I THANK WE HAVE A PROBLEM
#26
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2014 E63s amg 4matic, 2009 C63, 2006 E55 AMG , 2001.5 AUDI S4 stg 3+ w/meth
lol 250, sure that is fine if you are running a race car on the track that you change the oil after every race, but not for normal driving on a car that you change the oil every 10K...
The general rule of thumb is that for every 20F increase in oil temps, the rate of oxidation doubles. A typical engine may run oil temps in the 210F range, so if you are running consistent 250F temps, the oil is going to be oxidizing about four times as fast.
Not to mention at 250f you would be very close to the point to where our ecu's go into limp mode.... go over to the c63 forum and see how many guys had their cars go into limp mode due to oil getting too hot (above 260)
mobil 1 0w-40 hths ratings of 300f is under very short burst and not a sustained temperature. Considering that synth oils start to flash off at 230+/- deg f they are starting to break down. There is a very fine line between the oil being ok and when it starts to deteriorate
bottom line, M157 has been out since 2012 and no one has lost an engine yet due to thermostats not getting oil temp up quick enough.
/thread
The general rule of thumb is that for every 20F increase in oil temps, the rate of oxidation doubles. A typical engine may run oil temps in the 210F range, so if you are running consistent 250F temps, the oil is going to be oxidizing about four times as fast.
Not to mention at 250f you would be very close to the point to where our ecu's go into limp mode.... go over to the c63 forum and see how many guys had their cars go into limp mode due to oil getting too hot (above 260)
mobil 1 0w-40 hths ratings of 300f is under very short burst and not a sustained temperature. Considering that synth oils start to flash off at 230+/- deg f they are starting to break down. There is a very fine line between the oil being ok and when it starts to deteriorate
bottom line, M157 has been out since 2012 and no one has lost an engine yet due to thermostats not getting oil temp up quick enough.
/thread
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Mike450 (12-14-2016)
#27
Out Of Control!!
Join Date: Jun 2004
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2014 E63S; AMS 100 octane ecu tune; edok tcu tune; BB intakes; dyno tuned
lol 250, sure that is fine if you are running a race car on the track that you change the oil after every race, but not for normal driving on a car that you change the oil every 10K...
The general rule of thumb is that for every 20F increase in oil temps, the rate of oxidation doubles. A typical engine may run oil temps in the 210F range, so if you are running consistent 250F temps, the oil is going to be oxidizing about four times as fast.
Not to mention at 250f you would be very close to the point to where our ecu's go into limp mode.... go over to the c63 forum and see how many guys had their cars go into limp mode due to oil getting too hot (above 260)
mobil 1 0w-40 hths ratings of 300f is under very short burst and not a sustained temperature. Considering that synth oils start to flash off at 230+/- deg f they are starting to break down. There is a very fine line between the oil being ok and when it starts to deteriorate
bottom line, M157 has been out since 2012 and no one has lost an engine yet due to thermostats not getting oil temp up quick enough.
/thread![Smilie](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
The general rule of thumb is that for every 20F increase in oil temps, the rate of oxidation doubles. A typical engine may run oil temps in the 210F range, so if you are running consistent 250F temps, the oil is going to be oxidizing about four times as fast.
Not to mention at 250f you would be very close to the point to where our ecu's go into limp mode.... go over to the c63 forum and see how many guys had their cars go into limp mode due to oil getting too hot (above 260)
mobil 1 0w-40 hths ratings of 300f is under very short burst and not a sustained temperature. Considering that synth oils start to flash off at 230+/- deg f they are starting to break down. There is a very fine line between the oil being ok and when it starts to deteriorate
bottom line, M157 has been out since 2012 and no one has lost an engine yet due to thermostats not getting oil temp up quick enough.
/thread
![Smilie](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
#28
Super Member
Hello the deal with cold oil is that it does not lubricate probably Intel it's warmed up/Pistons are cool by oil so they don't let the Pistons get hot enough/expand to the right dimension, the faster you can heat oil the better for the engine/most racecars oils are preheated to aid in less wear upon start up E missions are higher any cold engine, it's harder to turn the motor over with cold oil/worse gas mileage, this is just the tip the ice on cold oil I do have to admit I'm a little ADA HDA and every other kind of hay when I drive my car and see the oil temperature oil is cold makes me cringe, I raced cars professionally for years if I ever had oil that cold I would not run the motor, 250° is what I like , talk to one of my engine builders today he won't put a load on a motor on the Dino until at least 160° oil temp
A 0 or 5 viscosity oil is designed to flow and protect at low engine temps. If there was truly an issue, it should be an easy case to make with the amount of AMG M157 running the world.
