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Hey Everyone - long time reader, first time poster here. Wondering if any one takes their E63 to the track for Driver Education track days?
I currently have a GL450 for daily/family use and a Porsche 993 track car. I do about 6-10 track days per year with the Porsche.
Starting to seriously consider buying a new E63 wagon under warranty have it serve double duty - family and track car.
I haven't found much on the forum. Any insight or advice would be greatly appreciated.
Biggest issue I have know is that anytime something breaks on the 993...it costs me $$$. With a new E63S wagon, if something were to break, I could just bring it to the dealer.
I haven't tracked mine, nor will I ever. The car has far more cons than pros on a circuit. Your consumable budget will increase exponentially due to the mass you're trying to hustle around corners, and there's nothing the car does better than a 993 in that environment other than run down long straights.
The 993 is a reasonably sharp instrument. The E63 is a cudgel.
The 993 weighs app. 1500 lbs less than your wagon.
I also own a modified 993. I try to drive the wagon sometimes fairly aggressive but even my wife notices that it can't come close to attacking the corners remotely at the same speeds.
For the last 10 years, I've done my own wrenching on the 993 and after I replaced the complete suspension, bushings, steering, brakes, LWF and lifters, I find this car takes all the pounding now, all day long and nothing broke so far. I don't track the car as it's a cab but I believe Italian and Austrian mountain roads will easily qualify for the same or more abuse than a couple laps on the track.
My recommendation, stick with the 993, it's much more fun to drive.
Ed
There are lots of companies out there that make affordable Porsche consumables (relative to factory bits).
I've had a 993 Carrera, 993 Turbo, 997 Turbo, and a 997 GT3 RS. None of them were cheap to track, and the penalty for failure was severe in terms of collision repair costs.
If you're interested in bringing down your per-event costs, I encourage you to look at Lotus. I had an Elise followed by an Exige S. The Elise was better than the Carrera, and the Exige S was better than the Turbos and 90% of the fun of the RS. They're light enough that tires and brakes last an eternity compared to the Porsche stuff, and are small enough to be laughably cheap. You can hide a Lotus brake pad in your fist. I traded the Exige in on the RS, and immediately had buyers remorse. The Exige is that good.
I completely agree about the 993 and definitely the Exige. The issues for me is that I live in the city. I keep my 993 at a garage 40min away and need to trailer whenever I go to track. Pretty much a major PIA.
Not sure if there is a perfect car, but was thinking the new latest W213 could be a great option...throw a set of wheels in the huge trunk, drive to the track, change tires, drive, then go home. Much more efficient than keeping two cars and trailering.
With regard to replacement rotors, I was asking on the E63. Any place to source "cheaper" rotors and track pads for these cars?
I've tracked my e63s once at NY safety track in Jefferson NY. Definitely an amazing experience, especially being able to drive there & drive back home.
With that said, Porsches, Lotuses & M3s were definitely better suited for such a technical track. I regret not tracking my previous car, 2016 Sti before getting rid of it.
Coming from many previous sports sedans, you would hard pressed to find a more complete car than the E63. But I too find myself wanting a dedicated track car, Cayman or older sti eventually.
There's something completely ridiculous about tracking a W212. But its awesome anyway. Here's me at speed at COTA:
This beast weighs 4434lbs with gas but without driver. Consumables are stupid expensive. And yet tracking it and running down a C6 or a Miata (both challenging in different parts of the track) make it so worth it. And since when did common sense come in to E63 ownership?
These cars make no sense anyway. They're way too powerful and expensive for a DD - 99.99% of the time you're just like an E350. They're way too heavy and glammed up on the track in the same way. But if you buy one of these silly things then you're obviously not right in the head to start with, so let's have some fun!
See you on the track
Track related mods:
AD08R tires (275/30-19 front, 295/30-19 rear), EBC Blue pads, K-Mac camber plates, Eurocharged E85 flex fuel (for lower oil temps with the NA 6.2), Bulleit Rye (for afterwards being ok with paint chips in stupid expensive designo matte white paint)
My factory rotors are ****ed (20K miles but that includes ~75 sessions on track), getting Girodisc soon.
Last edited by RJStanford; 09-17-2017 at 05:16 PM.
Drove a '14 E63S at a private event at Road America a couple years ago and it was AMAZING. I've tracked many generations of M3's before and I would guess my lap times were comparable. AWD + all that horsepower + much better than expected suspension and brakes for the track (car I drove had steel brakes) = a car that's far more impressive on the track than many might think.
My advice to those who dismissed the idea out of hand - get your car out there once, you'll be very surprised.
Drove a '14 E63S at a private event at Road America a couple years ago and it was AMAZING. I've tracked many generations of M3's before and I would guess my lap times were comparable. AWD + all that horsepower + much better than expected suspension and brakes for the track (car I drove had steel brakes) = a car that's far more impressive on the track than many might think.
My advice to those who dismissed the idea out of hand - get your car out there once, you'll be very surprised.
Agreed, all depends on your expectations. If you're a hard core track rat who is considering some form of formal competition, then you probably won't be happy with it (esp. compared to your 993). However, it can certainly be a lot of fun on the track as others have pointed out. Last event I attended at Buttonwillow had a young kid with an early 2000's Toyota Corolla with automatic and no mods. Not exactly a track weapon but he still had a great time and learned a lot from the instructors.
