Sourced this E63TT Wagon... Thoughts
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From: THE Orange County, California
2024 C8 Z06- 2025 BMW CS- 2022 Porsche 992 GTS
Gonna drive the car tomorrow to confirm looks and driveability. My deal is so good I may just get it no matter what......
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From: Irvine, CA
Fast cars in general....
Hey Vic, can you PM me what discount you got on that wagon?
Apparently one of my friend drove my car last night and he was completely sold.
He was planning on getting a X5M but obviously I steered him in the right direction.
Apparently one of my friend drove my car last night and he was completely sold.
He was planning on getting a X5M but obviously I steered him in the right direction.
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From: THE Orange County, California
2024 C8 Z06- 2025 BMW CS- 2022 Porsche 992 GTS
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E63 AMG, E60 M5
I've drive 2 cts-v's
They don't have the refinement, interior especially that a mercedes does, but it's still sells for a fractions of what the amg cars do though, but performance wise it's pretty impressive. Not the handling or power i'd except from a caddy. Overall pretty impressive machine.
They don't have the refinement, interior especially that a mercedes does, but it's still sells for a fractions of what the amg cars do though, but performance wise it's pretty impressive. Not the handling or power i'd except from a caddy. Overall pretty impressive machine.
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From: THE Orange County, California
2024 C8 Z06- 2025 BMW CS- 2022 Porsche 992 GTS
I drove it today, maybe for 10 minutes. I got it up to triple digits- the wagon really moves. Is it faster than the CLS? No probably the same but it was a short run on the freeway and then a few dig runs and some rolling mash and go's from 30 to 90mph. The dig runs were solid with the weight bias even more prevalent than the sedan and CLS to the rear. The rolling mashes were just as impressive. As everyone said, this vessel drives like a car. It actually is only 4 lbs heavier than the CLS per MBZ and a few inches shorter.
Im impressed but expected no less. I really didnt get a chance to push it into higher speed turns or sharp corners. What I really liked was the looks of the car standing still; its an impressive beast with subtle looks at certain angles and aggressive views from others.
Im pretty much sold on the car.
Im impressed but expected no less. I really didnt get a chance to push it into higher speed turns or sharp corners. What I really liked was the looks of the car standing still; its an impressive beast with subtle looks at certain angles and aggressive views from others.
Im pretty much sold on the car.
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 6,279
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From: OC
i drive them all, fast and hard
figures, whens it arriving....
another car for you in the future, M6 4 door coupe, whatever they will call it, actually looks good, that 6 series cls wanna be
my break in period is killing me, i havent taken it out of C mode, yet,
another car for you in the future, M6 4 door coupe, whatever they will call it, actually looks good, that 6 series cls wanna be
my break in period is killing me, i havent taken it out of C mode, yet,
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From: Irvine, CA
Fast cars in general....
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Joined: Apr 2009
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From: Toronto
2016 C63 S
Awesome!
The car is deceptively impressive. Plus with the mods that you'll probably do, it will be one of the baddest wagons on the road.
I can just picture a white slammed wagon on 20s
The car is deceptively impressive. Plus with the mods that you'll probably do, it will be one of the baddest wagons on the road.
I can just picture a white slammed wagon on 20s
I drove it today, maybe for 10 minutes. I got it up to triple digits- the wagon really moves. Is it faster than the CLS? No probably the same but it was a short run on the freeway and then a few dig runs and some rolling mash and go's from 30 to 90mph. The dig runs were solid with the weight bias even more prevalent than the sedan and CLS to the rear. The rolling mashes were just as impressive. As everyone said, this vessel drives like a car. It actually is only 4 lbs heavier than the CLS per MBZ and a few inches shorter.
Im impressed but expected no less. I really didnt get a chance to push it into higher speed turns or sharp corners. What I really liked was the looks of the car standing still; its an impressive beast with subtle looks at certain angles and aggressive views from others.
Im pretty much sold on the car.
Im impressed but expected no less. I really didnt get a chance to push it into higher speed turns or sharp corners. What I really liked was the looks of the car standing still; its an impressive beast with subtle looks at certain angles and aggressive views from others.
Im pretty much sold on the car.
