jonmartin

No it doesn't... But since you're so sure about it make a vid for us and show us how its done.

Vic55

Opinions opinions opinions they are all good; I have had 4 AMG's and 4 M's- the cars all had their hit and misses during the times they were bought (new)

Almost all of the misses can be discovered in the pre buy phase so its up to one to forego some options for others. Hell my 997TT doesnt have folding mirrors- pitty poor old me that I spent so much on that car But god it drives good.

racer m

It's on my list of things to do now that MBZ has no interest in helping me get out of my lease, but the fact that I travel constantly and am getting married in 11 days I haven't found the time yet. Video footage is soon to come, maybe that will help silence some of the doubters.

jonmartin

Cmon Vic but seriously that's a real sports car that gets a pass. A four door luxury car with a big engine doesn't especially in that price bracket. His M5 had all of that stuff folding mirrors and all that including a better interior (full leather / Alcantara headliner ) for the same price 4 years ago!

racer m

Porsche sticks to a lot of traditions on their sports cars (namely the fact that they were last to implement a dual clutch sequential system), but your GTR and your M3 have power folding mirrors. They also have leather dashboards, and other nice luxuries the E63 doesn't and they cost much less. I could have found out all of this in the prebuy phase if I spent hours at the dealer playing with everything on the car, but I didn't. I just assumed a $100k car would have things like that... I guess that is my bad. In the end I just feel like Mercedes in general are over priced, mass produced cars that are sub-par to the competition, and the fact that they depreciate as fast as they do and the dealers are willing to take under invoice deals on a brand new body style AMG car is sad. BMW still sells all the M cars close to MSRP to this day, GTRs sell for MSRP, a Ferrari sells for $50-100k over MSRP. I guess I had to learn a lesson the hard way for breaking my tradition to the brands I love. I went out on a limb when I bought a Nissan and ended up loving it more than any sports car I've ever driven, track or street; I did the same with the E63 and ended up hating it. Oh well. I park my E63 on the street in front of my house many nights hoping that someone will smash into it and total it because that is the only way I am getting rid of it. Hopefully that will happen just around the time the 2012 M5 is available.

Vic55

Agree which brings up my most pertinent point-- these are all items that be scrutinized or used as weight in the pre purchase decision to buy or not buy.

I just picked up an W212 E63 for dirt cheap- not my most favorite choice but for 30k plus off sticker I got a ton of car. Yes the headliner is cheaper and the floor mats are rough but I was able to get passed that. Others may not.

I will never make the same mistake that I made on my CL65 (paid 100k for a new car that in 10 months was worth 10k less) and thus waited for this opportunity. It does make the interior inferiorities pale and I am actually enjoying the car. Its no GTR or 997TT but its not supposed to be. I like it, its a 4 door car with good room in the back- mash and go capabilities for traffic in the OC with reasonably good handling for a 2 ton plus car. The steel springs and short steering have made this car a better handler than my W211 E55 let alone the big pig aka the CL65.

At the end of the day, its all subjective so there will be arguments for and against. In the argument against myself; I won.

BlackC230Coupe

So let me get this straight, you walk into a dealer, want a E63, you know nothing about what it comes with, so you should just assume it comes with folding mirrors a leather dash etc????????? These could have been obvious features to spot if it has them or not within 1 minute. if they are important to you, you need to look for them. If you are spending this kind of money on a car, why assume? why not do research and get what you really want? You expect Mercedes to simply void your lease because you do not like the car that you signed a contact for? I doubt anyone was holding a gun to your head to make you sign that contract. You picked the car that you are paying for.

I don't care you if you are Mario Andretti, an Astronaut an Olympian or the Sultan of Brunei, you are NOT a smart buyer! Plain and simple! If you cannot hear that, then you should have no posted here. The reason there is competition out there is so you can choose what you want, and it seems you picked your car blind.

