Several Coil Failures after Tune
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 158
Likes: 17
From: Sacramento, CA
2020 E63S
Several Coil Failures after Tune
Hi all,
Car -- 2014 E63S
I installed a tune about two month ago and have had three coils fail since (with no coil failures previously). My car only has 18,xxx miles on it!
#1 coil failed -- replaced with OEM coil
A couple weeks later, #8 coil failed. Replaced with OEM coil and ordered 6 more (to replace the rest, which I have yet to do).
Last night #1 coil failed AGAIN (this is a "new" OEM coil that was only in there about a month).
These coil all failed under WOT. Restarting the car seems to work, but as soon as there is about 50% load, they stop working again.
The only things different from a couple months ago are: time, mileage, and the installation of a tune.
Time: Only about 2 months
Mileage: Not much over 1,000 miles
Tune: Hmmmm (no issues with stock....coils failing about a month after installation)
I am wondering if the tune would place additional strain on the coils? It sort of makes sense....higher boost + higher loads = more demand from the coil for spark output.
On that assumption, I have NOT gaped my plugs down as suggested by some on the board. I suppose a larger gap + increase load/demand may equal too much to ask from the coils. Thoughts???? Maybe tightening the gap will make it easier on the coils??
I have new plugs ready to install (with tighter gaps) and will order the one extra coil I need to swap them all out and will probably do so this weekend (sans the extra one coil that I now don't have).
I am curious of any of you had coils fail after the installation of a tune, and if so, were you running stock plug gap or reduced?
Thanks...just trying to narrow this down.
Car -- 2014 E63S
I installed a tune about two month ago and have had three coils fail since (with no coil failures previously). My car only has 18,xxx miles on it!
#1 coil failed -- replaced with OEM coil
A couple weeks later, #8 coil failed. Replaced with OEM coil and ordered 6 more (to replace the rest, which I have yet to do).
Last night #1 coil failed AGAIN (this is a "new" OEM coil that was only in there about a month).
These coil all failed under WOT. Restarting the car seems to work, but as soon as there is about 50% load, they stop working again.
The only things different from a couple months ago are: time, mileage, and the installation of a tune.
Time: Only about 2 months
Mileage: Not much over 1,000 miles
Tune: Hmmmm (no issues with stock....coils failing about a month after installation)
I am wondering if the tune would place additional strain on the coils? It sort of makes sense....higher boost + higher loads = more demand from the coil for spark output.
On that assumption, I have NOT gaped my plugs down as suggested by some on the board. I suppose a larger gap + increase load/demand may equal too much to ask from the coils. Thoughts???? Maybe tightening the gap will make it easier on the coils??
I have new plugs ready to install (with tighter gaps) and will order the one extra coil I need to swap them all out and will probably do so this weekend (sans the extra one coil that I now don't have).
I am curious of any of you had coils fail after the installation of a tune, and if so, were you running stock plug gap or reduced?
Thanks...just trying to narrow this down.
Junior Member
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 57
Likes: 22
From: Raleigh,NC
E63S
Same thing happened to me on my X5M when I went stg2 tune. I was able to defeat the limp modes with 1) all new high performance coilpacks 2) 1 step colder plugs gapped down and the car never limped again. I've yet to explore a tune on my '14 AMG S.
Good luck
Good luck
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,399
Likes: 202
From: Bay Area, California
2015 E63s AMG, 2020 GLC 43 AMG
I have had both AMS and Eurocharged tunes on my 2015. I did have misfires on and off until I discovered that Shell gas is crap. No issues since switching to Chevron. And it's only 91. I am running 3.0 0-60 and 7.2 0-100 and 11.1 1/4 mile on the 91. I HAVE YET TO FAIL A COIL. I have logged somewhere around 15k miles on the tunes as well.
Try switching gas for a starter. It's a lot bigger deal than people realize. And how do you know that the issue is actually the coils? Are you going off trouble codes? If you read "misfire on #1 cylinder" or the like, that can definitely be gas. Not coils.
Just some thoughts
Try switching gas for a starter. It's a lot bigger deal than people realize. And how do you know that the issue is actually the coils? Are you going off trouble codes? If you read "misfire on #1 cylinder" or the like, that can definitely be gas. Not coils.
Just some thoughts
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Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 339
Likes: 35
From: Nevada
2014 E63S, 2018 GLC 300
Shell logs more knock retard than Costco gas at least from the station I pull from. I do not believe Shell would cause misfires but maybe ignition retard. I would install new (colder) plugs since it should be done anyway and gap down to roughly .024-.026 or so.
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 158
Likes: 17
From: Sacramento, CA
2020 E63S
****...never thought of fuel! LOL
Yes, i am assuming coils as I was getting the misfire code. Being as I only have 18,xxx miles, I figured it wouldn't be plugs....
To throw caution to the wind, I replaced all plugs today and gaped them to .024 I also replaced 7 coils (waiting for one more to come).
I took the car out and had the same issues....misfires in two cyls, etc.
I reinstalled the stock tune and IT RUNS FINE. lol I drove the **** out of it and it only hiccuped once under WOT (I felt it cut out for a split second once).
