Stuck Open Injector Destroys Engine
Newbie
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
From: Pittsburgh
08' E63, 12' Escalade
Update
Ok, I was able to take the E63 out last night for a drive and a little testing
. Im happy to report that it feels BETTER that it ever has (I purchased used about 7K miles ago)! I was a little scared at first, but after a few mins of grandma driving I put the hammer down and rugged it! Felt great, and man did I miss her...
As for the repairs and such; From everything I was told and can see from the actual list of parts and repairs that were performed, I do not believe it was from faulty head bolts. Nor do I believe my case was a result from ANYTHING being at fault on the part of Mercedes/AMG. I am not saying at all that there isnt an issue(s) with the M156 engines, there may or may not be, I dont know. Im just saying that I do not believe there was in my case. My original theory that I got bad/dirty gas from a gas station that I KNOW not to get gas at (but did anyway
) is what I believe is the root of my problems.
The Service Manager said that it was a fuel injector (#7) that was completely open. He said it looks like debris blew it out and gas filled up the cylinder, then came up through the intake manifold and filled up another cylinder as well, resulting in the hydro-locking of the engine. Luckily I had shut it off before the hydro-lock, and it didnt happen while the car was still running which could have done internal damage. After I shut it off and tried (repeatedly) to start it the next day, it locked up and destroyed the starter.
Heres a list of what they replaced:
8 spark plugs
8 fuel injectors
starter
intake manifold
filter element
oil and filter change (I assume it was flushed and changed?)
various seals/gaskets, and other little parts
They also did an interior and exterior cleaning, filled up the tank, and delivered it directly to my garage.
I couldnt be happier with Mercedes right now. They DID NOT HAVE to do this, but they did. That speaks volumes about them, and their dedication to their brand and customers. Maybe I got lucky and just have a very good Mercedes dealer (Bobby Rahal of Pittsburgh), who knows.. But after being a Cadillac customer for the past several years (3 Escalades, an STS, and a CTS, all new and fully loaded), and completely disappointed with their customer service, I am now officially a Mercedes customer for life (Im only 37 so hopefully I will have quite a few purchases from them).. Thank you, thank you, thank you, Mercedes...
. Im happy to report that it feels BETTER that it ever has (I purchased used about 7K miles ago)! I was a little scared at first, but after a few mins of grandma driving I put the hammer down and rugged it! Felt great, and man did I miss her... As for the repairs and such; From everything I was told and can see from the actual list of parts and repairs that were performed, I do not believe it was from faulty head bolts. Nor do I believe my case was a result from ANYTHING being at fault on the part of Mercedes/AMG. I am not saying at all that there isnt an issue(s) with the M156 engines, there may or may not be, I dont know. Im just saying that I do not believe there was in my case. My original theory that I got bad/dirty gas from a gas station that I KNOW not to get gas at (but did anyway
) is what I believe is the root of my problems.The Service Manager said that it was a fuel injector (#7) that was completely open. He said it looks like debris blew it out and gas filled up the cylinder, then came up through the intake manifold and filled up another cylinder as well, resulting in the hydro-locking of the engine. Luckily I had shut it off before the hydro-lock, and it didnt happen while the car was still running which could have done internal damage. After I shut it off and tried (repeatedly) to start it the next day, it locked up and destroyed the starter.
Heres a list of what they replaced:
8 spark plugs
8 fuel injectors
starter
intake manifold
filter element
oil and filter change (I assume it was flushed and changed?)
various seals/gaskets, and other little parts
They also did an interior and exterior cleaning, filled up the tank, and delivered it directly to my garage.
I couldnt be happier with Mercedes right now. They DID NOT HAVE to do this, but they did. That speaks volumes about them, and their dedication to their brand and customers. Maybe I got lucky and just have a very good Mercedes dealer (Bobby Rahal of Pittsburgh), who knows.. But after being a Cadillac customer for the past several years (3 Escalades, an STS, and a CTS, all new and fully loaded), and completely disappointed with their customer service, I am now officially a Mercedes customer for life (Im only 37 so hopefully I will have quite a few purchases from them).. Thank you, thank you, thank you, Mercedes...
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Joined: Nov 2010
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FF. W212 E63 M156 non-pano 18" P2 ParkT NightV (gone but will be missed).