Krzysiek

Sure, let us wait for racer-m's footage first. And the attendant sales drop.

racer m

You just don't get it pal. Are you going to sit here and tell everyone that you never bought something and realized later that you weren't happy with it? I'm not saying I didn't notice the plastic dash in front of my face when I demoed the car, in fact it was close to a deal breaker for me. I never bothered to check the mirrors folding, or other annoying things I noticed later because I didn't care at the time, I bought the car on a whim in a hurry, and I admitted earlier that I am in impulse buyer. I needed a sedan that hauls *** and I didn't like any of the alternatives so I went with the E63. I live a very busy life and sometimes make bad consumer decisions because of it. In the end, I can live with the non folding mirrors, and the plastic dash, or the poor nav system, but I can't live with the fact that I cannot drive my car the way I want to because of the ESP/ignition retarding issue. I have looked into tuning/diff from Brabus and other companies and no pricing or avail is here at this time. I have 2 different tuner shops looking into it for me as we speak. Normally I would just sell the car for a minimal loss, but its a lease and if I give it back I'm gonna be up-side-down $30k! So I am going to be stuck with it and I'm not happy about it. My original post was not to bash the car for no reason, it was to make other people aware of a potentially very disappointing problem with a new car so they would not be in the same boat as I am in. I wanted to vent a little and help others out if I could at the same time. I didn't expect to be crucified for it, and if you go back and read through this entire thread there are others that seem to be concerned and agree with me as well.

I think you need to look past your desire to argue and realize the situation that I have. The mirrors/dash/nav are just supplemental complaints to the real issue, and that is the car not performing like it is advertised to. Maybe my car is a lemon, maybe my situation is unique, but it is real. If you take the time to read everything I have posted, and you are above average intelligence with some kind of driving skill you should understand my situation. However, it seems to me that you are just one of many people who spend way too much time on this forum looking for an excuse to argue and insult other people. I on the other hand am not one of those people, and have no desire to discuss this issue any further. When time allows, assuming I still have this car, I will make some great on track videos in 1080i for your viewing pleasure. Until then enjoy your keyboard wars.

BlackC230Coupe

If i was you then, I would just try selling it. Why stay in something you are not happy with? Even if it is a lease, I do not think you will be 30k upsidedown. 20k maybe, but who cares, if it is something that is bothering you, get out. I would not waste money on tuners finding a solution, just save your money, get out of it, and next time take your time and do homework before you buy. Maybe we are all taking this the wrong way, but keep in mind, it is not a typical situation.

racer m

If I wanted to throw away $20-30k I would put it in my fire pit and roast marshmellows. Instead, I will continue to drive my car and continue to call MBZ and complain until they get so sick of it they buy back my car. If not I guess I will just have to live with my bad decision for the next 31 months and not make another one like it again.

Vic55

If money is not a big issue but having something tangible and valuable is; trade in the car and get buried in something you enjoy versus being buried in something you despise.

Ive been there and done that... and it worked for me in the past. Id rather pay more and be happy then be stuck with something that gives me remorse.

ESIX3POWER

Put the car on Swap-a-lease and pay some one $8000-10000 to take over your payments.. You never know..

220S

I agree that MB did some cost cutting on the W212 that they now realize they shouldn't have done. They removed a lot of pleasantries like soft Nappa and alcantara headliner. But they fixed that now and the 2011 will once again include those things.

The 2010 was the first MY for the W212. In the next couple of years they'll make even more adjustments (like new motors.)

But the OP should really just bail on this car. Why live with someone you hate. Hey, divorces can get expensive but it's worth living in peace and not hating every day. No point in being frustrated and pissed all the time. It just makes you vindictive. It's not healthy.

And speaking of which, the OP can bark at MBUSA all day long. It's not worth it, they have no obligation and they have not misrepresented their product. Since the OP said he didn't buy this for the track yet wants to "boil the tires off" and drift on public streets, he has no justification whatsoever. Sure, there is some MBUSA sanctioned marketing that shows smoking tires and drifting on a controlled track, but they never said anything about drifting or driving to the max on public freeway on ramps.

And that sort of confuses me. If it's not for the track, but simply to smoke the tires on public streets all the time then why was the car purchased in the first place? Plus he has other fun cars anyway. The E Class is more or less just a family sedan that goes fast. I thought we all knew that. Plus most of us have other cars that fill certain voids the E Class leaves.

Anyway, I hope the OP can get out of the car and go on with life. I say just dump it or find someone to take over the lease. The car game is never a cost effective game anyway, it's an obsession that costs money.