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Joined: Nov 2001
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From: THE Orange County, California
2024 C8 Z06- 2025 BMW CS- 2022 Porsche 992 GTS
As grip said and what I have posted in many threads.... hard break in is the only way to go.
Yep- bye bye NA E63. No trade- will sell.
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Administrator
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 12,263
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From: THE Orange County, California
2024 C8 Z06- 2025 BMW CS- 2022 Porsche 992 GTS
2001 E55
2002 M5
2002 S4
2003 M3
2004 E55
2003 997TT
2005 CL65
2007 M6
2007 997TT
2009 ISF
2009 GTR
2009 M3
2010 E63
2011 997TT
2012 CLS63
The results have always been favorable.
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07 M6 | 09 RX-8 | 07 LGT Wagon | 17 Bolt
Patience people.
You have plenty of time to be hard on the car, after the soft break in.
Just because the engine still runs ,despite a hard break in, does not mean it is ideal.
To really know, which method was better, one would need to tear down freshly broken in engines to compare.
You have plenty of time to be hard on the car, after the soft break in.
Just because the engine still runs ,despite a hard break in, does not mean it is ideal.
To really know, which method was better, one would need to tear down freshly broken in engines to compare.
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From: Maryland
a Rivera...via a Custom 24, Strat and Les Paul
SOOOOOOO cant wait to see what you do with this Vic. . .I think the 212 is PERFECTELY suited for the estate version and after you're done with it. . .
Thread Starter
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From: THE Orange County, California
2024 C8 Z06- 2025 BMW CS- 2022 Porsche 992 GTS
I cant believe Im gonna have a wagon--- its what all the friends are saying to me LOL
But in reality the car is no bigger than the sedan.
As for the "break in" procedure- Ill stand by my empirical track record with the cars listed above.
Here is a "tiny" excerpt about break in:
The first few hundred miles of a new engine's life have a major impact on how strongly that engine will perform, how much oil it will consume and how long it will last. The main purpose of break-in is to seat the compression rings to the cylinder walls. We are talking about the physical mating of the engine's piston rings to it's corresponding cylinder wall. That is, we want to physically wear the new piston rings into the cylinder wall until a compatible seal between the two is achieved.
Proper engine break in will produce an engine that achieves maximum power output with the least amount of oil consumption due to the fact that the piston rings have seated properly to the cylinder wall. When the piston rings are broken in or seated, they do not allow combustion gases to escape the combustion chamber past the piston rings into the crankcase section of the engine. This lack of "blow-by" keeps your engine running cleaner and cooler by preventing hot combustion gases and by-products from entering the crankcase section of the engine. Excessive "blow-by" will cause the crankcase section of the engine to become pressurized and contaminated with combustion gases, which in turn will force normal oil vapors out of the engine's breather, causing the engine to consume excessive amounts of oil.
In addition to sealing combustion gases in the combustion chamber, piston rings must also manage the amount of oil present on the cylinder walls for lubrication. If the rings do not seat properly, they cannot perform this function and will allow excessive amounts of oil to accumulate on the cylinder wall surfaces. This oil is burned each and every time the cylinder fires. The burning of this oil, coupled with "blow-by" induced engine breathing, are reasons that an engine that hasn't been broken in will consume more than its share of oil.
When a cylinder is new or overhauled the surface of it's walls are honed with abrasive stones to produce a rough surface that will help wear the piston rings in. This roughing up of the surface is known as "cross-hatching". A cylinder wall that has been properly "cross hatched" has a series of minute peaks and valleys cut into its surface. The face or portion of the piston ring that interfaces with the cross hatched cylinder wall is tapered to allow only a small portion of the ring to contact the honed cylinder wall. When the engine is operated, the tapered portion of the face of the piston ring rubs against the coarse surface of the cylinder wall causing wear on both objects.
Each tiny groove acts as the oil reservoir holding oil up to the top level of the groove where it then spreads over the peak surface. The piston ring must travel up and down over this grooved surface, and must "hydroplane" on the oil film retained by the grooves. Otherwise, the ring would make metal-to-metal contact with the cylinder wall and the cylinder would quickly wear out.
