Can someone explain the e63S losing in roll races to rwd E63's? Vids inside
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Can someone explain the e63S losing in roll races to rwd E63's? Vids inside
A friend of mine and I have been having a discussion:
(Amg63-)
in both these videos against 2 different awd e63 they both lost.
it seems from time slips that tune for tune both the e63awd and e63rwd are trapping about the same at 126-129 mph for both, so in general WHY do roll racing show much of a difference?
also
https://mbworld.org/forums/w212-amg/...s-video-2.html
where the AWD e63 lost to a stock SLS63
And here the rwd e63 keeps up with sls63 BS that also has tune and long tube headers
the difference in rolling speeds are immense and just don't make sense even with an extra 5% power loss for AWD it stil looks like too much of a difference
(Amg63-)
in both these videos against 2 different awd e63 they both lost.
it seems from time slips that tune for tune both the e63awd and e63rwd are trapping about the same at 126-129 mph for both, so in general WHY do roll racing show much of a difference?
also
https://mbworld.org/forums/w212-amg/...s-video-2.html
where the AWD e63 lost to a stock SLS63
And here the rwd e63 keeps up with sls63 BS that also has tune and long tube headers
the difference in rolling speeds are immense and just don't make sense even with an extra 5% power loss for AWD it stil looks like too much of a difference
Last edited by PeterUbers; Sep 27, 2016 at 04:26 PM.
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one more thing that came to mind, is that the 4matic system we have is a fixed torque split of 33 front and 67 rear.
So maybe also ask them if this system is possibly hurting it from a roll start?
ferrari AWD changes it on the fly and at MOST only
puts 20% of power up to the front.
So so maybe this fixed torque split is what's hurting the car the most uptop, maybe amg should update to a better AWD?
or maybe I'm wrong and this torque split helps it better from a roll, I really not sure but I guess it would be good to ask so we can get all the factors in to narrow it down to the final reason.
So maybe also ask them if this system is possibly hurting it from a roll start?
ferrari AWD changes it on the fly and at MOST only
puts 20% of power up to the front.
So so maybe this fixed torque split is what's hurting the car the most uptop, maybe amg should update to a better AWD?
or maybe I'm wrong and this torque split helps it better from a roll, I really not sure but I guess it would be good to ask so we can get all the factors in to narrow it down to the final reason.
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2014 E63s amg 4matic, 2009 C63, 2006 E55 AMG , 2001.5 AUDI S4 stg 3+ w/meth
i guess the RWD is hurting the BMS tuned F10 M5 shop car? It puts out same WHP as E.French's RWD E63 yet still gets destroyed by the heavier E63.... E.French's vids are much like Gustav's vids from GTboard... his car never loses 
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somehow he also manages to beat a RWD Mclaren 650s which weighs about 1500 lbs less with the same HP (these cars run 10.3 1/4 @137 so faster than the fastest tuned e63 by a lot).... so either he has a turbo kit that he's not telling anyone or something else is up as the numbers/results dont compute
Last edited by gaspam; Sep 27, 2016 at 06:35 PM.
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somehow he also manages to beat a RWD Mclaren 650s which weighs about 1500 lbs less with the same HP (these cars run 10.3 1/4 @137 so faster than the fastest tuned e63 by a lot).... so either he has a turbo kit that he's not telling anyone or something else is up as the numbers/results dont compute
2013 E63 Biturbo (Renntech tune, downpipes) vs 2015 McLaren - YouTube
2013 E63 Biturbo (Renntech tune, downpipes) vs 2015 McLaren - YouTube
putting this point aside do you think that from a roll with everything being equal, same tune on both cars that the AWD e63 can keep up with the RWD e63 despite the RWD e63 losing less power through the drivetrain as speeds increase?
also, this AWD system Mercedes uses with the 33/67 permanent torque split, wouldn't all that power to the front also hurt the rolling speed? That's a lot of wasted power seeing that at those speeds the front grip is not needed like it is from a stop or a low speed 1st gear rolling start.
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CLS63 AMG
i guess the RWD is hurting the BMS tuned F10 M5 shop car? It puts out same WHP as E.French's RWD E63 yet still gets destroyed by the heavier E63.... E.French's vids are much like Gustav's vids from GTboard... his car never loses
NFZ 4 - 2013 E63 AMG vs 2014 BMW M5 BMS Shop Car - YouTube
NFZ 4 - 2013 E63 AMG vs 2014 BMW M5 BMS Shop Car - YouTube
someone correct me if I'm wrong
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maybe your right and he has upgraded turbos and is not telling us.
putting this point aside do you think that from a roll with everything being equal, same tune on both cars that the AWD e63 can keep up with the RWD e63 despite the RWD e63 losing less power through the drivetrain as speeds increase?
also, this AWD system Mercedes uses with the 33/67 permanent torque split, wouldn't all that power to the front also hurt the rolling speed? That's a lot of wasted power seeing that at those speeds the front grip is not needed like it is from a stop or a low speed 1st gear rolling start.
putting this point aside do you think that from a roll with everything being equal, same tune on both cars that the AWD e63 can keep up with the RWD e63 despite the RWD e63 losing less power through the drivetrain as speeds increase?
also, this AWD system Mercedes uses with the 33/67 permanent torque split, wouldn't all that power to the front also hurt the rolling speed? That's a lot of wasted power seeing that at those speeds the front grip is not needed like it is from a stop or a low speed 1st gear rolling start.
