drjimrd

I have been following with interest the posts on winter tire choices for the 2014 4matic E63. There are limited options in the staggered fitment - really only the Pirelli Sotozero series II in a true winter tire. At the recommendation of Luke at Tire Rack, I had decided to go with the PA4's in 255 all around, as they appear to be a superior winter tire. The rear wheels are a little too wide for a 255, but he assured me it would not be a problem. I want to use the stock wheels for winter use, and get some nice ones for the summer. I live in CO and this car is my daily driver, so I need good winter tires.
When I went to my local shop to order the PA4's, they were very reluctant to do this. They felt the one inch wider wheel in the back. could substantially change the diameter of the tire when compared to the front, and this could cause issues with the 4Matic. The service department at the dealership will not make a recommendation for winter tires because they do not have adequate speed rating for this car!
The tire shop will order and install the PA4's provided I sign a waiver.
Interestingly, the owners manual does list 255's all around as an option for winter tires for the 4Matic. It does not, however, clarify if different width rear wheels are required.
Thoughts?
Matter is of some urgency as I drove through snow on Monarch pass Friday!

vdubpower

1010tires.com
Has a good calculator that may help

vkudenko444

Hi, i have just come across the same issue. As we found (with a manager at the dealer) there are two options: either to use 255 all around (notwithstanding the weider rear rims (9.5" vs 9") or to keep 255/285 summer size. For the last 2 winters i have been driving BMW 550xi with 245/275 winter tires Pirelli PSottoZero. Everything was fine when the roads are clean from snow and ice, or if the snow is wet. However if it is icy or snowy, one should take care. Hence i opt for PA4 in summer size.

335X-ray

I don't know how wheels of different width would change the diameter of a tire...the wheel has a set diameter of 19" so whatever tire you put on that wheel will have that diameter plus the side wall width. Since you are putting the same size tire all the way around, the only difference will be how the tire sits on the wheel...more poke or tuck in relationship of the tire to the wheel outer rim. I have this exact situation on two BMW X5s. I have 275/35 20 winter wheels on non-square wheels set ups. One is a 8.5" front with 9.5" rears and the other uses the same exact tires but 9" fronts and 10" rear wheels. The 275 tire on the 10" rear does look a bit small but both trucks have run great for 3 winters without missing a beat.

I am following the manuals recommendations for 255/35 19" tires all around with staggered 8.5" front wheels and 9.5" rear wheels. I guess we will see how that goes.

X

ace10

This is the best tire/wheel calculator I've seen.

http://www.rimsntires.com/specs.jsp

ace10

If one were shopping a square setup of true winter tires at 255/35-19, I'd go with Nokian Hakka R2, ten times out of ten. Not cheap at ~$350/per, but the Finns know their winter traction.

There is very little real world feedback on the Pirelli Soto's.

otakki

That is quite a neat calculator. Subscribed.

mburnstein

• maybe this would work with knock off rims for winter use??
• Special Offer:
• Buy a set of four and get a $50 Tire Rack Prepaid MasterCard by mail
• Front: 255/35R19
  240, Mercedes
  Sidewall Style: Blackwall
  Serv. Desc: 96VLoad Index 96 = 1565lbs (710kg) per tire
  Speed Rating "V" = 149mph (240kph)
  Load Range: XLMax Load = 1,565 lbs
  Max psi = 50 psi
  
  UTQG: Not required for
  this tire.None
• Price: $281.00 (each)
  Estimated Availability: In Stock
  Estimated Arrival: Get EstimatePending
• Qty:
  012345678
• Optional Road Hazard Program: Add $24.77 per tire
• Rear: 285/30R19
  240
  Sidewall Style: Blackwall
  Serv. Desc: 98VLoad Index 98 = 1653lbs (750kg) per tire
  Speed Rating "V" = 149mph (240kph)
  Load Range: XLMax Load = 1,653 lbs
  Max psi = 50 psi
  
  UTQG: Not required for
  this tire.None
• Price: $376.00 (each)
  Estimated Availability: In Stock
  Estimated Arrival: Get EstimatePending
• Qty:
  012345678
• Optional Road Hazard Program: Add $31.42 per tire

ace10

For me, I'm now leaning away from doing a full winter setup. We already run one of the daily driven vehicles on full winters, and another has some four seasons Michelins. I think I want to go with more of a 3 season tire on the E63. It will afford some flexibility on the timing of when to swap setups, and then when we have those occasional really warm winter days here in Virginia, we won't have two cars out of commission.

If I lived further North, then I'd still be sweating the decision on true snows. The Pirellis are an easy fit versus going square with the Hakka R2's

But for now the decision is between going with the known-to-be-good Conti ExtremeContact DWS and the new-to-market Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3. The reports of soft sidewall on the Contis is a bit of a concern. I live on a gravel road and replacing a damaged winter tire can be a real bugger... especially late in the season. But I have a very healthy fear of the unknown and the Michelins are complete unknowns.



