Can someone explain the e63S losing in roll races to rwd E63's? Vids inside
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CLS63 AMG
If that would of been an apples to apples comparison with it being highest factory power RWD Pp vs same for AWD E63-S I bet the RWD would not of pulled it on the top end.
The question still remains, from a rolling start does the AWD e63 keep up with equally tuned RWD e63 as the trap speeds do seem to indicate? If so, it would make sense to say that the AWD e63 responds better to tuning than RWD.
Another idea, maybe the TCU torque limitation that MB has built into these is more intrusive on RWD vs the AWD TCU programming. One reason why this might of been done is to help RWD have better traction, but with the AWD traction is much less of an issue so maybe they are not restricting as much torque on it through the TCU as they are on the RWD models.
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From: miami / delray beach
2014 E63s amg 4matic, 2009 C63, 2006 E55 AMG , 2001.5 AUDI S4 stg 3+ w/meth
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2014 E63S; AMS 100 octane ECU dyno tune; EDOK TCU tune; BB intakes; sprintbooster
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E63 AMG 557hp RWD vs. E63 AMG 557hp 4matic - ROLL RACE - YouTube
not the same year but same engine and specs apparently
not the same year but same engine and specs apparently
However on that 2013 being referenced above beating everything (Efrench I believe), the thing to note.... Renntech will no longer offer that tune so you can forget about and E63, RWD or 4WD to match him. You can also see his trap speed on dragtimes at 130mph.
Renntech detuned their own tunes and never looked back (I begged, pleaded, and offered bribes for the old tune and couldn't get it lol). I do not even know if Renntech does any form of customization on their tunes like AMS does either.
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From: miami / delray beach
2014 E63s amg 4matic, 2009 C63, 2006 E55 AMG , 2001.5 AUDI S4 stg 3+ w/meth
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2014 E63s amg 4matic, 2009 C63, 2006 E55 AMG , 2001.5 AUDI S4 stg 3+ w/meth
RWD really caught up and pulled on those runs. Seems mod for mod the RWD will outdo the 4WD.
However on that 2013 being referenced above beating everything (Efrench I believe), the thing to note.... Renntech will no longer offer that tune so you can forget about and E63, RWD or 4WD to match him. You can also see his trap speed on dragtimes at 130mph.
Renntech detuned their own tunes and never looked back (I begged, pleaded, and offered bribes for the old tune and couldn't get it lol). I do not even know if Renntech does any form of customization on their tunes like AMS does either.
However on that 2013 being referenced above beating everything (Efrench I believe), the thing to note.... Renntech will no longer offer that tune so you can forget about and E63, RWD or 4WD to match him. You can also see his trap speed on dragtimes at 130mph.
Renntech detuned their own tunes and never looked back (I begged, pleaded, and offered bribes for the old tune and couldn't get it lol). I do not even know if Renntech does any form of customization on their tunes like AMS does either.
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RWD really caught up and pulled on those runs. Seems mod for mod the RWD will outdo the 4WD.
However on that 2013 being referenced above beating everything (Efrench I believe), the thing to note.... Renntech will no longer offer that tune so you can forget about and E63, RWD or 4WD to match him. You can also see his trap speed on dragtimes at 130mph.
Renntech detuned their own tunes and never looked back (I begged, pleaded, and offered bribes for the old tune and couldn't get it lol). I do not even know if Renntech does any form of customization on their tunes like AMS does either.
However on that 2013 being referenced above beating everything (Efrench I believe), the thing to note.... Renntech will no longer offer that tune so you can forget about and E63, RWD or 4WD to match him. You can also see his trap speed on dragtimes at 130mph.
Renntech detuned their own tunes and never looked back (I begged, pleaded, and offered bribes for the old tune and couldn't get it lol). I do not even know if Renntech does any form of customization on their tunes like AMS does either.
In a nutshell, the RWD only caught up because it was an apples to oranges comparison, PP pkg RWD vs Non s AWD.
Pp vs S and the RWD is likely not catching up
Amg63- , Yesterday 01:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Georgee6086
It looks as if they both start from a dead stop, I don't think that is a roll race
keep in mind that's a RWD PP pkg e63 vs Non s (same as non pp) AWD e63.
If that would of been an apples to apples comparison with it being highest factory power RWD Pp vs same for AWD E63-S I bet the RWD would not of pulled it on the top end.
The question still remains, from a rolling start does the AWD e63 keep up with equally tuned RWD e63 as the trap speeds do seem to indicate? If so, it would make sense to say that the AWD e63 responds better to tuning than RWD.