Newbie
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
From: Pittsburgh
08' E63, 12' Escalade
reply
It wasnt on the work order, so I have to assume they didnt. In the situation I was in, I didnt know if my motor was completely destroyed, or was a "not that bad" fix, which was actually the case. When they told me it was either faulty head bolts/and or stuck open injectors I thought they would just put the new head bolts in during their attempt at the initial fix, but was really just more concerned about it actually getting fixed and at what cost to me. If I would have known that it was the injector and NOT the headbolts, I would have insisted on them replacing the headbolts while they were in there, even at the cost to me.. Again, it was covered by Mercedes and I really kind of feel like I wasnt in a position to push my luck with them since my car was out of warranty...
Newbie
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
S63
Sorry to revive an old thread, but I have a family member who has an S63 that had a catastrophic engine failure due to fuel hydro-lock. Of those who have had this happen, either being lucky enough for it to not be catastrophic, or not, which cylinder did this happen in? I'm just curious if this is happening more often than not in a specific cylinder.
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,752
Likes: 175
From: London, UK
W212 - E63 AMG
I'm glad that you did! I wasn't aware of this issue until now...
As for which cylinder, that will be totally random and down to which individual injector decides to stay open. There isn't a set path as such for knowing which one will fill up.
Seems like regular injector cleaning additives would be a good preventative maintenance ploy for this engine. Either that, or just get your injectors refurbished and cleaned by a specialist local to you and benefit from the better/cleaner spray pattern/atomisation also.
As for which cylinder, that will be totally random and down to which individual injector decides to stay open. There isn't a set path as such for knowing which one will fill up.
Seems like regular injector cleaning additives would be a good preventative maintenance ploy for this engine. Either that, or just get your injectors refurbished and cleaned by a specialist local to you and benefit from the better/cleaner spray pattern/atomisation also.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,462
Likes: 54
FF. W212 E63 M156 non-pano 18" P2 ParkT NightV (gone but will be missed).
Seems like regular injector cleaning additives would be a good preventative maintenance ploy for this engine. Either that, or just get your injectors refurbished and cleaned by a specialist local to you and benefit from the better/cleaner spray pattern/atomisation also.
http://www.toptiergas.com/
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PLATINUM SPONSOR
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,834
Likes: 65
From: Texas
2003 CL55
What year is the S63? M156 or m157 engine?
Boys and girls, that means staying with Top Tier Gas. Better yet, stay with gas with Techron. Hopefully, the detergent is enough in them.
http://www.toptiergas.com/
Boys and girls, that means staying with Top Tier Gas. Better yet, stay with gas with Techron. Hopefully, the detergent is enough in them.
http://www.toptiergas.com/
__________________
E63 Biturbo, UPD Cold Air induction kit, UPD performance crank pulley and UPD adjustable rear suspension with ride height adjustment.
CL55 UPD Cold Air Boost kit, UPD 3000 stall converter, UPD 77mm SC clutched pulley and beltwrap kit, Custom long tubes, UPD crank pulley , UPD suspension kit, UPD SC pulley, Aux. HE, Trunk tank w/rule 2000 pump, Mezeire pump, UPD 5pc idler set, Aluminum rotor hats.
www.ultimatepd.com
instagram @ultimate_pd
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E63 Biturbo, UPD Cold Air induction kit, UPD performance crank pulley and UPD adjustable rear suspension with ride height adjustment.
CL55 UPD Cold Air Boost kit, UPD 3000 stall converter, UPD 77mm SC clutched pulley and beltwrap kit, Custom long tubes, UPD crank pulley , UPD suspension kit, UPD SC pulley, Aux. HE, Trunk tank w/rule 2000 pump, Mezeire pump, UPD 5pc idler set, Aluminum rotor hats.
www.ultimatepd.com
instagram @ultimate_pd
facebook.com/ultimatepd
Super Member
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 955
Likes: 127
From: Kansas
2003 E55, 2003 SL55, 2014 CLS63, 2018 q50 Redsport, 1968 Camaro SS, 1999 Trans am Firehawk
the m156 aren't the only ones with problems with this. On both my 03 sl55 and 03e55 (m113k engines) this happened. Luckily I was idling with both when it happened and there appears to be no long term damage. I suggest with how cheap 550 injectors are nowadays to just go ahead and upgrade to them on the m113k engines at least as a maintenance item.
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 369
Likes: 53
07' E63
I have a 2007 E63 that I have rebuilt. I had the Heads rebuilt (8 Valves were bent!) and installed New Headbolts, a new Power Steering Pump and HP Hose, New Racing Brakes, pads, referb'd OEM front AirStruts, F1 Adjustable Camber Front Control Arms, new torque Arms, Shorty Headers, Refurb'd Intake by RMT, and so on.... I then tried to start it with the STAR Computer hooked up and it ran for maybe 30-40 seconds before I turned it off as it sounded so bad. It was seemingly starving for gas but I couldn't be sure the timing wasn't at fault either, even though I was very careful making sure the Crank was at 40 before and after tightening the Cam Adjusters down. Well, I tried starting it the next day after taking time to review the STAR Diagnostics, but it wouldn't turn over! So I busted out the long torque wrench to try turning the Crank, but it was a no go!! I tried turning it backwards (counterclockwise) and it would gradually go but not easily.