Last edited by Mike450; 12-13-2016 at 08:39 PM.
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gaspam (12-14-2016)
#29
I just don't understand why everyone thinks this is a 'problem'. The oil in my 2015 E63S will easily take 15-20 minutes of easy driving to heat to 'white'. I just take it easy during this time.
#30
MBWorld Fanatic!
I've never had a car that took that long to heat up the oil so it seems weird to me. One thing for certain, I'd go crazy if I couldn't get on the throttle for 20-30 minutes every time I got in my car!
#31
MBWorld Fanatic!
Lol I agree 30 minutes warmup time is nothing short of ridiculous.
Last edited by Amg63-; 12-13-2016 at 11:52 PM.
#32
MBWorld Fanatic!
+1
Seriously how is this an issue?
Did the car warn you, is it written its bad, are they any cars/cases of people suffering issues (other than mental
)
if not then where is the case exactly?
fun read though![Smilie](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
Seriously how is this an issue?
Did the car warn you, is it written its bad, are they any cars/cases of people suffering issues (other than mental
![Stick Out Tongue](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/tongue.gif)
if not then where is the case exactly?
fun read though
![Smilie](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
lol 250, sure that is fine if you are running a race car on the track that you change the oil after every race, but not for normal driving on a car that you change the oil every 10K...
The general rule of thumb is that for every 20F increase in oil temps, the rate of oxidation doubles. A typical engine may run oil temps in the 210F range, so if you are running consistent 250F temps, the oil is going to be oxidizing about four times as fast.
Not to mention at 250f you would be very close to the point to where our ecu's go into limp mode.... go over to the c63 forum and see how many guys had their cars go into limp mode due to oil getting too hot (above 260)
mobil 1 0w-40 hths ratings of 300f is under very short burst and not a sustained temperature. Considering that synth oils start to flash off at 230+/- deg f they are starting to break down. There is a very fine line between the oil being ok and when it starts to deteriorate
bottom line, M157 has been out since 2012 and no one has lost an engine yet due to thermostats not getting oil temp up quick enough.
/thread![Smilie](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
The general rule of thumb is that for every 20F increase in oil temps, the rate of oxidation doubles. A typical engine may run oil temps in the 210F range, so if you are running consistent 250F temps, the oil is going to be oxidizing about four times as fast.
Not to mention at 250f you would be very close to the point to where our ecu's go into limp mode.... go over to the c63 forum and see how many guys had their cars go into limp mode due to oil getting too hot (above 260)
mobil 1 0w-40 hths ratings of 300f is under very short burst and not a sustained temperature. Considering that synth oils start to flash off at 230+/- deg f they are starting to break down. There is a very fine line between the oil being ok and when it starts to deteriorate
bottom line, M157 has been out since 2012 and no one has lost an engine yet due to thermostats not getting oil temp up quick enough.
/thread
![Smilie](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
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gaspam (12-14-2016)
#34
I watched my oil temp closely this morning. My pre-facelift took exactly 10 minutes to reach 176 degF (when the lighted temp indicator stops blinking). Outside temp was 59 degF. And I was driving through the city with some stop-and-go traffic. It took another 10 minutes to reach full "normal" operating temp of 215 degF. (I call it "normal" as it seems my car sits at this temp when driving around the city streets). Not quite the "5 minutes" from the reports you're hearing about. But maybe those reports are under different ambient conditions and driving methods.
The question is why are only the facelift models taking long to heat up?
it sounds like it's "normal" operation for a 14+ to take a long time to warm up, but we have reports saying pre facelift only took 5 minutes to heat up.
Something must of been changed for a reason here
it sounds like it's "normal" operation for a 14+ to take a long time to warm up, but we have reports saying pre facelift only took 5 minutes to heat up.
Something must of been changed for a reason here
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Amg63- (12-14-2016)
#35
Super Member
Car manufacturer have been know to orienate gauge output to consumers on a need-to-know type basis info. That could very well be the case here.
I remember reading a bunch of years back that proper coolant temp on many gauges was moved to 12 o'clock, regardless of temp calibration on gauge face, because consumers would call for service thinking beyond half way was not "right". Gauges will also move way beyond face label calibration when things are not within spec.
If you notice, most OEM operating temps are dead center on gauge face. That's not by coincidence.
Last edited by Mike450; 12-14-2016 at 12:47 PM.
#36
Senior Member
It DRIVES me crazy.....I buy a great car for commuting and I can't drive it hard for 1/2 of my commute. I have never had a car that take this long to "warm up"
I would think that you would want to bring all the systems up (and maintain) to operating temperature ASAP.
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Amg63- (12-14-2016)
#37
MBWorld Fanatic!
