notatroll

Problem is not shift point itself. Problem is why the power is lost at the end of gear. Is it caused by turbo? Or gearing? This is why m5 is quicker imo. The transmission gearing perfectly matched with turbo and ecu tuning. With every shift the DCT in m5 hits the perfect spot in power band and holds it all the way to the red line without losing power until the next shift. You are not losing power at the end of the gear unlike in e63.

Amg63-

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Amg63-

yup unlike with the e63 it seems the stock shift points for m5 work fine for both stock and tuned cars. Since turbos are bigger they breath better on top and don't lose power at redline.

E63 shift points are fine on stock tune since power doesn't drop off, but turns into a problem when the small turbos get tuned and can't hold power strong to redline, yet are still "stuck" running on stock shift points.

With that said, e63 still has the torque advantage and depending on how both are tuned and which speeds either one can be quicker it all depends.

Some of the tunes also seem to make more power near redline than others so with some of them stock shift points still work very well and effectively on tuned m157s while for others it's worse.

Luke-BITURBO

Went out last night side by side with my friends 847atf Impreza he isn't using flatshift yet so my shifts where helping me stay there compared to his a lot

I tried shifting just before 6k as expected I went backwards instantly from 3rd gear above.. for my car this doesn't work anyone who needs to shift like a diesel should probably look at there tune

TTMerc

Did a 4th to 5th pull looks like it shifted about 6400. Once it hits 5th it pulls pretty hard. My car isnt tuned so just for reference sake. Can also see the boost drop before it shifts thats most likely why my untuned car feels better shifting early while tuned cars are holding boost all the way to redline. Oh and a little BOV sound at the end since no one ever post sound clips once they install lol

nikon

Is that the renntech BOV? What are the differences after the BOV install? Thanks!

Amg63-

So does the factory shift point shift at 6200 or 6400? Anyone know exactly which rpm it is?

TTMerc

No its a "Merica" BOV setup lol

On my setup there's not any noticeable difference since my boost levels are stock and even lower through the shifts. I'll report back once tuned.

nikon

Interesting. I hear the tune for a car with a BOV should leave the butterfly slightly open since there's no concern with compressor surging. Sorry for going off topic!

Amg63-

Has anyone done some data logging to see what the factory shift points are in each gear in s+?

ajs76

I'll muddy the waters here a little bit. AMG63 - you'll have to chime in also because you're tuned.

So after my EC tune, I think I'm hitting the rev limiter in S+ mode.

In S mode (and S+ prior to tune) - super fast shift, smooth, and linear pulling
In S+ mode After tune - it feels like I'm attempting a 2Fast2Furious power shift or something with the gas floored. The shift is slower and it is ROUGH. At first I thought something was broken but now I'm just kind of convinced that I'm hitting the rev limiter because it doesn't happen with paddles.

Any of you tuned guys run into this? In the good ol stock days, I could just floor it in S+ and it magically ran through the gears smooth as butter. Now it seems like S or Manual is more ideal

Amg63-

In my case the shift is a bit rough, but it's very fast in s+ And it never bounces off the rev limiter. Something sounds way off with yours.

they had to regap the spark plugs becsuse at first it was misfiring at WOT.

Tell them regap plugs to 0.21 and take it from there.

raudiace4

It's not hard, but it won't matter you'll never nail the perfect shift point in all gears in manual mode. Tuned or stock, in S+ the car does much better than anyone can do in manual mode and is much quicker without bogging.

Maybe you can get away with manual upshifts on the N/A E63 bc it's slow anyway.

raudiace4

There might be an issue with your transmission, I have the EC tune also and it never hits off the rev limiter in any gear. Shifts are a bit rougher than stock, but feel faster. Did you have your trans adapted before tuning?

ajs76

About 3 weeks ago I had the transmission adapted at the dealer (the real adaptation, not the unplug your battery one).

It was night and day better after that and now S+ just makes me feel like I'm hurting the car. I feel like it's time for some sweet shaky blair witch cell phone videos to show you guys.

Maybe I'm just not used to the rougher shift - it just doesn't feel as snappy as S.

Amg63-

Did you get the plugs regapped? That's pretty much a requirement to get it to shift properly at least in my case.

ajs76

No one mentioned that this was a requirement for the 2014+ plugs. The car honestly runs great in anything other than S+ when at 6200 rpm.

You had legit misfires happening though right? Did it just feel down on power? What were the symptoms?

Amg63-

very harsh shifting in s+ and a bit down on power I think.

Im not saying to change to different plugs. Use OEM but just get hem regapped to 0.21. Tell them to try it. They can contact EC in Toronto to get some details on the job.

ajs76

If I have 27k on the engine and they have to go through the labor of pulling plugs anyway, should I just put in new plugs with the .21 gapping? With a tune aren't I going to be cashing plugs in like 10k miles anyway?

Amg63-

yea, so might as well upgrade now to a 2 step colder plug

TTMerc

Thats due to the boost increase or just holding the boost longer. Stock ecu drops the boost before the shift (you can see in the vid I posted above). Mine used to do that as well when I had a Manual Boost controller on it which increased and held the boost manually. I think a BOV will help that as long as there is some sort or drop in manifold pressure between shifts. S is a lot smother but even shifting rough, my car still ran better in S+

kponti

This^^^ but mostly in the first 2, maybe first 3 gears.

CerBErusM113

I have the EC tune as well and I've noticed my shifts are quick and seamless in S mode but in S+ my 2nd to 3rd shift makes me feel like I broke a trans mount. The first day of driving it I had sparkblow out, (nasty hesitation) never had a CEL come on from it so I can't confirm it was misfiring. Got double Platinum plugs and gapped to .022 and haven't had a hesitation since. Anyways, the 2nd-3rd shift is rough and it almost lurches you forward and then right back. Now that I've read, it does feel similar to hitting the redline in Manual mode. Good to see it's not just me that has experienced this though.

ajs76

Alright, so I might REALLY be reaching here, but I remember I watched a video prior to buying this car and I think it was an indian lady driving an E63s. She talked about how rough she thought the shift was when you put it in S+ and I NEVER experienced that while stock.

Here is my tinfoil hat conspiracy theorist. Do you think that Mercedes sent out some of their early models more aggressively tuned to the magazine folks to garner better reviews? Because I have a hard time believing anyone thought the S+ mode was rough prior to tune.

Ralcbah

My take on the S+ thing is this:

- the car is no slower in S mode, compared to S+mode, or at least I've proven this to myself on the drag strip...so, if I want immediate shifts, I drive in S mode and go pedal to the medal
- i mostly drive the car in M mode on the street, since I like the fact that the car won't upshift without my request...but again, if looking for best upshift times, S does it for me
- feels like S+ is there to give us the feeling that the car is making brutal shifts, when in fact, it's manipulated, and less than efficient

In response to your tinfoil hat conspiracy theory, this would not surprise me at all...we've all seen 0-60 times, etc, that are quite hard to replicate...this goes for manufacturers and tuners alike...some, but not all of course