I then took the valve covers off and saw one of the Cam Adjusters was a little loose in that I could see a gap between the Cap and the middle section!! I thought this may have been due to me both not having tightening the CA tight enough after reassembley as I had disassembled them all via Tasos' instructions after installing the Heads and discovered that the prior mechanic had literally installed the inner sprockets of each of the Passenger Side CA's backwards which caused for the Cam to NOT mate with the inner face of the CA!!! Crazy! It's amazing the car even ran well at all during my test drive prior to purchase!!
Nevertheless, I took out all the spark plugs in order to safely rotate the Crankshaft to TDC in order to install the tools to remove the CA's, as they were also not in alignment. In doing so, I noticed, as I was rotating the Crankshaft clockwise (whereas I wasn't unable to do so before taking out the spark plugs), fuel first coming out of the second piston from the firewall on the drivers side (closest to the fuel line) so I promptly sucked it out with a mini Pump. After that was done, I still was slowly cranking towards TDC and noticed the same from the first piston! As such, this Fuel Hydrolock must have been the reason I could not, nor could the starter, turn the Crank prior to removing the spark plugs! I carefully absorbed any and all oil/gas from under the Exhaust Cam afterwards, btw...
So after thinking I may have done serious damage, like a bent valve or rod, it seems that fuel hydrolock was the reason for the No Start the following day. Although I can't rule out a faulty injector even though I did pay to have them all tested while the Heads were off, my concern has to do with the Fuel Rail starting out empty. It seems as gas was being pumped into the empty fuel rail, the first two injectors were robbing all the fuel and filling up each cylinder? This may be why it sounded so aweful during the 30-40 seconds and why STAR reported misfires in 6 of 8 cylinders afterwards!!!
I'm guessing it would be a good idea, although not mentioned on any of these forums, to manually fill up the fuel rail and then connect it to the fuel line!!! I'm thinking this way, all the injectors will have gas at first start. There may be a pocket of air in the fuel line before it hits the rail, but hopefully that will be minimized my manually filling it up beforehand. I'm thinking the secondary benefit would be visually seeing whether or not any of the injectors are open prior to install?? Wish me luck and hopefully someone with experience can chime in as it sort of blows me away all these guys that have done thier Heads and such and NOT mentioned this problem that could be otherwise avoided!!!
Needless to say, I took off the visibly improper Cam Adjuster and put it back together again using fresh oil everywhere except using brakleen where the diamond washer sits. I'll have to remove the others as well since the Crank is about an 1/8" off TDC in relation to the Cams. I sure hope to hear before starting her again someone chime in on bleeding the fuel rail?
I then took the valve covers off and saw one of the Cam Adjusters was a little loose in that I could see a gap between the Cap and the middle section!! I thought this may have been due to me both not having tightening the CA tight enough after reassembley as I had disassembled them all via Tasos' instructions after installing the Heads and discovered that the prior mechanic had literally installed the inner sprockets of each of the Passenger Side CA's backwards which caused for the Cam to NOT mate with the inner face of the CA!!! Crazy! It's amazing the car even ran well at all during my test drive prior to purchase!!
Nevertheless, I took out all the spark plugs in order to safely rotate the Crankshaft to TDC in order to install the tools to remove the CA's, as they were also not in alignment. In doing so, I noticed, as I was rotating the Crankshaft clockwise (whereas I wasn't unable to do so before taking out the spark plugs), fuel first coming out of the second piston from the firewall on the drivers side (closest to the fuel line) so I promptly sucked it out with a mini Pump. After that was done, I still was slowly cranking towards TDC and noticed the same from the first piston! As such, this Fuel Hydrolock must have been the reason I could not, nor could the starter, turn the Crank prior to removing the spark plugs! I carefully absorbed any and all oil/gas from under the Exhaust Cam afterwards, btw...
So after thinking I may have done serious damage, like a bent valve or rod, it seems that fuel hydrolock was the reason for the No Start the following day. Although I can't rule out a faulty injector even though I did pay to have them all tested while the Heads were off, my concern has to do with the Fuel Rail starting out empty. It seems as gas was being pumped into the empty fuel rail, the first two injectors were robbing all the fuel and filling up each cylinder? This may be why it sounded so aweful during the 30-40 seconds and why STAR reported misfires in 6 of 8 cylinders afterwards!!!
