Ferrari 458 vs E63 with ECU
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Ferrari 458 vs E63 with ECU
Looks like the new E63 twin turbo is a giant killer with ECU upgrade.
Mercedes E63 AMG Evotech vs Ferrari 458 Italia - Street race featuring Mercedes E63 AMG Evotech tune vs Ferrari 458 Italia.
Mercedes E63 AMG Evotech vs Ferrari 458 Italia - Street race featuring Mercedes E63 AMG Evotech tune vs Ferrari 458 Italia.
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FF. W212 E63 M156 non-pano 18" P2 ParkT NightV (gone but will be missed).
More reasons to go for an E63: faster (on a straight), carries more people and luggages=more useful, more reliable, cheaper in purchase price and maintenance, less likely to atract cops, and likely safer. Of course the 458 has some killer exhaust notes. But on a straight with all these reasons, 458 becomes nothing but all show and no go.
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From: Norcal
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More reasons to go for an E63: faster (on a straight), carries more people and luggages=more useful, more reliable, cheaper in purchase price and maintenance, less likely to atract cops, and likely safer. Of course the 458 has some killer exhaust notes. But on a straight with all these reasons, 458 becomes nothing but all show and no go.
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More reasons to go for an E63: faster (on a straight), carries more people and luggages=more useful, more reliable, cheaper in purchase price and maintenance, less likely to atract cops, and likely safer. Of course the 458 has some killer exhaust notes. But on a straight with all these reasons, 458 becomes nothing but all show and no go.
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More reasons to go for an E63: faster (on a straight), carries more people and luggages=more useful, more reliable, cheaper in purchase price and maintenance, less likely to atract cops, and likely safer. Of course the 458 has some killer exhaust notes. But on a straight with all these reasons, 458 becomes nothing but all show and no go.
A bit too much pride there.
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FF. W212 E63 M156 non-pano 18" P2 ParkT NightV (gone but will be missed).
Seriously, that's what I'll do.
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Ferrari was made for the track, Mercedes was made for the street in a comfortable manner. There's a reason people choose an E63 over an EVO that's essentially a tin can with no amenities or refinement.
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FF. W212 E63 M156 non-pano 18" P2 ParkT NightV (gone but will be missed).
All Ferrari, Lambo, Pagani, etc are designed for the track. That makes them pretty much impractical in everyday life. For a daily driver that I can also take to the track, I would go for a SLS. However, SLS's trunk is also small.
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From: Norcal
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2011 Mercedes E550 4M, 2003 BMW X5 4.4i
Yes, those cars are impractical because they're designed for speed and fast cornering. They're still comfortable to drive daily, but who would go to Costco in one of those. All you need is some hot model girlfriend sitting in the passenger side of the vehicle and nothing else.
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1M, F550M, F550B, F40, S600, 365GTC, DBSx2, etc.
These cars (458, Aventador, Zonda, etc) are all designed to be driven on the road and enjoyed as such. Some of them are much better suited to every day conditions. People daily drive F40s. I wouldn't, but I daily drove Maranellos with complete comfort and reliability (seriously, Ferraris have been the most reliable cars I've owned - considerably moreso than any MB in my possession). If I had a 458, I'd drive it rain or shine, sleet or mud. It'd be very capable as such.
Basically you're speaking out of ignorance. Yeah, it's cool that a fast wagon with some tuning can out-drag a performance car, but it's apples and battleships. I love me a fast wagon and will be taking my FF up to Tahoe during winter for snowboarding season, but the point of the wagon is to be able to carry people and still have a bit of 'oomph' to be able to get on with some decent passing speed, etc. Maybe a bit of towing too. That's all, and that's all I intend to do with mine when it lands.
--Dan
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1M, F550M, F550B, F40, S600, 365GTC, DBSx2, etc.
Yes, those cars are impractical because they're designed for speed and fast cornering. They're still comfortable to drive daily, but who would go to Costco in one of those. All you need is some hot model girlfriend sitting in the passenger side of the vehicle and nothing else.
