will provide you with more information tomorrow regarding the possible group buy on the headers.
Thank You,
_______________________________________
Michael Wilson | evosport
Here is the response from Mike:
Ray,
You can just add the headers without the ECU Upgrade. You will need to perform the ECU upgrade when you have the pulleys installed. I will provide you with more information tomorrow regarding the possible group buy on the headers.
Thank You,
_______________________________________
Michael Wilson | evosport
02-02-2005, 10:03 PM
#31
Count me in for:
Kleeman at $2900 and below
Or
Evosport at $2000 and below
My indifference at these two prices is that I am under the assumption that the Kleeman unit adds 10 or more rwhp beyond the EVO due to the primary cat deletes. If we are paying $2000 for 30 rwhp on the Evo's I will spend another $900 to get another 10 rwhp.
Kleeman at $2900 and below
Or
Evosport at $2000 and below
My indifference at these two prices is that I am under the assumption that the Kleeman unit adds 10 or more rwhp beyond the EVO due to the primary cat deletes. If we are paying $2000 for 30 rwhp on the Evo's I will spend another $900 to get another 10 rwhp.
02-03-2005, 03:43 AM
#32
Good luck with the group buy! Those are wicked hard to organize and keep up.
Here's a tip, ask for some information like contact information so when you do get prices, you can tell the people if they still want in or not.
Here's a tip, ask for some information like contact information so when you do get prices, you can tell the people if they still want in or not.
02-03-2005, 04:54 AM
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04 E55
Originally Posted by e55 baller
Count me in for:
Kleeman at $2900 and below
Or
Evosport at $2000 and below
My indifference at these two prices is that I am under the assumption that the Kleeman unit adds 10 or more rwhp beyond the EVO due to the primary cat deletes. If we are paying $2000 for 30 rwhp on the Evo's I will spend another $900 to get another 10 rwhp.
Kleeman at $2900 and below
Or
Evosport at $2000 and below
My indifference at these two prices is that I am under the assumption that the Kleeman unit adds 10 or more rwhp beyond the EVO due to the primary cat deletes. If we are paying $2000 for 30 rwhp on the Evo's I will spend another $900 to get another 10 rwhp.
well said!
02-03-2005, 07:36 AM
#34
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AMG
Got the reply from evosport, here it is.
The headers are $2,990.00. We are looking at the possibility of offering a
Group Buy for the E55 headers, but nothing has been determined as of yet.
For that price i'd rather get kleemann headers then....
The headers are $2,990.00. We are looking at the possibility of offering a
Group Buy for the E55 headers, but nothing has been determined as of yet.
For that price i'd rather get kleemann headers then....
02-03-2005, 09:42 AM
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SL 65 AMG and E63s AMG
The difference in cost of Evo vs Kleemann is due to materials. Kleemann is polished stainless and all others are coated mild steel. Not only does stainless last forever it seems to me that they are quieter. I've seen mild steel rust after a few years, coated or not. It's possible that the newer coatings work better than they used to, I'm not sure. Some jet hot the inside also which would improve longevity. Maybe one of the moderators could elaborate.
Rob
Rob
02-03-2005, 10:24 AM
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Where's your shop? I don't know who you are (maybe I'm missing something here?).
I could care less if anyone goes for this deal. There is nothing in it for me. I was just trying to help some fellow AMG owners. Your choice.
If you need pulleys, ETC., I've got a contact for that too. It's a shame to see people pay such a huge mark-up for parts that are not difficult to make.
02-03-2005, 10:24 AM
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So, I guess it's a "no" or what? I think we would have at least 5 in the GB if the price is right. I'd rather keep my car stock if I'm gonna have to pay $3k for 30hp.
02-03-2005, 10:25 AM
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2003 E55 AMG
Here is a pic of the Kleeman headers for comparison. They are stainless steel and come with downpipes.
It will require the removal of the first set of catalytic converters. The downpipes will replace the 2 cats. There is no modification of O2 sensors required. All the O2 sensors remain in place. You will have to get a muffler shop to weld in the downpipes where the cats were.
It will require the removal of the first set of catalytic converters. The downpipes will replace the 2 cats. There is no modification of O2 sensors required. All the O2 sensors remain in place. You will have to get a muffler shop to weld in the downpipes where the cats were.
02-03-2005, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by BlownV8
The shop is in Pensacola Florida. Not my shop but the guy has been making headers for every possible car for over 40 years. He specializes in Dragster chassis and precision machining. He is very talented and reasonably priced. The mark-up on the Kleeman and EVO headers is unreal! Making headers is not rocket science and is not ultra difficult. The other guys make such a huge profit because you have got the money and they know you will pay. I'm sure most of you didn't get where you were in life by paying double or triple for an item that can be purchased for much less.
I could care less if anyone goes for this deal. There is nothing in it for me. I was just trying to help some fellow AMG owners. Your choice.
If you need pulleys, ETC., I've got a contact for that too. It's a shame to see people pay such a huge mark-up for parts that are not difficult to make.
I could care less if anyone goes for this deal. There is nothing in it for me. I was just trying to help some fellow AMG owners. Your choice.
If you need pulleys, ETC., I've got a contact for that too. It's a shame to see people pay such a huge mark-up for parts that are not difficult to make.
02-03-2005, 10:56 AM
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E55, GLS450, GL63, GLE350
The kleeman units look to be nice but in no way would I use that type of flange for a Mercedes. The old style three bolt flange is less than ideal. You would want to go with the EVO style flange to ensure that there is no leaking. The three bolt flange gaskets tend to burn out quickly and you often have to tighten those bolts down so hard that the flanges will warp.