And maybe next time be more careful as to how advertising and marketing affects your choice making. Be wiser and less compulsive.

racer m

I have to respectfully disagree with you there. Whether the "boiling the tires off" or drifting happens on a public street or at La Sarthe has nothing to do with it. Its the fact that there are multiple videos showing the car capable of being driven like that, and if the consumer who is considering a purchase feels the need to do a massive burnout, or power-slide a freeway on ramp when there is no traffic around, or wants to take their car to Laguna Seca to slide through the corkscrew at a 45 degree oversteer then they have the right to do so since they forked over $100k for a car that is supposed to. The fact that the car will not allow one capable of driving the car to that level, while being advertised as being capable, to do so is a misrepresentation of the product which somewhat falls under a claim of false advertisement. While I have no intention of bringing a lawsuit against MBZ I would appreciate if they could take my car back. My opinion is that they have companies like Edmunds.com put the car in "dyno mode" during the test, simply for dramatic effect, to make the car more appealing to the average consumer who never will really be able to extract the maximum capabilities out of the car. In other words, I believe that they demonstrate the car smoking tires and sliding around corners to attract buyers, but when the car is delivered to the consumer it comes with programming that prevents this type of performance from the car. That, in my opinion, is bull**** and there isn't another auto manufacturer out there that I am aware of that does the same... at least not ones that come with a 6 digit price tag.

These vids are a repost, but in case you didn't watch them you should:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GINMe7K_aL0

http://videos.sapo.pt/7JI6khaMu1GBVzcAr4ht

220S

I meant it in the context of telling them what your dissatisfaction is about. In other words if you were tracking the car (eg in sanctioned events like the AMG Driving Academy) and it didn't behave the way it was advertised, then yes, I think you could readily complain. But if you tell them you can't play the car the way you want on public streets without the safety nannies appearing, then they won't have a reason to listen (whether that's right or wrong on their part is another issue.)

Top Gear and Edmunds, et al, are not "sanctioned" MBUSA marketing venues. They may (but not always) loan cars to those reviewers. Sometimes there are stipulations (promises not to do certain things to the car, where to drive, etc..) but those venues do their own dramatizing.

The bottom line is that one needs to purchase a car based not on marketing alone (which all "lies" to a certain extent.) I think in your case you weren't sure what you were getting into. And in the end it wasn't the right product for your specific needs. It's happened to all of us. And it can happen again. It's life.

In the meantime, I think we're all empathetic to a certain degree. I think the specific issue here is when somebody comes on a forum and is clearly angry and gets a bit too aggressive (don't buy this car! etc.), that it only operates to turn people off. We're all okay with criticizing, after all they are just cars and no one here is personally responsible for their design or engineering. But let's all talk about it in a more rational way and be constructive about it all.

Again, good luck with it, and congrats on the upcoming wedding.

Krzysiek

The discussion here has clearly degenerated to the point that unsupported statements become accepted assumptions: e.g. The car cannot be drifted.

The car can definitely be drifted and is surprisingly neutral and catchable. On the other hand, I would not do it (too much) on a public street, unless your name is Lewis Hamilton. The cost of error (to you and others is just too high).

I drifted the car with no problem in parking lot. Not much on the track since my goal is not to be as slow as possible, but to each it's own.

Quite frankly, racer-m, I begin to suspect that your racing/tracking experience is minimal. You want to slide the car through corkscrew at Laguna Seca? A slow (second gear) corner with a ton of positive camber? Why not turn 9, much more natural for this kind of thing and much more...exciting.

Post some videos of your track experience, before it becomes too obvious you are totally full of it.

Finally, considering how unhappy you are with your car, you should be quite happy to hear that others can drift their cars and you can't. This implies that there is something wrong with your car, which gives you a much stronger case for buy-back. Strangely enough, you don't seem too interested in that line of argument, which suggests to me that all this drifting BS is just an excuse for something else.

Sorry, I forget myself, whip your GoPro out and get those sales down already.

C280 Sport

Wow I cant believe I actually sat and saw all of this. But I did .He/she talks about being a race car driver and owning a Veyron. Im not doubting you. But then goes on and talks about drifting on a highway on ramp? Come one. Why would you be dumb enough to do such a thing like that? I am a young guy and I race my cars on the track and am no where near good enough to drive in real races but I am not dumb enough to drift on a highway ramp. And why does this person keep saying it wont drift????Yes it can. Hell people drift little FWD Civics for Gods sake. Im sure a AMG RWD can do it no issues. Check Youtube lol. I may go 10mph over the speed limit but not drifting and racing like this person does. I dont know if this person has ever seen any type of AMG or been in one. I could be wrong..This person could be one of them Lotto winners who just got a AMG and was pissed that another car maybe beat him in a race so he goes and blows of steam to people on here...But I could be wrong again. Either way I find it a little hard to believe this story. It seems too hard to take it for the truth. No offense to the OP and again im not saying your thread is BS. Im just saying it seems little out there and is hard to get your head around becuase I have NEVER herd of such an issue before. I think you may just have got a new car with some small stupid issues. Take it to the dealer and have them check it out since its under warranty anyways. Good luck.