--Dan
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Dan, I respect that you're an owner, but please - save it how a Ferrari 458 is not a road car made to take to the track on the weekends. Please don't clump together a Radical and 458 together because you'll just end up sounding stupid.
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1M, F550M, F550B, F40, S600, 365GTC, DBSx2, etc.
I'll readily say that you can "use" more of the car on track than on the street, but any track day you do - what would you rather have? Something purpose-built, or some kind of compromise that will have brake fade, soft suspension, crappy driving dynamics, etc? Spend two days (or a long day) in a road car out there and you feel like crap. Go out in something (yeah, a radical would be awesome though I've never driven one) designed to be there and it's infinitely better. Doesn't have to be expensive (you could probably pick up the same thing I've got for ~40k) - but it will be a materially better driving experience during any track day or event. Suddenly you'll realize just how awful any street car is in that environment. That's why no one has been able to build a true dual-purpose car.
--Dan
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I'm a little confused by your sentence - so you're saying that the marques listed above ARE for weekend track use? Being an owner has little to do with it except maybe having a few more insights. Spending an HPDE day with any of the aforementioned cars, you suddenly realize how woefully inadequate they are for track time. Street cars just aren't made for it. I'm still not sure how I equated a 458 with a Radical - if anything I've suggested how different they are (unless you're saying you can drive a Radical on the street, which is technically true but realistically ridiculous).
I'll readily say that you can "use" more of the car on track than on the street, but any track day you do - what would you rather have? Something purpose-built, or some kind of compromise that will have brake fade, soft suspension, crappy driving dynamics, etc? Spend two days (or a long day) in a road car out there and you feel like crap. Go out in something (yeah, a radical would be awesome though I've never driven one) designed to be there and it's infinitely better. Doesn't have to be expensive (you could probably pick up the same thing I've got for ~40k) - but it will be a materially better driving experience during any track day or event. Suddenly you'll realize just how awful any street car is in that environment. That's why no one has been able to build a true dual-purpose car
--Dan
I'll readily say that you can "use" more of the car on track than on the street, but any track day you do - what would you rather have? Something purpose-built, or some kind of compromise that will have brake fade, soft suspension, crappy driving dynamics, etc? Spend two days (or a long day) in a road car out there and you feel like crap. Go out in something (yeah, a radical would be awesome though I've never driven one) designed to be there and it's infinitely better. Doesn't have to be expensive (you could probably pick up the same thing I've got for ~40k) - but it will be a materially better driving experience during any track day or event. Suddenly you'll realize just how awful any street car is in that environment. That's why no one has been able to build a true dual-purpose car
--Dan
Nobody is saying a Ferrari 458 is a Radical, which is what I was explaining.
Brake fade? They're carbon ceramics - most of the time it's driver error and has to do with the fluid...
You do realize this got blown out of proportion because some idiot thinks his 4000+lb highway cruiser is some sort of super 3000lb 550+hp semi-track car killer? I'm starting to think I should use the internet less, if only it wasn't my job to build websites
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FF. W212 E63 M156 non-pano 18" P2 ParkT NightV (gone but will be missed).
That would be me! Meanwhile, it looks like I have also turned into a troll on this thread via my hastily written responses
.
Remember I kept on mentioning, "straight line only," since E63 (esp the wagon) is mostly a semi-utilitarian type of car with a bit of "ooomph." Thus it's not everyday when you see such a semi-track car being out-run on the straight by a semi-utilitarian car that's much heavier and at less than half of the cost. It's the same kick I got from watching the S65 vs Murcielago on youtube, or GTR outrunning lots of other big dogs on Top Gear. That's all there is.
Speaking of utilitarian vehicle with a good bit of oomph and decent safety...it should probably be G63/G65 for my weekly-biweekly run to the airport and shopping centers 100 miles away year-round through potholes ridden sections (through heavy snow in winter and going offroad being helpful at times); where it's uncommon to have 5+ full sized suitcases and tons of groceries overflowing onto the rear seats. With that, I don't think any Ferrari or Lambo would even come close to my definition of daily driver.