02-03-2005, 11:46 AM
#42
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Originally Posted by vrus
Here is a pic of the Kleeman headers for comparison. They are stainless steel and come with downpipes.
It will require the removal of the first set of catalytic converters. The downpipes will replace the 2 cats. There is no modification of O2 sensors required. All the O2 sensors remain in place. You will have to get a muffler shop to weld in the downpipes where the cats were.
It will require the removal of the first set of catalytic converters. The downpipes will replace the 2 cats. There is no modification of O2 sensors required. All the O2 sensors remain in place. You will have to get a muffler shop to weld in the downpipes where the cats were.
02-03-2005, 12:01 PM
#44
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Originally Posted by vrus
As told by Kleemann, they will fit V8 W211, W209 and R230. 
02-03-2005, 01:47 PM
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2003 E55 AMG
Originally Posted by JamE55
Ok that's fine but my question wasn't answered. The picture you posted. Is that for a W210 or W211?
The picture posted is for all 3 of the makes I listed above. W209, W211 & R230.
02-04-2005, 01:46 AM
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04 E55 & 04 Armada
Just giving you an update, I did speak to Mike today and he told me that the owners are still discussing whether this is something they want to do or not...
He said he would let me know on Friday....lets see..
He said he would let me know on Friday....lets see..
02-04-2005, 10:57 AM
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W215 CL600
Originally Posted by Ray J
Just giving you an update, I did speak to Mike today and he told me that the owners are still discussing whether this is something they want to do or not...
He said he would let me know on Friday....lets see..
He said he would let me know on Friday....lets see..
02-04-2005, 12:43 PM
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I am in
Hey guys
i jus saw this post and got me excited. If there really is going to be a group buy, then I am positive that I will be apart of this group buy. So count me in guys!!
I feel that headers are way too expensive for our cars, I guess that is just what we have to deal with, with AMG cars. Personally, I have been decideing between Kleemann and Evo headers for a long time. Last summer i actually ordered a set from evo, but then backed out cuz I was planning on trading in my car. Now that i do not have to, I still plan on upgrading car.
I Believe Kleemann's new pricing for headers with downpipes is actually around $3400-3500. That is what i saw from some posts from CORYU, i assumed he is from kleemann, judging that he is from colorado. If we are to compare evo's and kleemann's, kleemann's is $500 more, retail, and gains about 10wrhp more than evo. I heard a cl55 amg with kleemann headers and it sounds rediculous. Sounds just like what a V8 muscle car should sound like, but not exactly like a rumbling mustang. I have never heard anyone with evo's, i just know that they built their headers so we would dont have to do any welding, especially if anyone wants to return their cars back to stock. But, we leave our oem cats in, which means we are still robbed of some ponies, and more aggressive sound, unlike kleemann's, which an amazing deep growl. On the other hand, Evosport's flanges are more up to date and looks perfect. There would be no leaks, and less hassle for dealerships for warranty, especially when they still see the cats, they will not care. But they will care if they realize your cats are removed. True direct bolt on and should not take more than a few hours. So our installation fees will be less than what we will have to pay if we buy kleemann.
SO i guess if kleemann, is willing to lower their price around 500-600, i assume evosport should lower the price around $400-500 or so. I would rather get evosport's headers, 1 becuase they are direct bolt on, fees will be less, 2 fully sealed flanges, instead of a traditional 3 bolts, 3 it's cheaper(retail). With that said, I am willing to pay no more than $2400 for evosport headers. I assume that includes the replacement pipes that PeterB had too right?
i jus saw this post and got me excited. If there really is going to be a group buy, then I am positive that I will be apart of this group buy. So count me in guys!!
I feel that headers are way too expensive for our cars, I guess that is just what we have to deal with, with AMG cars. Personally, I have been decideing between Kleemann and Evo headers for a long time. Last summer i actually ordered a set from evo, but then backed out cuz I was planning on trading in my car. Now that i do not have to, I still plan on upgrading car.
I Believe Kleemann's new pricing for headers with downpipes is actually around $3400-3500. That is what i saw from some posts from CORYU, i assumed he is from kleemann, judging that he is from colorado. If we are to compare evo's and kleemann's, kleemann's is $500 more, retail, and gains about 10wrhp more than evo. I heard a cl55 amg with kleemann headers and it sounds rediculous. Sounds just like what a V8 muscle car should sound like, but not exactly like a rumbling mustang. I have never heard anyone with evo's, i just know that they built their headers so we would dont have to do any welding, especially if anyone wants to return their cars back to stock. But, we leave our oem cats in, which means we are still robbed of some ponies, and more aggressive sound, unlike kleemann's, which an amazing deep growl. On the other hand, Evosport's flanges are more up to date and looks perfect. There would be no leaks, and less hassle for dealerships for warranty, especially when they still see the cats, they will not care. But they will care if they realize your cats are removed. True direct bolt on and should not take more than a few hours. So our installation fees will be less than what we will have to pay if we buy kleemann.
SO i guess if kleemann, is willing to lower their price around 500-600, i assume evosport should lower the price around $400-500 or so. I would rather get evosport's headers, 1 becuase they are direct bolt on, fees will be less, 2 fully sealed flanges, instead of a traditional 3 bolts, 3 it's cheaper(retail). With that said, I am willing to pay no more than $2400 for evosport headers. I assume that includes the replacement pipes that PeterB had too right?