Let us also keep in mind, this is a consumer gauge reading, not a thermocouple calibrated temp reading. You can't base an argument such as this based solely on a blue or white gauge reading. You need specific data.
Car manufacturer have been know to orienate gauge output to consumers on a need-to-know type basis info. That could very well be the case here.
I remember reading a bunch of years back that proper coolant temp on many gauges was moved to 12 o'clock, regardless of temp calibration on gauge face, because consumers would call for service thinking beyond half way was not "right". Gauges will also move way beyond face label calibration when things are not within spec.
If you notice, most OEM operating temps are dead center on gauge face. That's not by coincidence.
Car manufacturer have been know to orienate gauge output to consumers on a need-to-know type basis info. That could very well be the case here.
I remember reading a bunch of years back that proper coolant temp on many gauges was moved to 12 o'clock, regardless of temp calibration on gauge face, because consumers would call for service thinking beyond half way was not "right". Gauges will also move way beyond face label calibration when things are not within spec.
If you notice, most OEM operating temps are dead center on gauge face. That's not by coincidence.
I also understand that this may not be or cause an actual problem, but it would be annoying as hell if I had to deal with a car that I couldn't flog for the first 30 minutes of every drive!!!
Last edited by chiromikey; 12-14-2016 at 01:21 PM.
#38
Drive it like you want, then do an oil analysis at the end of the OCI to see if the engine is wearing as bad as you think. A better data set would be to perform oil analysis after multiple oil changes. Track the trends...then you can tell if anything is happening to your engine. Until then, it's all speculation.
#39
MBWorld Fanatic!
I watched my oil temp closely this morning. My pre-facelift took exactly 10 minutes to reach 176 degF (when the lighted temp indicator stops blinking). Outside temp was 59 degF. And I was driving through the city with some stop-and-go traffic. It took another 10 minutes to reach full "normal" operating temp of 215 degF. (I call it "normal" as it seems my car sits at this temp when driving around the city streets). Not quite the "5 minutes" from the reports you're hearing about. But maybe those reports are under different ambient conditions and driving methods.
People are saying that the m156 E63 like yours does warm up a lot quicker than 14+ m157.
It would make sense that the turbo should be heating it up faster than NA but its not.
Someone did mention that 14+ has additional oil cooling added to it from factory that the pre facelift biturbo 12-13 models didn't have. So maybe that's what it is.
Last edited by Amg63-; 12-14-2016 at 01:38 PM.
#40
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2014 E63s amg 4matic, 2009 C63, 2006 E55 AMG , 2001.5 AUDI S4 stg 3+ w/meth
all you guys must live in a polar vortex as mine heats up in about 5 min to 160f... move to FL, its 85f today
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#41
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#44
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#45
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E63 SL55 996TT C5Z06
i'm in Chicago and today it was 10 Farenheit and damn freezing cold but after taking the car out of my garage (not-heated garage) the oil temp hit 160F in about 15-18 minutes with easy stop and go traffic.
considering coming from deep freezing temps that seems appropriate i assume??
i did read that oil temp must be at 160F to use race start, so that must mean something about potential unnecessary engine wear if driving hard when the oil temp is not at 160F and properly lubricating.
to me with a $100k car, its not a concern to wait 15-20 mins to ensure the oil temp is at the right level per AMG spec before hammering it...heck, when I hit the gym and weight lift it takes me 20 minutes to warm up before i can hit the heavy weight at 45yrs old!!!!!
considering coming from deep freezing temps that seems appropriate i assume??
i did read that oil temp must be at 160F to use race start, so that must mean something about potential unnecessary engine wear if driving hard when the oil temp is not at 160F and properly lubricating.
to me with a $100k car, its not a concern to wait 15-20 mins to ensure the oil temp is at the right level per AMG spec before hammering it...heck, when I hit the gym and weight lift it takes me 20 minutes to warm up before i can hit the heavy weight at 45yrs old!!!!!
#46
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E63 SL55 996TT C5Z06
Gaspam - with you being in miami, what temp at start up does your car show?
today as i started my car in the garage at 8F temperature, it initially showed 50F and then got to 160F at about 15-18 mins as i mentioned in my other post.
when i bought the car in October i recall it got to 160F pretty quick considering the outdoor temps were 60F or more.
#47
Senior Member
I don't think the main concern here is about how we feel about the time it takes to get to normal operating temperature, but the fact that the engine is not getting properly lubricated until the oil gets to a proper temperature. In addition to it lubrication function, oil acts as a thermo-regulator ensuring that all components expand and contract in synchronous way. I had my Cayenne 9ff with 10-12qts of oil and it never took that long, but then different engines... I am sure that AMG somewhat knows what they are doing...
#50