However the ring will only ride on this film of oil if there is sufficient surface area to support the ring on the oil. When the cylinders are freshly honed the peaks are sharp with little surface area. Our goal when seating the rings on new steel cylinders is to flatten out these peaks to give more surface area to support the rings, while leaving the bottom of the groove intact to hold enough oil to keep the surface of the cylinder wet with oil. See illustration. At the point where the top of the peaks produced by the honing operation become smooth and the tapered portion of the piston ring wears flat break in has occurred.
When the engine is operating, a force known as Break Mean Effective Pressure or B.M.E.P is generated within the combustion chamber. B.M.E.P. is the resultant force produced from the controlled burning of the fuel air mixture that the engine runs on. The higher the power setting the engine is running at, the higher the B.M.E.P. is and conversely as the power setting is lowered the B.M.E.P. becomes less.
B.M.E.P is an important part of the break in process. When the engine is running, B.M.E.P. is present in the cylinder behind the piston rings and it's force pushes the piston ring outward against the coarse honed cylinder wall. Piston rings are designed to take advantage of the pressure and us it to push the rings out against the cylinder wall. Therefore, as pressure builds during the compression stroke, the rings are pushed harder against the cylinder wall which aids in seating the rings.
The higher the B.M.E.P, the harder the piston ring is pushed against the wall. The surface temperature at the piston ring face and cylinder wall interface will be greater with high B.M.E.P. than with low B.M.E.P. This is because we are pushing the ring harder against the rough cylinder wall surface causing high amounts of friction and thus heat. The primary deterrent of break in is this heat. Allowing to much heat to build up at the ring to cylinder wall interface will cause the lubricating oil that is present to break down and glaze the cylinder wall surface. This glaze will prevent any further seating of the piston rings. If glazing is allowed to happen break in will never occur. Also, if too little pressure (throttle) is used during the break-in period glazing will also occur.
Most people seem to operate on the philosophy that they can best get their money's worth from any mechanical device by treating it with great care. This is probably true, but in many cases it is necessary to interpret what great care really means. This is particularly applicable when considering the break-in of a modern, reciprocating engine.
For those who still think that running the engine hard during break-in falls into the category of cruel and unusual punishment, there is one more argument for using high power loading for short periods (to avoid excessive heat) during the break-in. The use of low power settings does not expand the piston rings enough, and a film of oil is left on the cylinder walls. The high temperatures in the combustion chamber will oxidize this oil film so that it creates glazing of the cylinder walls. When this happens, the ring break-in process stops, and excessive oil consumption frequently occurs. The bad news is that extensive glazing can only be corrected by removing the cylinders and rehoning the walls. This is expensive, and it is an expense that can be avoided by proper break in procedures.
We must achieve a happy medium where we are pushing on the ring hard enough to wear it in but not hard enough to generate enough heat to cause glazing. Once again, if glazing should occur, the only remedy is to remove the effected cylinder, re-hone it and replace the piston rings and start the whole process over again.
But in reality the car is no bigger than the sedan.
As for the "break in" procedure- Ill stand by my empirical track record with the cars listed above.
Here is a "tiny" excerpt about break in:
The first few hundred miles of a new engine's life have a major impact on how strongly that engine will perform, how much oil it will consume and how long it will last. The main purpose of break-in is to seat the compression rings to the cylinder walls. We are talking about the physical mating of the engine's piston rings to it's corresponding cylinder wall. That is, we want to physically wear the new piston rings into the cylinder wall until a compatible seal between the two is achieved.
Proper engine break in will produce an engine that achieves maximum power output with the least amount of oil consumption due to the fact that the piston rings have seated properly to the cylinder wall. When the piston rings are broken in or seated, they do not allow combustion gases to escape the combustion chamber past the piston rings into the crankcase section of the engine. This lack of "blow-by" keeps your engine running cleaner and cooler by preventing hot combustion gases and by-products from entering the crankcase section of the engine. Excessive "blow-by" will cause the crankcase section of the engine to become pressurized and contaminated with combustion gases, which in turn will force normal oil vapors out of the engine's breather, causing the engine to consume excessive amounts of oil.
