trev0006

Looks like the new E63 twin turbo is a giant killer with ECU upgrade.


Mercedes E63 AMG Evotech vs Ferrari 458 Italia - Street race featuring Mercedes E63 AMG Evotech tune vs Ferrari 458 Italia.

otakki

More reasons to go for an E63: faster (on a straight), carries more people and luggages=more useful, more reliable, cheaper in purchase price and maintenance, less likely to atract cops, and likely safer. Of course the 458 has some killer exhaust notes. But on a straight with all these reasons, 458 becomes nothing but all show and no go.

LawRens

Yet most would still rather have the Ferrari... Wonder why?

E-Ridium 63

Uhhh....I'd dump my e63 for a 458 any day. That's not even a fair question.

rieger

So if someone said they would trade their 458 for your E63 you would say no because it is faster in a straight line and carries more people?

hyperion667

wanted to watch, but there are other people out there driving too.....

BAD IDEA...

too stupid to watch, just my opinon

seo

Now put them on a track and let's see a 4300lb highway cruiser get mopped up by a 3200lb pedigree racer A bit too much pride there.

otakki

Which is why I mentioned "straight line."

C'mon, of course they can have my E63. But right after that, I will sell the 458 and buy another E63 and invest the difference. Seriously, that's what I'll do.

seo

Let's not get 2Fast2Furious about this Ferrari was made for the track, Mercedes was made for the street in a comfortable manner. There's a reason people choose an E63 over an EVO that's essentially a tin can with no amenities or refinement.

otakki

All Ferrari, Lambo, Pagani, etc are designed for the track. That makes them pretty much impractical in everyday life. For a daily driver that I can also take to the track, I would go for a SLS. However, SLS's trunk is also small.

LawRens

csquared

Yes, those cars are impractical because they're designed for speed and fast cornering. They're still comfortable to drive daily, but who would go to Costco in one of those. All you need is some hot model girlfriend sitting in the passenger side of the vehicle and nothing else.

otakki

Sorry guys, I know I'm hopeless.

E-Ridium 63

You just earned some props for admitting it!

bobafett

This is about as a ridiculous a statement as I've seen in a while. NONE of those cars are made for the track. Driving a road car on the track is absurdly boring and they really make for **** track cars. My pokey slow 996 Grand-Am car is a much better track car than the F40, 458, etc.

These cars (458, Aventador, Zonda, etc) are all designed to be driven on the road and enjoyed as such. Some of them are much better suited to every day conditions. People daily drive F40s. I wouldn't, but I daily drove Maranellos with complete comfort and reliability (seriously, Ferraris have been the most reliable cars I've owned - considerably moreso than any MB in my possession). If I had a 458, I'd drive it rain or shine, sleet or mud. It'd be very capable as such.

Basically you're speaking out of ignorance. Yeah, it's cool that a fast wagon with some tuning can out-drag a performance car, but it's apples and battleships. I love me a fast wagon and will be taking my FF up to Tahoe during winter for snowboarding season, but the point of the wagon is to be able to carry people and still have a bit of 'oomph' to be able to get on with some decent passing speed, etc. Maybe a bit of towing too. That's all, and that's all I intend to do with mine when it lands.

--Dan

bobafett

Forget costco, I take 'em to lumber mills. The GT cars, especially with a roof rack, make for a decent truck. Costco is a doddle.

--Dan

seo

Dan, I respect that you're an owner, but please - save it how a Ferrari 458 is not a road car made to take to the track on the weekends. Please don't clump together a Radical and 458 together because you'll just end up sounding stupid.

bobafett

I'm a little confused by your sentence - so you're saying that the marques listed above ARE for weekend track use? Being an owner has little to do with it except maybe having a few more insights. Spending an HPDE day with any of the aforementioned cars, you suddenly realize how woefully inadequate they are for track time. Street cars just aren't made for it. I'm still not sure how I equated a 458 with a Radical - if anything I've suggested how different they are (unless you're saying you can drive a Radical on the street, which is technically true but realistically ridiculous).

I'll readily say that you can "use" more of the car on track than on the street, but any track day you do - what would you rather have? Something purpose-built, or some kind of compromise that will have brake fade, soft suspension, crappy driving dynamics, etc? Spend two days (or a long day) in a road car out there and you feel like crap. Go out in something (yeah, a radical would be awesome though I've never driven one) designed to be there and it's infinitely better. Doesn't have to be expensive (you could probably pick up the same thing I've got for ~40k) - but it will be a materially better driving experience during any track day or event. Suddenly you'll realize just how awful any street car is in that environment. That's why no one has been able to build a true dual-purpose car.

--Dan

seo

Nobody is saying a Ferrari 458 is a Radical, which is what I was explaining.

Brake fade? They're carbon ceramics - most of the time it's driver error and has to do with the fluid...

You do realize this got blown out of proportion because some idiot thinks his 4000+lb highway cruiser is some sort of super 3000lb 550+hp semi-track car killer? I'm starting to think I should use the internet less, if only it wasn't my job to build websites

otakki

That would be me! Meanwhile, it looks like I have also turned into a troll on this thread via my hastily written responses.

Remember I kept on mentioning, "straight line only," since E63 (esp the wagon) is mostly a semi-utilitarian type of car with a bit of "ooomph." Thus it's not everyday when you see such a semi-track car being out-run on the straight by a semi-utilitarian car that's much heavier and at less than half of the cost. It's the same kick I got from watching the S65 vs Murcielago on youtube, or GTR outrunning lots of other big dogs on Top Gear. That's all there is.

Speaking of utilitarian vehicle with a good bit of oomph and decent safety...it should probably be G63/G65 for my weekly-biweekly run to the airport and shopping centers 100 miles away year-round through potholes ridden sections (through heavy snow in winter and going offroad being helpful at times); where it's uncommon to have 5+ full sized suitcases and tons of groceries overflowing onto the rear seats. With that, I don't think any Ferrari or Lambo would even come close to my definition of daily driver.

By the way, it's hard to associate italian built machines with reliability since they are usually not synonymous with such. Moreover, it's already well known that quite a few 458's were engulfed in flame and also one recentlyl with a FF.

bobafett

Gotcha. I read that all wrong.

All depends on the system. You'd be surprised how often it happens. Unfortunately most of these systems are effective within a fairly narrow temp band. Cold and they're like drum brakes, too hot and you might as well try to stick your head out the window for drag.

Hah. We all lost that one

--Dan

bobafett

A fire here and there isn't a big deal. Every marque and model has done it. Name a car or model, we can find an example. I don't mean to sound ridiculous, just my own observation that over 4 years of 550s with more than 170k miles, literally no issues that I didn't cause. 25k+ of F40 miles and the only issue was after a crappy tech didn't seal the cam properly. 360CS was absolutely bullet-proof. By comparison, S600 comes up with some fault or another basically every two weeks like clockwork. Only car better than the italians has been the landcruiser. E63 will be problematic too, but what other choice is there?

--Dan

seo

It's starting to worry me somebody in California other than myself is up at this ungodly hour

lunarx

No car is a real track car.
Even real race cars are obsolete after 1 season.
As for tracking a road car, it is more fun to drive a slow car fast than to drive a fast car slow.
If a Ferrari cant be considered a track car there must be a bad driver behind the wheel.

otakki

You are definitely one of the few who really use the cars that others mostly keep as garage queen. Hats off to that since that's what cars are for.

I have heard that MB's reliability seems to have gotten better after they cut loose Chrysler. Only time will tell.