VCA_AMG

LOL...and how much time does a E63 or M5 spend at 130+ during its lifetime? This is one of the most pointless arguments an M5 guy/E63 guy can make. If you're driving at 130mph or above regularly, you're either a racecar driver on a track in a real track car, or you're lying.

I could care less if the engine shuts down at 130mph. I spend 99.99999999% of my time driving under 100mph as it is; who cares what it can do above 130.

eurowerx

(
To be honest almost every race where i am from starts around 60 and goes well over 130.. more like 160... some to (200mph)(ask italianstallion) lol..... so i can speak for myself in saying i spent a lot of time above 130.... but yes daily driving i would love to have FI . My E55 was great for that...

And we all know modded F.I is not in comparison with a n.a car... u can do cheap work and have huge gains.... (p.s) cant wait for the TT motor

A rolling 60-to 155 race will be victory for the ///M , also i am not being judgmental by informing you that Michelin sponsored that episode and thats what the cts-v had as they stated it... but who really cares is right its a dumb argument.... my buddy has own a 700 hp CTS-v a 700+ hp Z06 and a ''///M5 along with the GTR now and to be honest i would take the Z06 over that caddy and blow the doors off of all these cars...lol

absent

Where in God's name do you live???
Montana?You have access to some runway?
You need at least a couple miles of straight,traffic free,perfectly surfaced road to get to these speeds (over 150mph).

Vic55

I hit 130 and above at least 2x's every single day. I have a road in mexico on the way to work that allows me this.

Krzysiek

I am not sure now what car we are talking about. C63 or e63? If you are talking about e63, there is no e63 in the Lightning Lap.

As to the PCOTY not trying to extract 100%: this is simply laughable assertion. They had a professional race car driver pushing the cars to the limit. By the way, he was very complimentary towards CTS-V.

All the same, CTS-V lost big.

Krzysiek

Yes, they are much more fond of the Germans.

TMC M5

See above...E-Ridium came up with the speculation that the C63 would beat a CTS-V around a road course.

The E63 may be faster than a CTS-V on a shorter, tighter course. I just find it HIGHLY suspect that the E63 is 2.6s faster on CAR's PCOTY Rockingham course.

I think Motor Trend's road course results below are more representative where the E63 edged the CTS-V by .1s:

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...son/specs.html

Like I said, on a longer course the CTS-V will get an advantage.

Tom

Krzysiek

That's right American journalists versus a British race car driver (including LeMans and a bunch of other stuff). Who can be possibly more skilled in extracting performance out of a car?

What result can be possibly more representative? How about AMS at Hockenheim?

Not too mention that the MotorTrend car was w/o the performance package. In other words no LSD on e63.

Yes, CTS-V would have an advantage on a course with few turns. Length does not enter into it. Remember, V needs big straights to gain on e63, it will definitely lose in turns.

Having said all those things. CTS-V is a pretty decent car on the track. I drove it at Monticello. Good tight chassis, good power. The transmission sucks, though. Neither the manual nor the automatic are very good. It also feels much heavier than e63.

TMC M5

Look at the first post you quoted of mine.. I mentioned the advantage would be due to the long straights, I didn't think I had to repeat myself.

I am not doubting that the E63 is faster around a shorter track (fewer/short straights). However, on a longer course such as VIR's Grand West Course and the N'ring (both with longer straights), the CTS-V would have an advantage. Does the E63 post a sub-8 second N'ring time? Seriously, I can't find one for it. I imagine that it would fall somewhere in between the CLK63 BS's 8:02 and the C63's 8:13 times.

I believe that AMS tested a manual CTS-V at Hockenheim in 1:14.5s and the W212 E62 at 1:14.0s. Not sure of the E63's options.

My problem with the PCOTY track times was the difference of 2.6+s which is HUGE. Sorry, that is just not reality...I don't care how many/what races the driver participated in/won. Maybe he needed more seat time. I just re-watched the video (it has been awhile since I have seen it) and I suggest you do the same (you seem to have some experience on road courses). He got a little sideways heading into the in-field portion of the track on the timed run. He also gave himself WAY too much braking room at the end of the straights. Like I said maybe he needed some more seat time to extract the best time out of the car. As far as what is "representative", I don't think we will see a LeMans driver throwing either a CTS-V or E63 around Monticello, Watkins Glen, Limerock or Summit Point anytime soon...

Tom

eurowerx

I live in NY and u have to make what u can from your straight aways and we have a few.... btw yes i reach these speeds daily.... dont need anymore than 1/2 mile to reach 150+

Krzysiek

e63's ring time is 8:10, CTS-V does not post sub-8 min time. At least, not in any independent tests. Yes, the more big straights a track has the less disadvantaged V will be. The top end of the car is slightly higher.

That just underscores the fact that e63 handles better.

Well, when I look at race track tests and what they mean, I prefer to see the limits of the car (even if I never would approach them), than the limitations of the journalist driving the car. A professional race car driver will get within a couple tenths of any car's limits within a couple of laps on any track, let alone on a track he's doing hundreds of laps on.

Here's the driver background: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darren_Turner

As to your complaints about his driving, sorry, but I can't take it too seriously. Not unless you are willing to call up Aston Martin and offer them your services instead. Yes, the car gets slightly sideways here and there, no big surprise when you drive big-torque engine close to the limit. You can actually see him do the same thing in his AMG lap. As to braking point, see my comment above.

absent

Well,150 is not that hard to get to ,especially at 4 am on my way to the warehouse but you mentioned 200mph which is a completely another game....

eurowerx

200 yes but not with the AMG ... only the other toys!!! 600-900 whp toys ....

