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I found this pic online of a cls63 and I noticed it had a modified intake setup. The setup looks simple and similar to some of the setups vendors are producing for the new c63 v8 biturbo engines that are showing results. From what I understand the concern of the intake taking in hot air is less of a concern on turbo applications. Anyone have any real world experience with a setup similar to this on our engines?
I had a big tear in my oem intakes and felt like my car was a slug, presumably because I was sucking air from under the hood. Replaced it and found the car came back to life.
I had a big tear in my oem intakes and felt like my car was a slug, presumably because I was sucking air from under the hood. Replaced it and found the car came back to life.
was more than likely psychological. heat from the engine doesnt really compare to the heat coming from the turbo...which is where the air has to pass before getting to the intercooler. its why 'cold air' intakes on turbo'd/intercooled dont really make any sense.
Not sure I can agree with your psychological assessment. I would bet that the German engineers were thinking perfectly straight when they designed the intake system to benefit from a ram air effect sucking air from the outside. Would have probably cost a lot let less to abandon that and simply suck hot air from under the hood.
Every single one of my Previous and current AMG’s used this same design.
Even the car on the dyno shown in the OP’s picture would somewhat benefit from this effect considering the hood being open.
Perhaps you should remove your intake tubes, abandon them altogether, and tell us how your car feels. 👍🏻
Not sure I can agree with your psychological assessment. I would bet that the German engineers were thinking perfectly straight when they designed the intake system to benefit from a ram air effect sucking air from the outside. Would have probably cost a lot let less to abandon that and simply suck hot air from under the hood.
Every single one of my Previous and current AMG’s used this same design.
Even the car on the dyno shown in the OP’s picture would somewhat benefit from this effect considering the hood being open.
Perhaps you should remove your intake tubes, abandon them altogether, and tell us how your car feels. ����
so here's the thing...how many psi do you think this 'ram air effect' produces compared to what the turbo generates? and if you wanna compare temps....compare the temp 'under the hood' to the temperature of the turbo thats being spun by exhausts that can reach 1200F. turbos can literally glow red from the heat and we're worried about getting cooler ambient air BEFORE its superheated by the turbo? thats what the intercooler is for. not to mention that actually compressing the air...which the turbo is doing...creates heat as a byproduct.
the hood is open on a dyno to avoid heat soak. and heat soak doesnt just mean intake temps. its caused by increased coolant temps, oil temps, etc. and none of those things have anything to do with a 'cold air intake'.
if the new intake is less restrictive than stock...then you will see a benefit. but you will only get significant gains by cooling the air AFTER the turbo...not before it.
the problem is...folks like UPD call their product a 'cold air induction kit' when all they are doing is increasing the air flow. there's nothing 'cold' about their system. the benefits come from the better airflow. not any decrease....there isnt any...of intake temp (again, before the turbo)
so here's the thing...how many psi do you think this 'ram air effect' produces compared to what the turbo generates? and if you wanna compare temps....compare the temp 'under the hood' to the temperature of the turbo thats being spun by exhausts that can reach 1200F. turbos can literally glow red from the heat and we're worried about getting cooler ambient air BEFORE its superheated by the turbo? thats what the intercooler is for. not to mention that actually compressing the air...which the turbo is doing...creates heat as a byproduct.
the hood is open on a dyno to avoid heat soak. and heat soak doesnt just mean intake temps. its caused by increased coolant temps, oil temps, etc. and none of those things have anything to do with a 'cold air intake'.
if the new intake is less restrictive than stock...then you will see a benefit. but you will only get significant gains by cooling the air AFTER the turbo...not before it.
the problem is...folks like UPD call their product a 'cold air induction kit' when all they are doing is increasing the air flow. there's nothing 'cold' about their system. the benefits come from the better airflow. not any decrease....there isnt any...of intake temp (again, before the turbo)
I agree this is by no means a cold air setup. But it looks to be less restrictive than the stock box. If I had a track closer to me I would test it. Same day multiple runs with both setups.
14 E63, 05 E55, 03 Evo 8, 08 F250, 06 R6R, 92 Talon TSI, and instability
Originally Posted by 1MavRick
so here's the thing...how many psi do you think this 'ram air effect' produces compared to what the turbo generates? and if you wanna compare temps....compare the temp 'under the hood' to the temperature of the turbo thats being spun by exhausts that can reach 1200F. turbos can literally glow red from the heat and we're worried about getting cooler ambient air BEFORE its superheated by the turbo? thats what the intercooler is for. not to mention that actually compressing the air...which the turbo is doing...creates heat as a byproduct.
the hood is open on a dyno to avoid heat soak. and heat soak doesnt just mean intake temps. its caused by increased coolant temps, oil temps, etc. and none of those things have anything to do with a 'cold air intake'.
if the new intake is less restrictive than stock...then you will see a benefit. but you will only get significant gains by cooling the air AFTER the turbo...not before it.
the problem is...folks like UPD call their product a 'cold air induction kit' when all they are doing is increasing the air flow. there's nothing 'cold' about their system. the benefits come from the better airflow. not any decrease....there isnt any...of intake temp (again, before the turbo)
Intake temps pre-turbo ABSOLUTELY matters as the air from the intake goes directly to the turbo first. Depending on where you live and the season, an intake leak (not a boost leak) can affect our car's performance more noticeably than in other locations. It is in your interest to maintain as stable of intake temps as possible for the longest duration of time.