Thanks for the info. I sort of agree with RJStandford. How much fun can you really have with one of these cars on the street. I would think the track is where you can really enjoy the car.
The W213 seems even more suited to occasional track duty. Especially on some high speed tracks, like VIR or Watkins Glenn.
Any other experiences would be appreciated and also places to buy track brake pads and repalcement rotors.
Thanks for the info. I sort of agree with RJStandford. How much fun can you really have with one of these cars on the street. I would think the track is where you can really enjoy the car.
The W213 seems even more suited to occasional track duty. Especially on some high speed tracks, like VIR or Watkins Glenn.
Any other experiences would be appreciated and also places to buy track brake pads and repalcement rotors.
Thanks
I tracked for many years and instructed for the last 4 of those. That being said, I have not been on the track for about 9 years! I got burnt out I guess.....
Although I have not had the urge to track the E63, I wouldn't rule it out. I figure I bought the car to enjoy....if heading to the track sounds like fun, do it! Don't let anybody dissuade you.
Hey guys, on the note of putting an E63 on the track, I am mulling over what my next car will be...
I had an '05 E55 sedan that was fun, then got a '12 CTS-V wagon that I had for the past 3 years and just sold. I did track the V - both drag racing and then a far more fun annual hill climb in Nevada the past 3 years. With that said the V is gone, and I'm torn as to whether I want to get back into a Mercedes (and probably another wagon) - or get more serious about track capabilities.
I'm specifically trying to decide between either going the route of a W212 '14-17? E63 S - probably finding a wagon if I go this route - or a '17 Camaro ZL1. Yes, unquestionably the Camaro is a better track car....
But just how 'bad' of a track car is a facelifted AWD W212 E63s, is what I'm trying to determine. My -V weighed 4400 lbs+, was RWD, and had respectable handling for its size, and had about 575 rwhp when I sold it.
I'm not blind to the idea that hustling a big saloon/estate around is not the norm, but as I think we all know, traction and HP cures many ails (and can overcome a lot of mass.) Here's a video of me hustling the -V wagon up the VCHC hill:
That was on sub-optimal tires and no suspension/sway bar upgrades and it still managed a better time than a number of performance cars and exotics that year. Anyway - practically speaking, an E63 wagon would be more usable on a daily basis for me but it's not an absolute requirement. I could live with a ZL1's idiosyncrasies, but something about a Merc still calls to me.
I see a lot of very positive reviews re: the new W213s on the track; how much of a difference is there between a '14+ W212 and the W213 in terms of performance? I'm not afraid of dumping reasonable mods into a W212 to make (a lot) more power - I would aim for at least 650+awhp. But beyond that, is the W213 significantly lighter? Are the suspension changes that substantial? If we put Michelin Pilot Sport 4S tires on both cars, how far apart do you guys think they would really be?
Bottom line is I'd prefer to spend something closer to $60k versus double that, hence why the W213's not in the running.
If you want primarily a track car, don't go with an E63 - the Camaro is far better suited to that. If you want a car that you CAN take the track to have some fun and explore its limits, then by all means the E63 would be fine. Curb weight for the S213 is 4,669 (4,674 for the S212) - that plus 600hp = a lot of wear and tear and consumables cost. You know from the CTS-V but will be more $ for MB for tires, brakes, oil, etc. Plus add in faster wear for things like hubs, diff/trans, etc. Just doesn't make sense to use it as a regular track car (more than a couple days per year) if you care about cost.
The weight for the S212 and 213 are about the same. The AWD system is variable in the 213, rather than the fixed split, no idea how it will hold up but sounds like the handling is better. Suspension is tuned different. Regardless, there is no getting around the fact you are hauling around two and a half tons. Power will not cure all *ills* but can at least impress you as to how capable it is. Priceless to be out there lapping in a wagon...
If you want primarily a track car, don't go with an E63 - the Camaro is far better suited to that. If you want a car that you CAN take the track to have some fun and explore its limits, then by all means the E63 would be fine. Curb weight for the S213 is 4,669 (4,674 for the S212) - that plus 600hp = a lot of wear and tear and consumables cost. You know from the CTS-V but will be more $ for MB for tires, brakes, oil, etc. Plus add in faster wear for things like hubs, diff/trans, etc. Just doesn't make sense to use it as a regular track car (more than a couple days per year) if you care about cost.
The weight for the S212 and 213 are about the same. The AWD system is variable in the 213, rather than the fixed split, no idea how it will hold up but sounds like the handling is better. Suspension is tuned different. Regardless, there is no getting around the fact you are hauling around two and a half tons. Power will not cure all *ills* but can at least impress you as to how capable it is. Priceless to be out there lapping in a wagon...
As I'm sure you can imagine the rationale for an E63 (and spousal acceptance factor) is easier to manage with a 4 door that can also hold our 3 young boys, versus the Camaro which more or less becomes a toy. Thankfully already have 2 SUVs that can haul the kids, and neither of us commute aside from taking the kids to school, so whatever happens is strictly a nice-to-have.
+1 to priceless to be out there lapping with a wagon. The 3 years I did at the VCHC with the -V were much-enjoyed by all...
09-10-2017, 08:23 PM
e63s @ LIME ROCK PARK SCDA TRACK DAY
