Shellbmb

Looking at some pre-owned 2012-2013 E63's and some 2013 M5's. There are tons of M5's with very low miles, but hardly any E63's. Are people really that unimpressed with the M5? There are zero E63's within 500 miles of me and 10 M5's. And there are only 9 total used 12/13 E63's in the country at least according to autotrader with 5 of those being wagons. I would think production numbers would be similar, but I don't know. Just thought this was interesting. I've been in an MB for the last 5 years and was considering jumping ship since I like the styling of the M a little better than the current and future E63. Most of the reviews on here are very positive for the m5.

Gsc

You could prolly get a new M5 at invoice. TOns of those around.

captlst

Production is much lower for the E63. I think that has a lot to do with it.......M5's can be purchased for less than invoice, trust me I tried buying one before I ordered te 14 E63S.

Shellbmb

Why did you pass on the m5?

vdubpower

Less than invoice. ?? Really wow

My friend just bought one from crevier in so-cal yesterday. Monte Carlo/black, executive pack, driver assist, b and o, for 104000. Which is sticker.

track_warrior

If the invoice price is true he must feel like an idiot

vdubpower

he will when i tell him, lol and then smoke him

but seriously msrp is like 90ish grand and invoice would be under 90, why the heck would they sell them that cheap already??

Vic55

Economics 101- supply and demand... the M5's are just starting their new cycle and the E63 2013's are all but done and gap between model years is now occuring. Nothing new here guys. So the M5's are flooded on the market and dealers will give them away..... IF YOU ASK/DEMAND.

As for getting a deal on an M5- Its absolutely possible but its no different than any other car buying process; you have to ask and negotiate. If you settle... you settle. So the poor chap that paid 104k msrp is probably loving his car as long as we dont tell him about it and the guy that ground his price to 96k is happy too and with a lower payment. Its all relative to what you have. I like to get my cars personally when they are newer in the market: 2004 E55, 2005 CL65, 2007 997.1TT, 2009 GTR, 2012 CLS63, 2012 E63, 2013 M5, 2013 M6, etc and yes I spend a little more but I still get great deals. Now when I get cars that have been around a little longer we all know we can steal those. Case in point, my 2010 E63- sticker was 102k and I paid 73k...... or my new Audi R8 V10 - sticker 175k and I paid 135k.

hinewwin

I love your car collection!

otakki

R8 V10?!...Man, I wonder what's the next one in line.

vdubpower

Corvette stingray

emericr

I tend to disagree a bit with Vic on this one.
When the V10 M5 came out, you could not find one on a parking lot and they commanded at least MSRP for a while.
My local dealer has 3 new M5s on the lot and they are not moving.
I personally think that the new M5 moved too far away from its core and the demand is not there therefore leading to a surplus on dealer lots.
The used ones abundance could be caused because the purchaser is not in love with the car.

otakki

I have heard the next model year M5 has 15 additional hp. I guess that will really help with the surplus that's already on the lot.

jayb289

r8 v10?? damn bro, you change cars more than j-lo changed men back in the day lol

Vic55

A new performance edition of a car (F10 M5) almost always will demand a premium at inception. The reason you didnt see cars on the lot from the August inception until almost October was due to the oil pump recall and the dealers were not able to sell them or advertise while the parts came in from Germany. I should know, I bought one in Sept and waited for it to be repaired in October. All of the fleet was held at the port for installs of the pump unless they were already on the dealer lots. In that case the car would get the pump installed at the dealer. This definitely slowed down the perceived availability of the car if one was truly shopping for it. I used to find maybe 7 M5's ready for sale within a 500 mile range of me in Sept. Now you can find boatloads. So it comes back down to economics of supply and demand; there was alot of demand for the new car and not alot of units and then demand since has slowed but the production hasnt.

There will always be core changes in cars that will lose some of the most devout supporters. BMW just produced too many M5's. No different than when AMG producted too many 2010 E63's and they had to dump trunk money into the car. The same will happen with the M5 if they dont move in a timely fashion as the 2014's start to come out.

Gsc

I have 2 dealers whom are desperately looking to unload cars $500 under invoice. Cars have 20's, Exec and B&O.

emericr

Vic: not sure where you are getting that there was a lot of demand.
At least in Florida, most dealers have had a very difficult time selling their inventory since inception. It went from MRSP to some discounts to invoice pretty quickly.

Vic55

Im in the business--- I knew the supply and demand of bmw north america especially on the west coast. They flooded the market (which caused the dip in the last 4 months) and the oil pump delay slowed the the initial roll out by 2 months (which caused purchasing delays and actually increased demand due to units on the ground). So for the first few months after the pump fixtures the supply was slow as the initial buyers who werent watching their dollars and sense just bought- like me I knew back then in October that I could have waited maybe 60-90 days and saved 5k or more, I didnt care.

AMG is the same way, especially E classes- once they are out for 3-4 months you will see pricing dip. BMW has done this many times before- and will probably throw down trunk money to clear out the 2013s as 2014 is an LCI model with a performance option (ecu, exhaust, others). Its cyclical.

LJMartin

Just coming from a E60 M5 I think know the reason there are so many on the lot. The SMG tranny has a lot of problems and are expensive to fix. There have been quite a few posts that the rod bearings show a lot of wear at 80k. The first thing a new member is told is do not own an M5 without a warranty and a lot of the major warranty companies (and the list is growing) won't cover them any more. I got quotes on both a 2010 e63 and a 2010 M5 and the price was almost double. The fact that most of the e60 are now out of warranty is the reason they are just sitting there. Don't know how problematic the E63 is, but I guess I will find out.

otakki

I wouldn't own either one without a warranty.

stevel8206

Are there any discounts to be had on Used 2012 e63's? Anybody had any luck?

YellowJacket

I am considering these two as well. Best i've seen on 2012's is $70k.

I like the M5 as well, but I drive a lot of miles each day. Notice the M5 only gets 20 mgh highway, while the E63 gets 24. Thats a big difference and surprising since the E63 is even quicker.

Normally I would not care, but I drive a 45 minute commute each day.

stevel8206

Do you think they would negotiate even lower than that considering the new e63 is coming out?

nynd

All comes down to what you like. The M5 has a more aggressive look and the E63 more tame. Both beautiful and excellent car, just depends on what you want. If your going to go the E63 route you definitely want one with the P30 pkg (red calipers, LSD, HP boost, etc..). Other area to consider is E63 uses MCT for shifting (which from what I've heard seems to shift slower) and the M5 you can get 6 sod manual or DCT. The DCT from all accounts seems to be the next big wave. All rivals (Ferrari, Lambo etc) are getting rid of manuals and going the DCT route so stick shift seems to be on its way out for this size of car. As for warranty, probably a good idea for both! Other plus for M5 is free maintenance for 4 years.. so no worries there, your 4 mpg will be negated for your savings in maintenance and the auto start stop function if enabled (although more starter wear... lol).

otakki

That's only when the eco mode is on for the E63. Otherwise, it's probably similar.