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Are you certain the TUNE caused this? How did you come to that conclusion? Just curious.
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Originally Posted by TexasBenzBandit
(Post 7777892)
Are you certain the TUNE caused this? How did you come to that conclusion? Just curious.
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Were you running stock plugs? Improperly indexed plugs could melt the piston or running lean.
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...d48d6a5b91.png |
Damn that sucks man, you can get used engine for~$10,000. This is exactly why I don’t want to get tune
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These cars have many documented injector failures, many intermittent that don’t through immediate codes. That’s what I would investigate before blaming a reputable tune (assuming that you used one).
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Originally Posted by shkrelz
(Post 7778188)
I was running stock plugs gapped to stock spec, I thought maybe I had a bad injector where the piston melted but the injector was good. Oil level was checked weekly never ran low. I’m sure the tune did this my car had no issues. Mercedes Benz of white plains in New York told me they have never seen this car come in for anything engine related. I think that the tune was just too aggressive and did some damage over time. Maybe it wasn’t the tune but it seems right.
It sucks that you had a catastrophic failure, but blaming the tune after 10k miles makes zero sense. There are far too many mechanical variables to rule out before blaming the magic horsepower box. A few of those variables are documented to cause this kind of failure under bone stock conditions. Right above your post is an image of the exact damage you have caused by one of those variables. You mentioned stock plug with stock gap. But if the plug were not properly indexed, same result. Rule out the mechanical possibilities before blaming the 1s and 0s. There are more than a few tuned cars here that have tunes with more miles than you without having failures. |
Yep three reported injector failures without CEL on the Forum alone including the m156 engine
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Originally Posted by shkrelz
(Post 7778188)
I was running stock plugs gapped to stock spec, I thought maybe I had a bad injector where the piston melted but the injector was good. Oil level was checked weekly never ran low. I’m sure the tune did this my car had no issues. Mercedes Benz of white plains in New York told me they have never seen this car come in for anything engine related. I think that the tune was just too aggressive and did some damage over time. Maybe it wasn’t the tune but it seems right.
At the end of the day you should chalk it up to bad luck and the increase in power. |
Originally Posted by PeterUbers
(Post 7778581)
Yep three reported injector failures without CEL on the Forum alone including the m156 engine
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Originally Posted by shkrelz
(Post 7778188)
I was running stock plugs gapped to stock spec, I thought maybe I had a bad injector where the piston melted but the injector was good. Oil level was checked weekly never ran low. I’m sure the tune did this my car had no issues. Mercedes Benz of white plains in New York told me they have never seen this car come in for anything engine related. I think that the tune was just too aggressive and did some damage over time. Maybe it wasn’t the tune but it seems right.
Curious - what dyno numbers did you show when you got the tune and downpipes? Seems for a tune and downpipes most m157 / E63S tuners are doing around 640whp (up or down) so if you were above that then maybe the tune was too aggressive. But you said your had 10k miles on the tune with no issues (no misfires or codes????) so would assume a overly aggressive tune would have thrown misfire codes immediately or certainly within the first 1000 miles. Not sure what tuned HP level above the stock HP rating starts to cause engine stress, but l I’ve heard of a few MB Dealers offering 3rd party tunes that they will warranty for the m157/w212 E63 but the peak crank HP has been around 675 HP so perhaps anything above that level is excessively hard on the motor if driven hard consistently. With that said, it seems fairly rare to hear about any m157 motor issues on stock E63’s as all the reported issues people talk about are tune related (of course there are also numerous tuned E63 / m14”57 owners who’ve had no issues either so sometimes it’s just bad luck) |
Originally Posted by CarHopper
(Post 7778636)
m156 pre or post 2012? It really shouldn't matter, and comparing 156 to 157 is apples and oranges. Just surprised the amount of catastrophic failures coming from plugs
Are you making a point? |
Did your car ever misfire and go into limp mode previously during the 10k miles tuned? If your plugs were not properly indexed your car would be misfiring and run like crap. Also I had my high pressure fuel pumps go out but car would fuel cut and go into limp mode to protect the motor. Also it seems unlikely that you would have 6 injectors go at once and cause damage to 6 cylinders. I'm guessing your car had a pre existing issue prior to you purchasing it or a really bad tune but I doubt the tune was the issue it may have just sped up the engine failure.