TMC M5

Now the CTS-V's lap time doesn't count???

You give WAY too much credit to professional drivers. Look at the original topic...we are talking about a TV show with "professional drivers" (albeit Paul Tracy's resume is a little more impressive compared to Tanner Faust's). These guys are not the best to get the acceleration times out of these cars. Their rolling 60-130mph times are terrible. Yes, acceleration times are not a huge assessment tool of a driver's skill...but there are members here have recorded better 60-130 times in an E63...by 2+ seconds (I know ambient conditions affect performance...but not 2 seconds worth). It just goes to show that professional drivers are human, and if they do not have enough seat time...and aren't instructed on how to set up the car's different traction control settings and sport transmission shifting modes, they may not extract the best times.

Tom

Krzysiek

You take mfr's-set times seriously? But independent test by professional race-car drivers cannot be trusted, since you can tell how to drive those cars better?

Now, I know why you think CTS-V is faster around a race track.

I cannot comment on American Top gear, but the skill in question has very, very little to do with driving cars on the (race) track. Plus, if the two you mention are anything like Top Gear trio, their driving has nothing to do with extracting performance out of cars.

In general professionals will not vary by more than .5 sec in the same car in the same conditions (at worst).

Krzysiek

Another thing about race-car drivers: i don't think you have dealt much with actual professional race-car drivers or seen any in action up close and personal. The way it typically goes is that a professional comes to a new track to try a new sports car he's never driven before. He gets in, drives three laps, turns off all the nannies (if possible) and sets a lap time within a couple tenths of the track records for the track.

Funnily enough, just this past Thursday precisely this happened. Scott Pruett drove the new Lexus LFA at Monticello. Never been to the track, never driven the lexus before, yet he was right there in terms of laps times.

I have seen this over and over again.

By the way, the Lexus is a great car, never thought I was going to say that about Lexus. Come to think about a year ago I never imagined I would be sining high praises of an MB, either. What's the world coming to?

Jons95c36amg

POS Ctsv owned

TMC M5

I got it now...anything that makes your car look better is 100% accurate...anything which makes a rival's car look better...is 100% inaccurate and should be disregarded....

Ok maybe you should take off your E63 fanboy glasses ...and read what I wrote...(or maybe your reading comprehension skills need some work). I SAID I DON'T DOUBT THAT AN E63 IS FASTER AROUND A SHORTER ROAD COURSE WITH SHORTER/LESS STRAIGHTAWAYS. I NEVER SAID THAT THE CTS-V IS FASTER AROUND EVERY TRACK, INCLUDING ROCKINGHAM. I FIND THE ROCKINGHAM LAP TIME TO BE HIGHLY SUSPECT GIVEN THE NEARLY 3 SECOND TIME DIFFERENCE. LOOKING AT THE VIDEO, IT LOOKS LIKE THE DRIVER COULD HAVE BEEN MORE AGGRESSIVE IN CERTAIN AREAS OF THE TRACK.

I also find it amusing that you claim total ignorance about the Speed TV show called Battle of the Supercars or as you call it "American Top Gear".

Funny how you quickly posted Darren Turner's curriculum vitae, yet you have no knowledge of Paul Tracy and Tanner Faust...and had no curiosity to verify the expertise. I guess it didn't help support your point... so it was conveniently discarded.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Tracy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanner_Foust

Paul Tracy is a well accomplished professional driver....Tanner...not so much.

Tom

DAGREEKNYC

u sure u two arent married ??? WTF lol .

Krzysiek

No, I am not married to e63. I have lots of cars and, I am always trying to find a better car. I change them often.

On the other hand, you seem to take seriously GM advertising as proof of performance. And you accuse me of fan-boyism? Projecting much?

As to your suspicions about Rockingham time, they seem to me to rest on your limited understanding of road-course performance.

Have you ever driven on a race-track? Have you ever had a professional put a comparison lap in your car so you can use his trace to understand why you suck?

Yes, I am ignorant about the battle of supercars.And?

As to the backgrounds of the race-car drivers, do you understand that roll-on performance for drag races has pretty much nothing to do with driving on a road-course? So, consequently, the background of the two guys are simply irrelevant.

Again, so you don't get too confused: drag racing has nothing to do with track-driving.

Krzysiek

We are just dating. Nothing serious. Yet.

SMP

Maybe fond of German cars ......... but not when it comes to German people How do I know? Take a wild guess

Krzysiek

Do tell.

SMP

Maybe you want to accompany me next time I visit my family in Germany? 130 mph is considered cruising speed for us. We drive that in the slow lane and in the rain .I prefer to go out at night, when there is less traffic and go for some extended top speed runs. If you ever been there, those roads are smooth as glass and perfect for that type of driving.

TMC M5

Yes, I have done the M5 Driving Experience in Spartanburg SC with professional drivers and have been on Summit Point and Limerock. So much for your assumptions...

Yes, I am a GM fanboy because I believe the documented video posted on the CTS-V's sub-8 minute N'ring run....

I guess you don't believe the various Ferrari Fiorano track times because those are just Ferrari propaganda...

Apparently we don't agree on much....such is life... and just for the record...if we were a married couple you would be the woman (your logic is eerily woman-like).

Tom