Verb04

Tool

E-Ridium 63

Why would MB have any interest in helping you get out of your lease? you made the decision to buy it, now live with it. This world isn't about freebies and second chances when you didn't take the time out to do your homework to begin with. Sorry, if this comes off rough but I surely am not sympathetic about a decision you made that was wrong for you without thinking it through thoroughly.

Racing Dad

I can't believe this old thread got dug up and now it's got a second wind.

Racer, I have to commend you on your commitment and involvement with this thread. You've almost written a book. :-)

If you want to get out of your lease try a website called www.swapalease.com

Funny enough, had a friend just get a M5 off the site! :-) Got a great deal too, and new tires, and $2200 credit towards mileage.

PS. Congrats on the wedding! :-)

BlackC230Coupe

I can assure you this will never be on the top seller list!

VCA_AMG

I'm sure MBZ would appreciate it if you did your homework before making an admittedly "rush" and "impulse" buy. Just sayin'...

THIS.

220S

I just want to point out to everybody that Racer M is everything he says he is and I will vouch for that. As it turns out a colleague of mine (who's also invested in motorsports) knows who he is. And yes, he is a professional driver and races for a couple of teams, one which most people here would probably recognize. He's raced on most all the tracks in the country and outside the US. Daytona Prototype Grand-Am Rolex Sports Car Series, GT, Continental GS. He's had race wins and several podiums.

Anyway, I'm not going to go any further with that, but let's put that part of it aside.

In addition, he admits he came on too harsh but he was angry and frustrated that the car failed to perform like he thought it should. He didn't state his issues in a very conducive manner for real discussion but he now realizes that. Again, he was just angry at MBUSA and the way they didn't seem to want to acknowledge his concerns. He also only mentioned his pro background because he didn't want anybody thinking he was an inexperienced newb just bs'ing.

So let's put that part aside, too.

After the dust settles, hopefully he'll try to videotape how the car's been acting and try to document everything. Then maybe we can have a good dialogue here. He's thinking it's possible he has a weird sample or bad electronics. Or it could be that the W212 has some excessive nannies that are coming on too strong, too often. That's something that would be worthwhile investigating. He does like the motor, btw.

Most members here are E55 owners and more into the dragstrip and their ETA's, etc.. But now that MB has built the W212 and is emphasizing the chassis and handling, they're changing the game somewhat. We're probably going to see more road track style driving with these cars.

Another member here, Krzysiek, tracks his Scuderia a lot and is a member of the NJ Motorsports Park. He's also driven most of the better known US tracks. He plans to track his W212 E63 more often. This fall he'll see how his car performs in comparison. It's possible that Racer M has an anomaly and simply a bad sample. Another member here talked about pre-crash coming on the car during the AMG Driving Academy event. It would be great to get some comparisons from other drivers/owners.

In the meantime, Racer M is getting married in a week and so give him congrats for that.

For now, maybe let's just sit tight and see what transpires.

Krzysiek

I have already tracked e63at NJMP Thunderbolt. If interested I will post video. Overall, it's a great track car, but the weight eats the (front) tires quickly. It's amazingly stable in high speed stuff and very neutral in tighter corners. I said it before, but my track experience only confirms it: i is unbelievable how resistant to understeer it is. (My scuderia understeers more even after re-alignement (zero toe-in in front and more negative camber) and with wider front tires.)

However, it still is a heavy car and you will feel the bulk through turns. It will step out on demand, but very progressively: very easy to catch. You have to turn esp completely off: the sport mode is useless on the track, comes on all the time.

One problem I had with the car was that during some spirited driving on the track, the car would jump from manual to S+ on its own. It surprised me a couple times when it started shifting on its own. I think it tries to protect the tranny. It was very weird.

Overall, it is a great car to throw around on the track. With one caveat: I don't really like the throttle response. I am used to low-displacement, high-spinning Italian engines ( I also track Maserati GTS), and i really love the responsiveness. The mercedes cannot provide it. No big surprise either: hard to do it with such a large-displacement engine. That's my only complaint.

Overall: great chassis, great power, really fun car.

One final thought on racer_m: I understand his frustration, since not everything is perfect with the car, but the attitude was definitely wrong. I am still perplexed why a professional race-car driver would want to drift through corckscrew: a corner that is particularly unsuitable for this kind of thing.