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Now I remember this one..... Not saying anything more
https://mbworld.org/forums/w212-amg/...ml#post7582100 |
Also with cylinder scoring like that I'm sure your car was burning a ton of oil prior to it completely letting go. Sorry to see this happen to your car OP check ebay theres some good deals on used motors and long blocks ($8-10k).
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Originally Posted by jvakos
(Post 7778784)
Now I remember this one..... Not saying anything more
https://mbworld.org/forums/w212-amg/...ml#post7582100 |
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Originally Posted by shkrelz
(Post 7778842)
Car was making 600 wheel and 690 torque on a mustang dyno. I’ve had misfires in the past resulting the car going into limp mode but after I changed the spark plugs never happened again. The engine was rebuilt the cars back on the road everything is fine now took off the tune. I would suspect the tune to do this damage unless I just have some real bad luck.
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600 whp on mustang dyno is no joke, you should of invested in 1 step colder plugs and a meth kit. But not tune for meth just let it keep tepms down or AMS cooling upgrade. Misfires at WOT are bad. Good luck next time.
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Originally Posted by Classic777
(Post 7778850)
Definitely the tune.
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Originally Posted by shkrelz
(Post 7778842)
Car was making 600 wheel and 690 torque on a mustang dyno. I’ve had misfires in the past resulting the car going into limp mode but after I changed the spark plugs never happened again. The engine was rebuilt the cars back on the road everything is fine now took off the tune. I would suspect the tune to do this damage unless I just have some real bad luck.
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you aware mustang dyno's usually report lower numbers than dynojet.... so that 600 may have been higher if on a dynojet...
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Again,Sorry to hear brother, i wish we would have met up sooner to get a datalog of your car to have some more concrete info.
This is no question a tuning failure, that was pushed too aggressive on pump gas... It is pretty clear cut, but of course no tuner is going to own up to it. So ahead we go. Multiple bent connecting rods, melted piston, and another scored cylinder, its pretty clear... Most tuners in the M157 market use the oem boost by load route for this engines to control boost and now that the weather is getting hot, the boost is also going up to meet the load demand.. (As in the OP/s situation, it is only beginning to get a bit warmer here in the east coast which means more boost) The aggressive boost and ign advance start to slowly degrade your engine until the inevitable happens. High miles, High boost and high timing, we will see more of this with tuners who pushing and relying on the Knock sensors to retard ign to save it, slowly killing it, or pushing too much boost on pump gas. I have seen it on a few fellow tuned M157's, high boost, using stock oem ign advance timing! I have a datalog sitting in my laptop of a fellow members tuned car, the car is consistently pulling timing, and consistently having timing drop outs.. Too much boost for pump gas and falling in love with timing seems to be a issue in the M157 world. I wont name the tuner, but if anyone would like i can DM them the log or post in a new thread. Glad you are back up and running brotha! And a good warning to most, be careful with the tuner you use. |
Originally Posted by 5soko
(Post 7779497)
Again,Sorry to hear brother, i wish we would have met up sooner to get a datalog of your car to have some more concrete info.
This is no question a tuning failure, that was pushed too aggressive on pump gas... It is pretty clear cut, but of course no tuner is going to own up to it. So ahead we go. Multiple bent connecting rods, melted piston, and another scored cylinder, its pretty clear... Most tuners in the M157 market use the oem boost by load route for this engines to control boost and now that the weather is getting hot, the boost is also going up to meet the load demand.. (As in the OP/s situation, it is only beginning to get a bit warmer here in the east coast which means more boost) The aggressive boost and ign advance start to slowly degrade your engine until the inevitable happens. High miles, High boost and high timing, we will see more of this with tuners who pushing and relying on the ECU's Knock sensors to ign retarding to save it, slowly killing it, or pushing too much boost on pump gas. I have seen it on a few fellow tuned M157's, high boost, using stock oem ign advance timing! I have a datalog sitting in my laptop of a fellow members tuned car, the car is consistently pulling timing, and consistently having timing drop outs.. Too much boost for pump gas and falling in love with timing seems to be a issue in the M157 world. I wont name the tuner, but if anyone would like i can DM them the log or post in a new thread. Glad you are back up and running brotha! And a good warning to most, be careful with the tuner you use. |
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