M157 Timing chain stretched?
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Joined: Dec 2008
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shrimp boat
if you look at the engine from the front, back of the driver side head, reach your hand straight down. The CPS is burried under couple looms of wires. Held down by one bolt.
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 366
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From: Australia
E63S
I believe you are already following a current thread on here of a 2011 CLS 63 in Australia. Similar mileage and ? age as your car and by the sounds of it a similar issue that developed suddenly in a previously completely healthy car. Sadly his tale of automotive woe ended with his motor needing a major top end rebuild following a broken timing chain.
Given this poor bloke’s story and the original opinion of your trusted indie mechanic I would be assuming as a starting point that you have a similar timing chain issue till proven otherwise. Were I in your position I certainly would not be messing about checking codes and changing CP sensors etc let alone even running the engine until the timing chain had been cleared.
As someone else on here has pointed out already ideally this should be done by someone familiar with these engines. Maybe the best place to start is with a MB repair shop at least to obtain a diagnosis. It is possible, just maybe, that if yours is indeed one of the M157 motors with the timing chain issue covered by the recall and addressed with revised tensioners that MB might help out in some way with the repair costs?
Given this poor bloke’s story and the original opinion of your trusted indie mechanic I would be assuming as a starting point that you have a similar timing chain issue till proven otherwise. Were I in your position I certainly would not be messing about checking codes and changing CP sensors etc let alone even running the engine until the timing chain had been cleared.
As someone else on here has pointed out already ideally this should be done by someone familiar with these engines. Maybe the best place to start is with a MB repair shop at least to obtain a diagnosis. It is possible, just maybe, that if yours is indeed one of the M157 motors with the timing chain issue covered by the recall and addressed with revised tensioners that MB might help out in some way with the repair costs?
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 1,410
Likes: 233
From: Socal and Norcal
MY17 S63AMG - MBUSA Buyback. MY16 SL63 - Sold MY19 W213 E63s. 2020 W213 E63s Wagon
Have you tried to reach out to MBusa and get a courtesy fix. It’s pretty common with this issues since allot of people have faced it including me. It wouldn’t hurt since MB have records of how many people run into it. It wouldn’t hurt.
Good luck.
Good luck.
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 445
Likes: 157
From: ATL
CLS 63 and M4
I believe you are already following a current thread on here of a 2011 CLS 63 in Australia. Similar mileage and ? age as your car and by the sounds of it a similar issue that developed suddenly in a previously completely healthy car. Sadly his tale of automotive woe ended with his motor needing a major top end rebuild following a broken timing chain.
Given this poor bloke’s story and the original opinion of your trusted indie mechanic I would be assuming as a starting point that you have a similar timing chain issue till proven otherwise. Were I in your position I certainly would not be messing about checking codes and changing CP sensors etc let alone even running the engine until the timing chain had been cleared.
As someone else on here has pointed out already ideally this should be done by someone familiar with these engines. Maybe the best place to start is with a MB repair shop at least to obtain a diagnosis. It is possible, just maybe, that if yours is indeed one of the M157 motors with the timing chain issue covered by the recall and addressed with revised tensioners that MB might help out in some way with the repair costs?
Given this poor bloke’s story and the original opinion of your trusted indie mechanic I would be assuming as a starting point that you have a similar timing chain issue till proven otherwise. Were I in your position I certainly would not be messing about checking codes and changing CP sensors etc let alone even running the engine until the timing chain had been cleared.
As someone else on here has pointed out already ideally this should be done by someone familiar with these engines. Maybe the best place to start is with a MB repair shop at least to obtain a diagnosis. It is possible, just maybe, that if yours is indeed one of the M157 motors with the timing chain issue covered by the recall and addressed with revised tensioners that MB might help out in some way with the repair costs?
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 282
Likes: 26
2012 CLS 63
I believe you are already following a current thread on here of a 2011 CLS 63 in Australia. Similar mileage and ? age as your car and by the sounds of it a similar issue that developed suddenly in a previously completely healthy car. Sadly his tale of automotive woe ended with his motor needing a major top end rebuild following a broken timing chain.
Given this poor bloke’s story and the original opinion of your trusted indie mechanic I would be assuming as a starting point that you have a similar timing chain issue till proven otherwise. Were I in your position I certainly would not be messing about checking codes and changing CP sensors etc let alone even running the engine until the timing chain had been cleared.
As someone else on here has pointed out already ideally this should be done by someone familiar with these engines. Maybe the best place to start is with a MB repair shop at least to obtain a diagnosis. It is possible, just maybe, that if yours is indeed one of the M157 motors with the timing chain issue covered by the recall and addressed with revised tensioners that MB might help out in some way with the repair costs?
Given this poor bloke’s story and the original opinion of your trusted indie mechanic I would be assuming as a starting point that you have a similar timing chain issue till proven otherwise. Were I in your position I certainly would not be messing about checking codes and changing CP sensors etc let alone even running the engine until the timing chain had been cleared.
