chiromikey

You think the methanol is really supplying extra fuel? I was under the impression that it was mostly cooling and detonation prevention, not extra fuel.

shardul

iTrader: (1)

common failure parts on a meth kit

delivery tubes melts or bearking, clogged nozzles and stuck check valves. you could use solenoids instead of check valves

e65

Methanol can be used for cooling only. You can also use it as an octane boost and tune for higher octane (timing boost) and this way you introduce more risk if there's a failure. You can also use it to supplement a maxed out fuel system. This is I think the most risky way of using it.

there are cars running pure methanol not the water mixture like certain BMW M5.

I cannot say 100% that this is what tuners are starting to do with Mercedes but I strongly suspect it. Meth Cooling alone does not add 100 hp when you already have an ice tank in your trunk.

TMC M5

Nah, I think it is just that both cars appear to be Iridium Silver... it adds about 60 awhp.

KLR CLS

You always have to tune for meth. You have to pull some fuel out of it Or else its just pig rich and doesn't make much more power. Meth can be really safe and no more risky than upgraded fuel system if done right. You get what you pay for. Buy a ****ty eBay kit for $300 and yes you can have failures. Run a high end pump and controller with fail safe alerts, braided lines, with solenoid and billet nozzles.. You are good and reliable. Be prepared to spend at least $800-1000. I can see a proper meth kit with running making an easy 75whp with tuning.

And a new motor doesn't need to cost you 60k euro. You can use a used m278 block, sleeved with custom rods and pistons for around 10-12 k all in. I'm starting to collect parts to build a shory block for next year.

e65

a new motor cost 60k euro. Used parts or repair will be less. In any case it's very undesirable to have to deal with a dead moror.

I have methanol injection in my car that I can turn on and off with a switch. The tune is the same with or without the methanol. If you want to use methanol as a power adder then obviously you're going to be tuning for it.

using methanol as a fuel supplement is a risk and its also putting a big limit on yourself. Imagine you do a couple of runs against another car do you roll down your window and shout that you need to refill your methanol?

KLR CLS

Why would you tune your motor beyond the limits of the stock short block, then replace it with a new OEM one at five times the cost of a built one? Anyone doing turbo upgrades is pushing the limits. 800whp motors are not going to last long with any significant abuse. Ring lands and rods going to start to be problems in the long run. Water/Meth will make combustion cooler (is lower egts) and the fueling over head will also be safer. Done right I don't really see a down side.

Bottom line with the prices coming down on these cars more people are getting into modding them. Multiple companies are offering stage 2 turbos now at reasonable pricing. 800+ who cars are awesome, but We are going to see the limits soon enough.

e65

All I was trying to say and I think we can probably agree on this is that if you need more fuel that should be coming from the fuel tank not from the meth tank.

If the engine fails it's probably not because it can't handle the power in my case it was felt to be a lean condition. My own Motor had 3000 miles on it when it failed so replacing with OEM was something I considered and might have been necessary if the damage had been more extensive. Of course I would look for lightly used or some other option as well.

chiromikey

This is the first I've heard of talk about our fuel system being maxed out at these power levels. I certainly didn't think meth was being used as a fuel supply rather than for cooling and octane booster.

kponti

I think KLR CLS's point is that running meth usually makes the car run richer regardless of how it's tuned. You tune for meth cos you take out fuel slightly to make up for the extra provided by the meth on the air/fuel scale

e65

I understand what he is saying re methanol giving a rich mixture. But I think methanol can be run very rich without losing power.

Methanol stoich is 6.5:1 and you can run 3.5:1 and still make power. If your add almost double the gasoline and run 8:1 your engine probably wouldn't run at all let alone make comparable power to 12.5 or 12:1 mixture. I think you could add a bit of methanol for cooling and run rich as a result without losing power.

If you look at the Gad Motors website stage 5 includes a fuel system upgrade at 900hp mark.

gaspam

they are not tuning for meth (and not running pure meth.. they are running 50/50 water meth)... they are only using it for cooling (did it on my b5 s4 no problem without tuning )... the tuner is on this forum and other forums and already stated that.


if anything they are probably allowing it to run slightly rich at full boost/load to protect the motor..Running rich means there is extra fuel left over that didn't get burned. This fuel absorbs heat. This keeps the engine from being damaged.... obviously you dont want it to run too ruch or you lose power, but small dose of 50/50 meth water is only going to richen it up a small amount....tuning for meth to lean out the afr and advance timing is where you get in trouble if the meth system fails, but as noted earlier, tuner stated they are not doing that

vkudenko444

Guys, common both cars having 800 and 800+awhp and the most powerful even on stock tranny. It is just a joke or advertisment. Waiting for some results from official events like 1/4, better 1/2 or rolling 1 km. Otherwise it is something i will never believe.

10speed

I was just talking to a friend he's an Audi guy , he was telling me there is a controller that tells the computer exactly what fuel mixture you have and it will adjust the power accordingly, Example: if you switch to a tune for E85 and you have 1/4 tank of 93 it's not pure e85 the computer will compensate and adjust the power ( boost) so you can't harm your engine , he wasn't 100% sure exactly how this worked , he was also talking about meth injection failure is what bought up the topic

Geno51

that's a flex fuel set up and we don't have it. We're DI so it won't work

e65

I believe on the outer you can actually switch tune using your indicator knob. On our cars we have to switch the ECU if for example you want to use race gas vs. Pump gas.

my engine was toast at 3k miles after what I was told was a detonation event. So I would not trust your ECU with your motor's life. Audi maybe different.

gaspam

that's exactly why these guys are running meth/water injection... to prevent detonation at high hp/heat/ pressure levels... its added safety measure... you could achieve same insurance by running race gas (without tuning for it) all the time, but meth is much cheaper insurance

raudiace4

Yeah these dyno numbers don't mean anything unless there are 1/4 mile numbers to back it up.

e65

Best insurance is a tune your car can safely run with or without meth. Depending on meth to prevent detonation is not insurance. It's a disaster waiting to happen.

shardul

iTrader: (1)

I think roll racing is where these cars will do well

Launching these cars at the track is hard.

gaspam

most of the tracks up there dont open until mid march/april from winter

the 847 awhp car already did 10.6/133 at 670 awhp so i think with the extra +177 awhp it might do a little better next time it goes to track when they open back up

M-Theory

I asked a while ago but never really got a real answer.

On a RWD E63 how much is "normal" cost to drop the motor to upgrade the turbos?

Ive asked around and keep getting "I don't knows and sighs" as soon as I say Mercedes and motor pull.

Thanks in advance.

Fairbird

I'm charging $1600 ish plus parts but I'm to far

e65

What the going rate is I'm not sure. I paid $5k CAD 4 Turbo swap which included removing and reinstalling the motor liquids and everything. Took him about a week to take it out and a week tocpit back in. GAD took my motor out in 3 hours they probably had more than one person working on it. Probably depends on how many times the guy has done it.

M-Theory

Sounds like I'd save money to drive to you haha.

just to remove motor alone I'm hearing $3000-5000, plus the turbo cost $6000, then tuning..... the quest for power hurts.