One other note: remember that when we seek advice from a retailer of tires, we don't necessarily get the full picture. They can only speak to what they offer. And some will sling only that which has the best margin. Do your research. There are a lot of tire options out there.

ace10

For me, the visual representation helps a bunch.

drjimrd

I used this to check any overall diameter differences -
http://www.rimsntires.com/specs.jsp.
Shows 661 mm diameter for both the 8.5 and 9.5 width wheel. Not sure this is entirely accurate as it seems the sidewall will have to be slightly shorter on the wider wheel.
On the other hand, maybe the 8.5 just has a sllight bulge that does not exist on the 9.5 making the height of the sidewall the same. Seems like the overall diameter would be fixed by the main tread surface of the tire.
Jim

kart125

Agree with the Hakka R2. I have Hakka 7 studded tires right now and they are awesome... R2's are the best studless tire available in 2013. Other option at same price is Vredestein WinTrac Extreme but is an "older" tire. They are coming up with Wintrac Extreme Plus for 2013 but not in North America.

My "ultimate" choice would have been Hakka 8 studed but not available this winter in Canada... bummer!

TheOtherEric

Your tires guys are full of crap. For whatever reason, they just don't want to deal with the PA4 tires; maybe the profit margins are higher with other tires or something. For gods sake, the freaking owners manual says to put 255s all around, obviously on factory wheels. And besides, 255 on 9.5" wheel is totally normal.

The main catch here is to use XL load rated tires. The PA4 is XL so you're fine.

Chocofishez

It says square setup? Interesting.

Is the PA4 not available in 285/19?

I was hoping to run 'summer' oem sizing in this tire this year.

To the poster above contemplating all seasons... I ran these last year on my C63. You just need to pick your spots. My hang up is the temperature rating... If it gets cold -really cold- you're sol even with AWD. If the PA4s aren't available in a size wider than 255 then I might do this again though.

335X-ray

What he said about your tire guy...

No, PA4s not available in that size...why not just do the square 255s? The minimal dry performance gain going from winter 255s to all-season (affectionately referred to as no-season) tires even with the wider rear at 285 are not worth it in my opinion if you get any sort of significant winter weather. Better to have the best tires for the summer/spring and fall and the best tires for winter rather than marginal performance tires in all weather. Just my take on it driving around with my wife and son in the car...

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TheOtherEric

Just to be clear, the manual says either 255s all around or 255F/285R (factory sizes).

I went with the Pirelli Sotozero in 255/285 after hearing some good comments about it.

drjimrd

I called Michelin technical support this morning and they say the PA4's on 9.5 wheels are absolutely ok. There min/max manufacturerer's recommendations are 8.5-10" for width on the 255/35/19, so 9.5 is not even the max width. They also confirmed that there would be essentially identical rolling diameters front to rear. So, I am going with PA4's.
Jim

ace10

Most tire manufacturers publish comprehensive data tables for their products. For some applications, this is very important when shopping for tires. Information such as weight per tire for a very lightweight car, exact rolling diameter when comparing tires(not all tires of a given size have the same diameter or even width), or even starting tread depth.

Michelin Pilot Alpin PA4

http://www.michelinman.com/tire-sele...ails#techspecs

Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3
http://www.michelinman.com/tire-sele...ails#techspecs

Continental ExtremeContact DWS
http://www.continentaltire.com/www/d...tasheet_en.pdf


Etc.

drjimrd

ace10 - exactly - looked at that table for the PA4's and called to confirm with Michelin's technical department. Also of interest, the front wheels on the 2014 are 9", not 8.5" as I had believed - at least that is what the owner's manual says. So there is only 1/2" difference front to rear.
Jim

TheOtherEric

Yes, this is why you need a new tire shop. Your guys are liars or entirely incompetent. Anyone with the vaguest understanding of tires would know that that a 255 on a 9.5" wheel is just absolutely perfectly typical and that there's no significant diameter difference from a slightly wider wheel. (and besides, they have ZERO reason to believe that a slight diameter difference would even matter!).

kart125

Totally agree. An A/S tire is a compromise all year long. In Québec they made winter tires mandatory from december 15th to march 15th. It was the best move the government made in a long time... should even be november 15th!

I'm driving on winter tires since 1998 when I bought my first car. My parents kept putting A/S until 2008 and they got stuck quite often, sometimes they did not want to go out because of risk of snow...

If you think you need winter tires, put winter tires on, not A/S. You wont regret it.

Chocofishez

I think on dry winter roads / warmer fall and spring weather 255s will get chewed up in the back.

So who makes winter tires in 285/19s?

Tire Rack shows Michelin makes the PA3 in 285/40/19.

Blizzaks are available in 275s

PA4s are available in 265/40/19..

Any other options? Not crazy about pirelli for winter tires.

kart125

I checked with dealer last week and he showed me the recommended tires on the parts/service documents. If I remember they had 4 choices in the 255/285 setup, they didnt mention square setup 255/255:
Dunlop WinterSport 3D
Michelin Alpin PA3?
Pirrelli SZ
Blizzacks if I remember...

I just sent an email to my salesguy and he will send me the official documents.

Chocofishez

Thanks... looks like you have a hardworking sales guy!

Does anyone have any experience with the PA3?

335X-ray

Per Luke @ tirerack and from several european reviews, the PA4 is a much better tire than the PA3...Also when they are gone, you can't get a replacement for a PA3 if you get a flat or have issues.

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