Another idea, maybe the TCU torque limitation that MB has built into these is more intrusive on RWD vs the AWD TCU programming. One reason why this might of been done is to help RWD have better traction, but with the AWD traction is much less of an issue so maybe they are not restricting as much torque on it through the TCU as they are on the RWD models.
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CLS63 AMG
RWD really caught up and pulled on those runs. Seems mod for mod the RWD will outdo the 4WD.
However on that 2013 being referenced above beating everything (Efrench I believe), the thing to note.... Renntech will no longer offer that tune so you can forget about and E63, RWD or 4WD to match him. You can also see his trap speed on dragtimes at 130mph.
Renntech detuned their own tunes and never looked back (I begged, pleaded, and offered bribes for the old tune and couldn't get it lol). I do not even know if Renntech does any form of customization on their tunes like AMS does either.
However on that 2013 being referenced above beating everything (Efrench I believe), the thing to note.... Renntech will no longer offer that tune so you can forget about and E63, RWD or 4WD to match him. You can also see his trap speed on dragtimes at 130mph.
Renntech detuned their own tunes and never looked back (I begged, pleaded, and offered bribes for the old tune and couldn't get it lol). I do not even know if Renntech does any form of customization on their tunes like AMS does either.
what does the average tuned RWD e63 trap nowadays?
It it seems the AWD are trapping just as high with tunes, so mos for mod and tune for tune it's not clear that RWD would pull away or am I missing something here?
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E63
also, why in the world did renntech downgrade their own tunes? We're the cars having problems with them?
what does the average tuned RWD e63 trap nowadays?
It it seems the AWD are trapping just as high with tunes, so mos for mod and tune for tune it's not clear that RWD would pull away or am I missing something here?
what does the average tuned RWD e63 trap nowadays?
It it seems the AWD are trapping just as high with tunes, so mos for mod and tune for tune it's not clear that RWD would pull away or am I missing something here?
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eurocharged told me they have a stage 2 tune available now but not sure if they are running as strong.
Also, how would the AMs tune compare?
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I have a EC stage 1 tune and they told me recently that there stage 2 tune should pick up 50 whp and TQ but I have to change my ignition coils to the awd model coils and need a 2 step colder plug. I wouldn't be surprised if this is simular to the original RT tune but due to all the misfires all the tunners have dialed it back. Now I assume that all the R and D was originally done on the early model m157 RWD cars and a lot of AWD cars have received these old tunes and those are the guys trapping high. I average 1.8's 60ft with absolutely no spinning on DR's and I'm not trapping anywhere near 130 mph
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I have a EC stage 1 tune and they told me recently that there stage 2 tune should pick up 50 whp and TQ but I have to change my ignition coils to the awd model coils and need a 2 step colder plug. I wouldn't be surprised if this is simular to the original RT tune but due to all the misfires all the tunners have dialed it back. Now I assume that all the R and D was originally done on the early model m157 RWD cars and a lot of AWD cars have received these old tunes and those are the guys trapping high. I average 1.8's 60ft with absolutely no spinning on DR's and I'm not trapping anywhere near 130 mph
Pretty crazy. I wonder if the 4matic drivetrain can handle it over long term usage.
And with this tune it's likely the AWD e63 will trap higher than most of the tuned RWD e63 out there, but a RWD e63 with the same stage 2 EC tune is probably going to trap similar or slightly higher than AWD.
The thing is, I was also told the AWD e63 for whatever reason responds a little better to tunes than the RWD so it may make a little more power with it.
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thats great news. I have Eurocharged local to me and an AWD e63 and they also told me the car will need new coils and plugs to run the more aggressive tune. They said it should run very strong with this tune, something like 630whp/770wtq with the tune and air filters only.
Pretty crazy. I wonder if the 4matic drivetrain can handle it over long term usage.
And with this tune it's likely the AWD e63 will trap higher than most of the tuned RWD e63 out there, but a RWD e63 with the same stage 2 EC tune is probably going to trap similar or slightly higher than AWD.
The thing is, I was also told the AWD e63 for whatever reason responds a little better to tunes than the RWD so it may make a little more power with it.
Pretty crazy. I wonder if the 4matic drivetrain can handle it over long term usage.
And with this tune it's likely the AWD e63 will trap higher than most of the tuned RWD e63 out there, but a RWD e63 with the same stage 2 EC tune is probably going to trap similar or slightly higher than AWD.