I'm guessing it would be a good idea, although not mentioned on any of these forums, to manually fill up the fuel rail and then connect it to the fuel line!!! I'm thinking this way, all the injectors will have gas at first start. There may be a pocket of air in the fuel line before it hits the rail, but hopefully that will be minimized my manually filling it up beforehand. I'm thinking the secondary benefit would be visually seeing whether or not any of the injectors are open prior to install?? Wish me luck and hopefully someone with experience can chime in as it sort of blows me away all these guys that have done thier Heads and such and NOT mentioned this problem that could be otherwise avoided!!!
Needless to say, I took off the visibly improper Cam Adjuster and put it back together again using fresh oil everywhere except using brakleen where the diamond washer sits. I'll have to remove the others as well since the Crank is about an 1/8" off TDC in relation to the Cams. I sure hope to hear before starting her again someone chime in on bleeding the fuel rail?
Last edited by E63007; Feb 20, 2021 at 11:40 AM.
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 369
Likes: 53
07' E63
Ok, so I removed the fuel rail and couldn't help but notice that the second injector from the firewall Driver's side (Cylinder #7) was clearly dripping fuel! I also noticed on one of the other injectors that the lower collar which secures the lower O'ring was cracked. I then took my wireless borescope sync'd to my iPad and took a look down the 7th cylinder injector hole and noticed a pool of fuel in each Intake runner! No question now that it was that injector which caused the hydrolock after shutdown! Needless to say, I sucked out the remaining fuel and used the scope to look down every hole including spark plug holes to make sure no other fuel was anywhere. And for the hell of it, since I had to take the Y piece for the air Intake out in order to remove the fuel rail, I thought I'd take a look into the Lower chamber of the Air Intake. What I saw was a very shallow pool of fuel both close to the firewall (mostly) and another beyond that too! Because the lower chamber is ribbed, those pools were distinct and separate so I then used a medium wide wire hose brush and wrapped it with 3 blue Scott Shop Towels and secured the high end of it with some duct tape. With one hand I held the scope to view and with the other I very gingerly positioned the end of the towels in the first pool to absorb the fuel, which it very clearly did effectively! It took several tries with fresh towels each time and then a little swiping back and forth to get it all up, as well as some of the fresh silver paint from the interior of my brand new Intake! I can't say enough how much that little, actually NOT so little as the bendable cord is about 15' long, borescope has paid for itself many times over! I never would have caught that pool in the Intake otherwise!! I hate to think what might have happened if I tried starting her up with that fuel sitting in there! I must say that I'm a little concerned that there may be some fuel lingering in the Intakes Upper Chamber too possibly, right? I mean, if the injector is downstream of the Intake, in order for fuel to go upstream into the Intake and settle on the floor of the Intake, coupled with the fact that I sucked a total of at least a pint of gas out of the two cylinder chamber's, Intake Runners and bottom of the Intake, fuel must have pushed upwards past the Intake Valves into the top chamber in order to settle in the lower chamber, right? And as I think of it, fuel probably went down the Exhaust valves too drivers side, so that means I may have to replace the 02 sensors now if they were fouled. I'll have to verify with STAR after I get everything hooked back up to do a Scan. Hopefully the Cat isn't completely trashed too!
Last edited by E63007; Oct 4, 2020 at 07:02 AM.
Super Member
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 975
Likes: 270
From: Fort Worth TX
2020 S560, 2014 SLK55 (Prev. 2016 S65, 2013 SLK350, 2008 CLS63, 2006 E350, 2006 CLS500, 2005 C230K)
Honestly I had completely forgotten about this issue until yesterday, injector #8 stuck open in my CLS63. Since I had forgotten about this and I had recently replaced the intake man gasket I hydrolocked it against the starter as I was getting ready to check for vacuum leaks...
We'll see how bad it is...
I guess this is my +1 to preventive injector replacement
We'll see how bad it is...
I guess this is my +1 to preventive injector replacement
Super Member
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 975
Likes: 270
From: Fort Worth TX
2020 S560, 2014 SLK55 (Prev. 2016 S65, 2013 SLK350, 2008 CLS63, 2006 E350, 2006 CLS500, 2005 C230K)
New injectors in, some smoke at startup that seemed to be fuel but engine seems to have survived. Will short cycle a few times to try to minimize further damage to the cat, hopefully the bill does not keep growing...