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I don't know about the AWD system being a huge detriment. The E63S with 4matic seems to dyno higher on every dyno than the pre-'14 RWD models with performance package. Those wheel horsepower figures are post parasitic losses, so the AWD doesn't seem to be hindering the E63S and/or AMG has seriously underrated the power compared to the old performance package. Either way, we may have a small sampling size and comparing tuned to tuned is less than ideal. I would compare stock-to-stock for more definitive results.
Tune for tune between AWD and RWD would be the better question because this way both are pretty much pushing it to the same level. I just wonder how much difference there is in the real world once both have the same software.
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In case anyone is interested in the thread where the owner of the RWD posted his vids here it is
https://mbworld.org/forums/w212-amg/532074-2013-e63-1-3-mile-roll-event.html
he also was asked in the thread if the upgraded turbo e63 was running ok and he said it was running fine but he also said there's some sort of torque limitation on AWD e63 that tuners need to work around.
Anyone have any idea what he meant by this?
https://mbworld.org/forums/w212-amg/532074-2013-e63-1-3-mile-roll-event.html
he also was asked in the thread if the upgraded turbo e63 was running ok and he said it was running fine but he also said there's some sort of torque limitation on AWD e63 that tuners need to work around.
Anyone have any idea what he meant by this?
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In case anyone is interested in the thread where the owner of the RWD posted his vids here it is
https://mbworld.org/forums/w212-amg/532074-2013-e63-1-3-mile-roll-event.html
he also was asked in the thread if the upgraded turbo e63 was running ok and he said it was running fine but he also said there's some sort of torque limitation on AWD e63 that tuners need to work around.
Anyone have any idea what he meant by this?
https://mbworld.org/forums/w212-amg/532074-2013-e63-1-3-mile-roll-event.html
he also was asked in the thread if the upgraded turbo e63 was running ok and he said it was running fine but he also said there's some sort of torque limitation on AWD e63 that tuners need to work around.
Anyone have any idea what he meant by this?
https://mbworld.org/forums/w212-amg/...ver-stock.html
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Rotating mass which is fixed is factored into work/torque output which can vary with rpm. Meaning the penalty for extra rotating mass compared to a rwd is more at lower torque levels then at higher torque levels. Assuming all E63's make the same torque after tunes then unless traction is actually needed its just wasted mass and lowers torque/work that can be applied to the wheel. At some staggering high torque levels the extra mass may not make a noticeable difference or always be needed to get torque fully applied to the ground but that is a Bugatti situation.
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What about comparing trap speeds of the average tuned only e63 RWD vs tuned only e63 AWD?
if they are both the same then shouldn't they be about equal from a roll when both are tune only vs tune only?
unless the RWD e63 on average is trapping higher than an equally modded AWD e63...so that is the queestion here.
if they are both the same then shouldn't they be about equal from a roll when both are tune only vs tune only?
unless the RWD e63 on average is trapping higher than an equally modded AWD e63...so that is the queestion here.
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But this TCU torque limitation being discussed seems to be in reference to all e63s, including the RWD models.
What at am I curious to know is if it's true or not true that for whatever reason it may be, the 2014+AWD e63s respond better and make more power with ECU tunes compared to the power output of 12-13 RWD e63 with the same tunes on them.
If so, that extra power should be able to compensate the extra drivetrain losses of the AWD models which should allow them to trap just as high and keep up with tuned RWD from a roll despite the additional power losses and weight associated with AWD 4matic system of 33/67 trq split that MB chose to go with on these cars.
Last edited by Amg63-; Sep 29, 2016 at 12:46 AM.
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E63 AMG 557hp RWD vs. E63 AMG 557hp 4matic - ROLL RACE - YouTube
not the same year but same engine and specs apparently
not the same year but same engine and specs apparently
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2014 E63s amg 4matic, 2009 C63, 2006 E55 AMG , 2001.5 AUDI S4 stg 3+ w/meth
after seeing this , can someone explain to me why RC cars are so much faster than 1000whp cars? should i sell my car and get a RC car instead? or is it just because the RC car is a ferrari model?
or is it just because the RC car is a ferrari model?
Thread Starter
Out Of Control!!
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2014 E63S; AMS 100 octane ECU dyno tune; EDOK TCU tune; BB intakes; sprintbooster
after seeing this , can someone explain to me why RC cars are so much faster than 1000whp cars? should i sell my car and get a RC car instead? or is it just because the RC car is a ferrari model?
Twin Turbo Corvette vs RC Car - YouTube
or is it just because the RC car is a ferrari model? Twin Turbo Corvette vs RC Car - YouTube