As someone else on here has pointed out already ideally this should be done by someone familiar with these engines. Maybe the best place to start is with a MB repair shop at least to obtain a diagnosis. It is possible, just maybe, that if yours is indeed one of the M157 motors with the timing chain issue covered by the recall and addressed with revised tensioners that MB might help out in some way with the repair costs?
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 366
Likes: 11
From: Australia
E63S
timing chain recall? is this related to the TSB that @amgboy916 posted? sorry if its a dumb question but i tried google and came up with nothing.
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 282
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2012 CLS 63
I have a question for you guys out there please forgive me its a dumb one
ive been reluctant to go to MB dealer for diagnosis because I just deleted my cats and Currently have some codes for 02 sensor. I was planning to get a retune from my tuner to get rid of the CEL is this something I need to do before I bring it into MB dealership to diagnose the other issues?
my car is out of warranty anyways so I'm already on my own but I don't want to risk getting in trouble if this is something they would complain or report. Please let me know what you think
either go get diagnostic as is?
or send my ecu out for retune and get diagnostic after?
ive been reluctant to go to MB dealer for diagnosis because I just deleted my cats and Currently have some codes for 02 sensor. I was planning to get a retune from my tuner to get rid of the CEL is this something I need to do before I bring it into MB dealership to diagnose the other issues?
my car is out of warranty anyways so I'm already on my own but I don't want to risk getting in trouble if this is something they would complain or report. Please let me know what you think
either go get diagnostic as is?
or send my ecu out for retune and get diagnostic after?
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,190
Likes: 35
shrimp boat
I have a question for you guys out there please forgive me its a dumb one
ive been reluctant to go to MB dealer for diagnosis because I just deleted my cats and Currently have some codes for 02 sensor. I was planning to get a retune from my tuner to get rid of the CEL is this something I need to do before I bring it into MB dealership to diagnose the other issues?
my car is out of warranty anyways so I'm already on my own but I don't want to risk getting in trouble if this is something they would complain or report. Please let me know what you think
either go get diagnostic as is?
or send my ecu out for retune and get diagnostic after?
ive been reluctant to go to MB dealer for diagnosis because I just deleted my cats and Currently have some codes for 02 sensor. I was planning to get a retune from my tuner to get rid of the CEL is this something I need to do before I bring it into MB dealership to diagnose the other issues?
my car is out of warranty anyways so I'm already on my own but I don't want to risk getting in trouble if this is something they would complain or report. Please let me know what you think
either go get diagnostic as is?
or send my ecu out for retune and get diagnostic after?
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Out Of Control!!
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 13,799
Likes: 3,228
2014 E63S; AMS 100 octane ECU dyno tune; EDOK TCU tune; BB intakes; sprintbooster
I have a question for you guys out there please forgive me its a dumb one
ive been reluctant to go to MB dealer for diagnosis because I just deleted my cats and Currently have some codes for 02 sensor. I was planning to get a retune from my tuner to get rid of the CEL is this something I need to do before I bring it into MB dealership to diagnose the other issues?
my car is out of warranty anyways so I'm already on my own but I don't want to risk getting in trouble if this is something they would complain or report. Please let me know what you think
either go get diagnostic as is?
or send my ecu out for retune and get diagnostic after?
ive been reluctant to go to MB dealer for diagnosis because I just deleted my cats and Currently have some codes for 02 sensor. I was planning to get a retune from my tuner to get rid of the CEL is this something I need to do before I bring it into MB dealership to diagnose the other issues?
my car is out of warranty anyways so I'm already on my own but I don't want to risk getting in trouble if this is something they would complain or report. Please let me know what you think
either go get diagnostic as is?
or send my ecu out for retune and get diagnostic after?
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 282
Likes: 26
2012 CLS 63
as for the fouler I actually do have those installed and still throwing codes lol my tuner said its like a 50/50 chance itll work
Thread Starter
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Joined: Oct 2016
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2012 CLS 63
You might give the following a try.
About 8 years ago when I had 10 years on my E55 at that time, I could not get the engine to fire while at a store parking lot. I called my Indy and he said to take a couple of water bottles and pour them in the general location that agrees with the picture of the sensor above. He said gunk can just build up around the CPS and cause the issue. So I went and bought a couple of 12 ouncers and tried it. And BOOM, it fired up! And, it actually never came back either. Now I'm not sure if this will work on a W212, but I don't think it will do any damage to try it.
About 8 years ago when I had 10 years on my E55 at that time, I could not get the engine to fire while at a store parking lot. I called my Indy and he said to take a couple of water bottles and pour them in the general location that agrees with the picture of the sensor above. He said gunk can just build up around the CPS and cause the issue. So I went and bought a couple of 12 ouncers and tried it. And BOOM, it fired up! And, it actually never came back either. Now I'm not sure if this will work on a W212, but I don't think it will do any damage to try it.