Super Member
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 975
Likes: 270
From: Fort Worth TX
2020 S560, 2014 SLK55 (Prev. 2016 S65, 2013 SLK350, 2008 CLS63, 2006 E350, 2006 CLS500, 2005 C230K)
Well f#ck...
So replaced all injectors months ago got back on the road without any additional problems until yesterday.
Engine failure at 160MPH, I don't have any tools to work on it now but from what I can gather injector #3 stuck open and hydrolocked.
Now thinking it's not an injector problem but a debris problem in the fuel system most likely due to corrosion.
Engine failure at 160MPH, I don't have any tools to work on it now but from what I can gather injector #3 stuck open and hydrolocked.
Now thinking it's not an injector problem but a debris problem in the fuel system most likely due to corrosion.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,752
Likes: 175
From: London, UK
W212 - E63 AMG
Pissed...sorry to hear that man. I also wonder sometimes if it's the two wires that lead to the injector plug shorting on each other as the rubber sheathing comes off with age. Mine were like two exposed bits of copper wire just a mm or two away from each other at times. Whatever the rationale is, it totally sucks for you. May the Lord give you patience bro.
Oh...lastly, what made you think it was #3 without opening it up/having any tools...?
Oh...lastly, what made you think it was #3 without opening it up/having any tools...?
Super Member
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 975
Likes: 270
From: Fort Worth TX
2020 S560, 2014 SLK55 (Prev. 2016 S65, 2013 SLK350, 2008 CLS63, 2006 E350, 2006 CLS500, 2005 C230K)
At this point definitely a preliminary diagnostic with just the symptoms and fault codes registered. It may will turn out to be wrong.
Super Member
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 975
Likes: 270
From: Fort Worth TX
2020 S560, 2014 SLK55 (Prev. 2016 S65, 2013 SLK350, 2008 CLS63, 2006 E350, 2006 CLS500, 2005 C230K)
Well it was not #3
Don't have time to work on it so got it to the only specialist I trust.
#7 broken rod, broken block and damaged head. Not paying to have it disassembled, would love to determine failure but not enough to pay for the tear down (Likely a consequence of damage from the injector failure months ago anyways).
Putting in a 2012 engine, man how I love/hate the m156...
#7 broken rod, broken block and damaged head. Not paying to have it disassembled, would love to determine failure but not enough to pay for the tear down (Likely a consequence of damage from the injector failure months ago anyways).
Putting in a 2012 engine, man how I love/hate the m156...
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 369
Likes: 53
07' E63
I might elaborate on what I ended up doing after my previously mentioned mishap. Again, I had rebuilt my engine and front end which took several months which meant the heads, Cams, Valves were devoid of oil lubricant! I too experienced Hydrolock due to faulty injector as mentioned. I ended up removing all the injectors, which BTW I had tested before installing and all passed, and ended up buying 8 new ones. After making sure all was clean of excess gas, the key was to remove all 8 Injector harnesses to ensure upon Start that the cylinders receive no gas. Bear in mind, the car had not been started for several months since I had rebuilt it, so no Oil had been introduced to the cylinders, Camshafts, nor valve train. So, what you do in this instance is to open up the Oil filler cap on the Driver Side Valve Cover, have an assistant with a flashlight stand there to observe (boroscope could work too?) and then you turn the key and engage Start for 1-2 seconds (about 20-30 times) until you see Oil being circulated in the Valve train. Then hook up the 8 injector harnesses, put the Oil Cap back on and start her up! This pearl of wisdom was given to me from non other than a Mercedes Tech himself!!!! Hope this helps any of you DIYr's out there!!
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,752
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From: London, UK
W212 - E63 AMG
20-30 times?? Everything would have been likely lubricated enough after the 2nd or 3rd, but I guess it doesn't really do any harm to do it 17 or 27 times more.
Glad you managed to get it sorted and running again though. Gosh rebuilding an M156 must have been expensive.
Glad you managed to get it sorted and running again though. Gosh rebuilding an M156 must have been expensive.
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 369
Likes: 53
07' E63
Each Head to get rebuilt was about $500, the rebuilt Intake was slightly more, new injectors $350, Headbolts $200, Rear Main Seal $15, rebuilt AirSprings from RMT, All new bushings, Drive Shaft Discs, New Bolts, A/C Compressor, Radiator/tranny cooler/A/C, PS Pump, Air Compressor, F&R Brake/Rotors, Shorty Headers, UPD Rear Toe and F1 Front Camber Arms, 3.06 Gear Swap with M-Factory LSD, it all adds up but I saved a ton installing it all myself!