The thing is, I was also told the AWD e63 for whatever reason responds a little better to tunes than the RWD so it may make a little more power with it.
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Very interesting. Buddy of mine has an EC tune on his wagon and has enjoyed it. I'm assuming those are awhp numbers since you have an AWD car. Either way, nice numbers for sure. I'd be game to give their stage 2 tune a shot. I do have catless downpipes as well, which I'm sure EC can tune for, or already has. Working through some cooling issues at the moment, but will be looking for more reliable power soon.
Are you you running any tune right now, and which one? Are you AWD or RWD? What's your power at?
I think e63s comes stock with upgraded cooling system so maybe check into those part numbers for your setup.
Also what's the difference in power from catted downpipes to catless downpipes over stock?
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nice, yea I'm sure EC can tune for catless downpipes without an issue
Are you you running any tune right now, and which one? Are you AWD or RWD? What's your power at?
I think e63s comes stock with upgraded cooling system so maybe check into those part numbers for your setup.
Also what's the difference in power from catted downpipes to catless downpipes over stock?
Are you you running any tune right now, and which one? Are you AWD or RWD? What's your power at?
I think e63s comes stock with upgraded cooling system so maybe check into those part numbers for your setup.
Also what's the difference in power from catted downpipes to catless downpipes over stock?
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Rotating mass which is fixed is factored into work/torque output which can vary with rpm. Meaning the penalty for extra rotating mass compared to a rwd is more at lower torque levels then at higher torque levels. Assuming all E63's make the same torque after tunes then unless traction is actually needed its just wasted mass and lowers torque/work that can be applied to the wheel. At some staggering high torque levels the extra mass may not make a noticeable difference or always be needed to get torque fully applied to the ground but that is a Bugatti situation.
But again, this seems to not be the case as for some reason from the dynos it seems that the AWD e63 responds better to tunes and makes a bit mor power on them than the RWD counterparts.
This is also evident from trap speeds which are on average 126-129mph for both AWD/RWD running tune only on pump gas of 93+ oct.
looks to to me like amg wanted to give the traction benefit of AWD without it needing to come at the cost of losing power on the top end, so they somehow managed to do that.
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Non P30 rwd bhp = 518
P30 rwd BHP = 550
Non S AWD BHP = 550
S AWD BHP = 577
So a P30 RWD equals the non S model AWD
Its like MB increased power output on the AWD models to ensure that it runs the same as the rwD models (speculation)
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what I was saying was there are 2 versions of RWD e63 one pp and non pp both respectively at 518/550
for AWD its non pp and pp are now changed to 550/577.
So so the new output replaces the old power output to compensate for the added drivetrain loss and weight.
To to compare them the way they should be would be to compare the PP/S model because the S model is like the PP model for the AWD version.
So in other words a roll race between e63PP with 550hp will most likely be even with the S model at 577, and unlike in the video above, the RWD would never of caught up to the replacement model of that very car.
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From a high speed roll, yea the RWD should be faster but it looks like tuned e63s and tuned RWD e63 are both trapping around the same at 126-129.
So either AWD must be responding better to tunes (similar to how AWD also puts out more power from factory) or it's got much less drivetrain losses than we think it has.
Im not sure, and that's why we started this thread, to try and get some answers.
Last edited by Amg63-; Oct 8, 2016 at 09:01 PM.
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thats not what I was saying at all. I wasnt comparing the hp from AWD to RWD in that way
what I was saying was there are 2 versions of RWD e63 one pp and non pp both respectively at 518/550
for AWD its non pp and pp are now changed to 550/577.
So so the new output replaces the old power output to compensate for the added drivetrain loss and weight.
To to compare them the way they should be would be to compare the PP/S model because the S model is like the PP model for the AWD version.
So in other words a roll race between e63PP with 550hp will most likely be even with the S model at 577, and unlike in the video above, the RWD would never of caught up to the replacement model of that very car.
what I was saying was there are 2 versions of RWD e63 one pp and non pp both respectively at 518/550
for AWD its non pp and pp are now changed to 550/577.
So so the new output replaces the old power output to compensate for the added drivetrain loss and weight.
To to compare them the way they should be would be to compare the PP/S model because the S model is like the PP model for the AWD version.
So in other words a roll race between e63PP with 550hp will most likely be even with the S model at 577, and unlike in the video above, the RWD would never of caught up to the replacement model of that very car.
Apples to apples will be same HP different drive trains (rwd vs awd)