In addition to sealing combustion gases in the combustion chamber, piston rings must also manage the amount of oil present on the cylinder walls for lubrication. If the rings do not seat properly, they cannot perform this function and will allow excessive amounts of oil to accumulate on the cylinder wall surfaces. This oil is burned each and every time the cylinder fires. The burning of this oil, coupled with "blow-by" induced engine breathing, are reasons that an engine that hasn't been broken in will consume more than its share of oil.
When a cylinder is new or overhauled the surface of it's walls are honed with abrasive stones to produce a rough surface that will help wear the piston rings in. This roughing up of the surface is known as "cross-hatching". A cylinder wall that has been properly "cross hatched" has a series of minute peaks and valleys cut into its surface. The face or portion of the piston ring that interfaces with the cross hatched cylinder wall is tapered to allow only a small portion of the ring to contact the honed cylinder wall. When the engine is operated, the tapered portion of the face of the piston ring rubs against the coarse surface of the cylinder wall causing wear on both objects.
Each tiny groove acts as the oil reservoir holding oil up to the top level of the groove where it then spreads over the peak surface. The piston ring must travel up and down over this grooved surface, and must "hydroplane" on the oil film retained by the grooves. Otherwise, the ring would make metal-to-metal contact with the cylinder wall and the cylinder would quickly wear out.
However the ring will only ride on this film of oil if there is sufficient surface area to support the ring on the oil. When the cylinders are freshly honed the peaks are sharp with little surface area. Our goal when seating the rings on new steel cylinders is to flatten out these peaks to give more surface area to support the rings, while leaving the bottom of the groove intact to hold enough oil to keep the surface of the cylinder wet with oil. See illustration. At the point where the top of the peaks produced by the honing operation become smooth and the tapered portion of the piston ring wears flat break in has occurred.
When the engine is operating, a force known as Break Mean Effective Pressure or B.M.E.P is generated within the combustion chamber. B.M.E.P. is the resultant force produced from the controlled burning of the fuel air mixture that the engine runs on. The higher the power setting the engine is running at, the higher the B.M.E.P. is and conversely as the power setting is lowered the B.M.E.P. becomes less.
B.M.E.P is an important part of the break in process. When the engine is running, B.M.E.P. is present in the cylinder behind the piston rings and it's force pushes the piston ring outward against the coarse honed cylinder wall. Piston rings are designed to take advantage of the pressure and us it to push the rings out against the cylinder wall. Therefore, as pressure builds during the compression stroke, the rings are pushed harder against the cylinder wall which aids in seating the rings.
The higher the B.M.E.P, the harder the piston ring is pushed against the wall. The surface temperature at the piston ring face and cylinder wall interface will be greater with high B.M.E.P. than with low B.M.E.P. This is because we are pushing the ring harder against the rough cylinder wall surface causing high amounts of friction and thus heat. The primary deterrent of break in is this heat. Allowing to much heat to build up at the ring to cylinder wall interface will cause the lubricating oil that is present to break down and glaze the cylinder wall surface. This glaze will prevent any further seating of the piston rings. If glazing is allowed to happen break in will never occur. Also, if too little pressure (throttle) is used during the break-in period glazing will also occur.
Most people seem to operate on the philosophy that they can best get their money's worth from any mechanical device by treating it with great care. This is probably true, but in many cases it is necessary to interpret what great care really means. This is particularly applicable when considering the break-in of a modern, reciprocating engine.
For those who still think that running the engine hard during break-in falls into the category of cruel and unusual punishment, there is one more argument for using high power loading for short periods (to avoid excessive heat) during the break-in. The use of low power settings does not expand the piston rings enough, and a film of oil is left on the cylinder walls. The high temperatures in the combustion chamber will oxidize this oil film so that it creates glazing of the cylinder walls. When this happens, the ring break-in process stops, and excessive oil consumption frequently occurs. The bad news is that extensive glazing can only be corrected by removing the cylinders and rehoning the walls. This is expensive, and it is an expense that can be avoided by proper break in procedures.
We must achieve a happy medium where we are pushing on the ring hard enough to wear it in but not hard enough to generate enough heat to cause glazing. Once again, if glazing should occur, the only remedy is to remove the effected cylinder, re-hone it and replace the piston rings and start the whole process over again.