Additionally, colder intake air helps cool the turbo. Yes, the ambient heat from the exhaust side of the turbo raises the temperature of the air entering the intercooler. However, the air that goes into the turbo also has an ambient cooling effect on the the turbocharger itself helping to keep that 1200 degree "Taiwanese twister sister" from becoming a 1300 degree pile of slag.
14 E63, 05 E55, 03 Evo 8, 08 F250, 06 R6R, 92 Talon TSI, and instability
Originally Posted by Juice1979
I found this pic online of a cls63 and I noticed it had a modified intake setup. The setup looks simple and similar to some of the setups vendors are producing for the new c63 v8 biturbo engines that are showing results. From what I understand the concern of the intake taking in hot air is less of a concern on turbo applications. Anyone have any real world experience with a setup similar to this on our engines?
Getting back on topic, while I have no firsthand experience with this exact setup, air temp both is and isn't a concern on turbocharged cars. Cooler air is always in the best interest of the car and always a concern. However, it is not always as concerning of an issue as everything else between the intake and the exhaust systems. To some extent, aftermarket intakes are more about increasing flow capability than cooling. The rub is all of this is 3 fold:
1. The intake is designed in a way that does not account for ambient air temps at all.
2. Some intakes retain heat more than the stock one (steel vs. aluminum vs. composites).
3. There are too many other airflow restrictions after the intake that prevent the full potential gains of the intake to be realized.
Dispassionately speaking, and purely my opinion due to a lack a data from the test they performed, I surmise that setup may actually lose power rather than increase it as a mod by itself and not in conjunction with anything else. So far, best bang for the buck for intake modifications is airbox spacers with regularly (not to be confused with obsessively) cleaned air filters and well cared for air ram tubes.
Intake temps pre-turbo ABSOLUTELY matters as the air from the intake goes directly to the turbo first. Depending on where you live and the season, an intake leak (not a boost leak) can affect our car's performance more noticeably than in other locations. It is in your interest to maintain as stable of intake temps as possible for the longest duration of time.
Additionally, colder intake air helps cool the turbo. Yes, the ambient heat from the exhaust side of the turbo raises the temperature of the air entering the intercooler. However, the air that goes into the turbo also has an ambient cooling effect on the the turbocharger itself helping to keep that 1200 degree "Taiwanese twister sister" from becoming a 1300 degree pile of slag.
ok....so here's my question (and im sorry if i came off combative, last night/this morning. dont drink and post, kids!!!): what effect does ambient air have on IAT? granted, i havent checked mine in the summer vs winter, but i know that the numbers raise when youre driving hard and then come down under normal driving. thats the intercooler doing its job. and the IAT is measured, not only after the turbo, but also, after the intercooler, right?
im sure we could go round and round...finding 'research' to support our hypothesis. and its all good.
14 E63, 05 E55, 03 Evo 8, 08 F250, 06 R6R, 92 Talon TSI, and instability
Originally Posted by 1MavRick
ok....so here's my question (and im sorry if i came off combative, last night/this morning. dont drink and post, kids!!!): what effect does ambient air have on IAT? granted, i havent checked mine in the summer vs winter, but i know that the numbers raise when youre driving hard and then come down under normal driving. thats the intercooler doing its job. and the IAT is measured, not only after the turbo, but also, after the intercooler, right?
im sure we could go round and round...finding 'research' to support our hypothesis. and its all good.
Sounds like somebody had some fun last night😁
Regardless of where the IAT sensor get its measurements, the temperature of the air entering the intake affects how hard the turbo works to make power. Here's a great example of how that works using meth at the intake. https://mbworld.org/forums/w212-amg/...orks-m157.html
It's a vicious circle
Yes, the IAT sensor is post intercooler/pre-throttlebody. The intercooler and the pipes also absorb and radiate heat post turbo, and cooling is affected by how quickly the turbo itself heats and cools. If it's working harder, it's generating more heat which the route is holding onto that much longer which in turn makes the engine work harder which raise egts which affects how long the turbo takes to cool. But it all starts at the intake and the air it ingests.
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