I was bored at home and decided to try it friday. and well the weird thing is I did this and cleared the codes and its been almost 3 days. the P0017 code and the 02 sensor codes have come back but the P0018 code is gone entirely and hasnt come back. Definitely weird. I will still be getting a proper diagnosis but I wanted you to know that this actually might have made a difference lol also leads me to believe the CPS may be faulty
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From: Bay Area, California
2015 E63s AMG, 2020 GLC 43 AMG
All true, except in the instance of requesting a MBUSA "good faith" repair. Might be denied with no mods anyway, but likely would be denied if they see obvious mods I would think.
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,399
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From: Bay Area, California
2015 E63s AMG, 2020 GLC 43 AMG
thank you for this weird Idea
I was bored at home and decided to try it friday. and well the weird thing is I did this and cleared the codes and its been almost 3 days. the P0017 code and the 02 sensor codes have come back but the P0018 code is gone entirely and hasnt come back. Definitely weird. I will still be getting a proper diagnosis but I wanted you to know that this actually might have made a difference lol also leads me to believe the CPS may be faulty
I was bored at home and decided to try it friday. and well the weird thing is I did this and cleared the codes and its been almost 3 days. the P0017 code and the 02 sensor codes have come back but the P0018 code is gone entirely and hasnt come back. Definitely weird. I will still be getting a proper diagnosis but I wanted you to know that this actually might have made a difference lol also leads me to believe the CPS may be faulty
I was kind of hoping you would have tried it sooner, but I'm glad it is showing positive results SO FAR!
Good Luck
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 282
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2012 CLS 63
Fault code
Update:
Got the CPS sensor but was not able to install before the diagnostic.
Ended up getting diagnostic at Indy shop not dealer because I got a bad relationship with my local dealership anyways the shop gave me a xentry printout for free and couldn’t pin an exact cause mainly because my car is tuned and they were afraid to do much for some stupid reason
The shop also says they don’t think it’s CPS sensor
They weren’t willing to give a lot of help because it was tuned but they gave me the printout for free so I can’t complain too much.
There’s a fault code
P001885 position of intake camshaft is implausible relative to the crankshaft
They said this could be camshaft adjusters? I’ve changed (2 of the magnets in the past already but 2 I have not )
There is also something saying
Total actuation angle of quantity control valve is at 15 when the specified value is 20-210
Also don’t know what this means
They claim they aren’t sure if the tuner did this on purpose and encourage me to contact the tuner for help but my tuner didn’t cause any of this and it was running fine for over 30k Miles with the tune also my tuner says I should get the car fixed before sending ecu in for a retune so basically I’ve been pointed back to repairing this first. Anybody have ideas? Will post pics for reference
Member
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 241
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From: Richmond, VA
2004 E55 - 2010 GL450 - 2011 GL550
If the car is still at the independent shop have them turn the engine to the correct position and remove all 4 camshaft sensors. They can inspect the camshaft positions and see if one is off. The exact position is in WIS. It sounds to me like one of the pulse wheels on the camshafts has moved. We have seen a few of them but no stretched timing chains. Also check for oil in the harness. If they follow the diagnosis procedure with the fault code it should lead them to this check. Good Luck.
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 282
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2012 CLS 63
If the car is still at the independent shop have them turn the engine to the correct position and remove all 4 camshaft sensors. They can inspect the camshaft positions and see if one is off. The exact position is in WIS. It sounds to me like one of the pulse wheels on the camshafts has moved. We have seen a few of them but no stretched timing chains. Also check for oil in the harness. If they follow the diagnosis procedure with the fault code it should lead them to this check. Good Luck.
i appreciate the help thank you
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 791
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From: Detroit Area
W203 C230, W210 E350, W166 ML63
Sorry for reviving a dead thread, but just wondering if you ever found out if the chain was stretched or was it just a CPS?
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Joined: May 2015
Posts: 4,037
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From: Miami, FL
2003 CL 600
Never a CPS with this issue. We did have chains stretch on modded/hard driven cars, and we had camshaft position trigger wheels move on camshafts from time to time on 276/278/157 engines. Check the timing, accurately. It will probably be off somewhere, that's what the pcm is saying. If you can clear the code and it doesn't reset immediately, you can watch the cam positions in Xentry and see if one is moving erratic or is constantly offset to have a better idea of what is going on. Once the fault sets it stops trying to adjust that cam so the value will stay fixed.
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From: CA
E63 M157
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From: MD
S 63 Coupe, GLS 63
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 791
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From: Detroit Area
W203 C230, W210 E350, W166 ML63
I have the updated timing chain, pretensioner and check valve. I get an occasional long crank after car has got to operating temp and then sits for 3-4 hours in warm climate. No issue in cold weather. No CEL. I’ve checked the cam magnets and the cam sensors for any kind of oil contamination but nothing significant found. Doesn’t look like there are any leaks from the magnets or the sensors either. I have not checked the crankshaft position sensor.
Just recently started having this issues and looking for some advice before going to Indy. Car has 40K miles and is a 14 ML63.
Just recently started having this issues and looking for some advice before going to Indy. Car has 40K miles and is a 14 ML63.