By the way, it's hard to associate italian built machines with reliability since they are usually not synonymous with such. Moreover, it's already well known that quite a few 458's were engulfed in flame and also one recentlyl with a FF.
.Remember I kept on mentioning, "straight line only," since E63 (esp the wagon) is mostly a semi-utilitarian type of car with a bit of "ooomph." Thus it's not everyday when you see such a semi-track car being out-run on the straight by a semi-utilitarian car that's much heavier and at less than half of the cost. It's the same kick I got from watching the S65 vs Murcielago on youtube, or GTR outrunning lots of other big dogs on Top Gear. That's all there is.
Speaking of utilitarian vehicle with a good bit of oomph and decent safety...it should probably be G63/G65 for my weekly-biweekly run to the airport and shopping centers 100 miles away year-round through potholes ridden sections (through heavy snow in winter and going offroad being helpful at times); where it's uncommon to have 5+ full sized suitcases and tons of groceries overflowing onto the rear seats. With that, I don't think any Ferrari or Lambo would even come close to my definition of daily driver.
By the way, it's hard to associate italian built machines with reliability since they are usually not synonymous with such. Moreover, it's already well known that quite a few 458's were engulfed in flame and also one recentlyl with a FF.
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1M, F550M, F550B, F40, S600, 365GTC, DBSx2, etc.
Originally Posted by seo
Nobody is saying a Ferrari 458 is a Radical, which is what I was explaining.
Brake fade? They're carbon ceramics - most of the time it's driver error and has to do with the fluid...
I'm starting to think I should use the internet less, if only it wasn't my job to build websites
--Dan
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1M, F550M, F550B, F40, S600, 365GTC, DBSx2, etc.
Speaking of utilitarian vehicle with a good bit of oomph and decent safety...it should probably be G63/G65 for my weekly-biweekly run to the airport and shopping centers 100 miles away year-round through potholes ridden sections (through heavy snow in winter and going offroad being helpful at times); where it's uncommon to have 5+ full sized suitcases and tons of groceries overflowing onto the rear seats. With that, I don't think any Ferrari or Lambo would even come close to my definition of daily driver.
By the way, it's hard to associate italian built machines with reliability since they are usually not synonymous with such. Moreover, it's already well known that quite a few 458's were engulfed in flame and also one recentlyl with a FF.
By the way, it's hard to associate italian built machines with reliability since they are usually not synonymous with such. Moreover, it's already well known that quite a few 458's were engulfed in flame and also one recentlyl with a FF.
--Dan
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07 M6 | 09 RX-8 | 07 LGT Wagon | 17 Bolt
No car is a real track car.
Even real race cars are obsolete after 1 season.
As for tracking a road car, it is more fun to drive a slow car fast than to drive a fast car slow.
If a Ferrari cant be considered a track car there must be a bad driver behind the wheel.
Even real race cars are obsolete after 1 season.
As for tracking a road car, it is more fun to drive a slow car fast than to drive a fast car slow.
If a Ferrari cant be considered a track car there must be a bad driver behind the wheel.
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FF. W212 E63 M156 non-pano 18" P2 ParkT NightV (gone but will be missed).
A fire here and there isn't a big deal. Every marque and model has done it. Name a car or model, we can find an example. I don't mean to sound ridiculous, just my own observation that over 4 years of 550s with more than 170k miles, literally no issues that I didn't cause. 25k+ of F40 miles and the only issue was after a crappy tech didn't seal the cam properly. 360CS was absolutely bullet-proof. By comparison, S600 comes up with some fault or another basically every two weeks like clockwork. Only car better than the italians has been the landcruiser. E63 will be problematic too, but what other choice is there?
--Dan
--Dan
I have heard that MB's reliability seems to have gotten better after they cut loose Chrysler. Only time will tell.
