Gymkata1

Hi everybody. I just posted this same question in the W213 section looking for feedback.

I don't own an AMG, but am looking for some insight from anybody here who understands the power potential for the 5.5l and 4.0l turbo engines. I currently DD my truck and have a decently modified Lexus ISF for fun, but I've been thinking about turning the ISF into more of a track only vehicle and building a comfortable high horsepower "family" vehicle that will surprise everybody at the drag strip. I definitely want AWD and I've always been a fan of the Mercedes wagons.

I've been looking at the new AMG E63S wagon and love it...I have a 9.XX 1/4 mile goal in mind while still retaining comfort and driveability. Would it be better to get a W212 (I assume there is much more aftermarket support for engine internals, turbos, etc) with the 5.5l or get a W213 and wait for the aftermarket to catch up. I know I would greatly enjoy the improved driving dynamic with the W213's new AWD system and any new tech provided, but with comfy straight line speed being my ultimate goal...??? Which engine has more potential? Thanks in advance for any advice.

CarHopper

You wont get 9.xx in a 212.

Get the 213.

Gymkata1

Thanks for the feedback. So a reliable 900-1000 bhp with stronger internals and bigger turbos, etc isn't realistic with the 5.5l? I haven't had a whole lot of time yet to research what other's have done with the 212.

jnolan

If you want a (Mercedes) track car, buy a new GT R. The E class is too heavy. There are a lot of cars available in this price range that will give you a phenomenal track experience. Hell, a tricked out Miata will be faster and a lot more fun on the track that some over-powered luxury sedan.

Or go spend the money on a 911 that will turn good times without killing the car in the process. The new Carrera T is worth looking at.

Gymkata1

I'm not looking for a track car. As I stated in my first post I'm considering building a comfortable but extremely fast (straight line) AWD family car.

PeterUbers

Get the w213.... listen to Purpleheartamg

chiromikey

You can build a 1000hp car on either platform. The problem will be getting the software to allow you to use it. There are 1000+hp cars that still can’t break 9s because of this.

CarHopper

Shopping the wrong brand.

New M5 or RS7 would be the right place to start.

jnolan

I misunderstood your first post... I see now that you are looking to turn the lexus into a track car. Here are the issues you are going to deal with on a W212 or W213.

1) Drivetrain: Horsepower is just a number that is the result of a torque measurement. The Mercedes 7 (and 9) speed MCT is a wet clutch, not a torque converter, so it needs a control unit to engage/disengage the clutch. That TCU requires calibration with the engine output to properly manage gear shifts. I’d be concerned about the driveability with the power you are targeting... and then there is durability.
2) Durability: The drivetrain on the W212 is good up to 1,300 nm of torque but the problem is that as you get closer to max the result will be a decrease in component lifecycle.
3) Warranty: I have a 2016 W212 Estate that I bought new... I would not want to have one of these cars without a warranty. A W213 tuned is going to void the warranty. I’m actually looking at a build-to-order w213 now just because I don’t want to be off warranty in another year.

These cars are fast-as-*uck right out of the box. There is a absurdity factor in tuning these cars when the problem isn’t lack of power but too much weight.

PeterUbers

Also by all accounts the w213 mct is significantly improved for daily drive ability over the w212

Amg63-

Still wondering here if the new M5 with that advantage is really any faster off the line than the new E63s...

CarHopper

Stock vs stock they'll be about the same. But the M5 will have more potential once you start talking mod for mod.

I think the weak point on the new one will be the whole rwd to awd system and I see those cars spending a fair bit of time in the shop because of that.

Gymkata1

I'm not enough of a fan of the RS7 to consider it, but I am interested in the new M5. I actually dropped by both Mercedes and BMW dealerships today to chat up a few salesmen. I like the looks of the E63 a little better and am inclined to believe it would be a little more reliable than the M5 (possibly just a personal bias as I've never owned either brand), but I tend to agree that the M5 might have more speed potential. It is a few hundred pounds lighter too, which is nice.

chiromikey

CarHopper

In my experience, my MB's have been more reliable than my BMWs. But my BMWs always start and get from A to B as well.

Generally speaking, I let new models come out for at least a year before buying them so I'd still give this decision some time. The bottom line is, the 5.5L w212 won't get you 9.xx and even getting reliable 10.9x's is tough because the tranny is going to stop you. Furthermore, realistically speaking you're not going to hit 9's in a heavy German power-sedan without throwing lots of cash at the car and sacrificing things. If you want a 9 second sedan you're looking at a Hellcat or maybe even the new CTS-V. Personally, I think that cts-v is a great looking car I just don't know enough about them to speak on reliability and modability, but I'll bet there are plenty of ways to make more power with them and likely cheaper being American.

Now, if you reset your goals a little bit and just want a fast, fun, powerful sedan that is comfortable inside, turns heads outside, and slaps the majority of what is on the street then by all means, get a w213 e63s. I still think at the end of the day the m5 is going to be faster than the E when it comes to modding especially as BMW tends to get more aftermarket support than MB. I'm with you on the RS7, it doesn't do much for me with that design although the interior is awesome. If an RS6 was stateside I wouldn't be in an MB though.

jnolan

Gymkata1

I'm the same way...I would seriously consider an RS6, but not the RS7. The US misses out on so many great cars.

danclements

We stopped getting the E63 Wagon in January 2013, when the facelifted W212 landed. So no wagons for 5 years now. I was lucky enough to get one of the last. But, the RS6 is ONLY available in the wagon in AUS and it owns that sector as a result. You guys get a stack more options in the high powered sedan/wagon stakes over there than we do, for sure.

Gymkata1

...I guess I should have said the US misses out on so many cool cars vs Europe. Ha