I was thinking fuel pressure, not fuel quality. I will run it around a bit and drain this tank, then fill up with Chevron. After that, i will reinstall the tune and see if it returns. It could be entirely possible this is due to a bag tank of gas! I never thought of that. I last filled with 76....but will try to swap to chevron and see how it goes. Thanks for the advice!
Yes, i am assuming coils as I was getting the misfire code. Being as I only have 18,xxx miles, I figured it wouldn't be plugs....
To throw caution to the wind, I replaced all plugs today and gaped them to .024 I also replaced 7 coils (waiting for one more to come).
I took the car out and had the same issues....misfires in two cyls, etc.
I reinstalled the stock tune and IT RUNS FINE. lol I drove the **** out of it and it only hiccuped once under WOT (I felt it cut out for a split second once).
I was thinking fuel pressure, not fuel quality. I will run it around a bit and drain this tank, then fill up with Chevron. After that, i will reinstall the tune and see if it returns. It could be entirely possible this is due to a bag tank of gas! I never thought of that. I last filled with 76....but will try to swap to chevron and see how it goes. Thanks for the advice!
I have had both AMS and Eurocharged tunes on my 2015. I did have misfires on and off until I discovered that Shell gas is crap. No issues since switching to Chevron. And it's only 91. I am running 3.0 0-60 and 7.2 0-100 and 11.1 1/4 mile on the 91. I HAVE YET TO FAIL A COIL. I have logged somewhere around 15k miles on the tunes as well.
Try switching gas for a starter. It's a lot bigger deal than people realize. And how do you know that the issue is actually the coils? Are you going off trouble codes? If you read "misfire on #1 cylinder" or the like, that can definitely be gas. Not coils.
Just some thoughts
Try switching gas for a starter. It's a lot bigger deal than people realize. And how do you know that the issue is actually the coils? Are you going off trouble codes? If you read "misfire on #1 cylinder" or the like, that can definitely be gas. Not coils.
Just some thoughts
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,399
Likes: 202
From: Bay Area, California
2015 E63s AMG, 2020 GLC 43 AMG
Additionally, I still have all stock coils and plugs gapped to original specs. No misfires since I left Shell. You saw the times I am running on my EC Stage II tune.
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 339
Likes: 35
From: Nevada
2014 E63S, 2018 GLC 300
I have proven that Shell, at least here in Cali, causes misfires on our tuned engines. It's not a guess. I have been planning to post an entire thread with all of my findings and how I proved it. Just have not gotten around to it yet. Peterubers and Jvakos both know about my testing in detail and agree. Unfortunately, they are in Chicago area and don't get Chevron. Again, this is not speculation. I can also tell you that Shell's Winter Blend gas here in Cali is even worse. If the OP got misfires using Shell it's no surprise AT ALL.
Additionally, I still have all stock coils and plugs gapped to original specs. No misfires since I left Shell. You saw the times I am running on my EC Stage II tune.
Additionally, I still have all stock coils and plugs gapped to original specs. No misfires since I left Shell. You saw the times I am running on my EC Stage II tune.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,399
Likes: 202
From: Bay Area, California
2015 E63s AMG, 2020 GLC 43 AMG
****...never thought of fuel! LOL
Yes, i am assuming coils as I was getting the misfire code. Being as I only have 18,xxx miles, I figured it wouldn't be plugs....
To throw caution to the wind, I replaced all plugs today and gaped them to .024 I also replaced 7 coils (waiting for one more to come).
I took the car out and had the same issues....misfires in two cyls, etc.
I reinstalled the stock tune and IT RUNS FINE. lol I drove the **** out of it and it only hiccuped once under WOT (I felt it cut out for a split second once).
I was thinking fuel pressure, not fuel quality. I will run it around a bit and drain this tank, then fill up with Chevron. After that, i will reinstall the tune and see if it returns. It could be entirely possible this is due to a bag tank of gas! I never thought of that. I last filled with 76....but will try to swap to chevron and see how it goes. Thanks for the advice!
Yes, i am assuming coils as I was getting the misfire code. Being as I only have 18,xxx miles, I figured it wouldn't be plugs....
To throw caution to the wind, I replaced all plugs today and gaped them to .024 I also replaced 7 coils (waiting for one more to come).
I took the car out and had the same issues....misfires in two cyls, etc.
I reinstalled the stock tune and IT RUNS FINE. lol I drove the **** out of it and it only hiccuped once under WOT (I felt it cut out for a split second once).
I was thinking fuel pressure, not fuel quality. I will run it around a bit and drain this tank, then fill up with Chevron. After that, i will reinstall the tune and see if it returns. It could be entirely possible this is due to a bag tank of gas! I never thought of that. I last filled with 76....but will try to swap to chevron and see how it goes. Thanks for the advice!
Good luck, and PLEASE report back with your results. I can include your data when I finally make my post on gas quality.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,399
Likes: 202
From: Bay Area, California
2015 E63s AMG, 2020 GLC 43 AMG
Two years in a row I discovered misfires using 2 different tuners, AMS and EC, right after the stations here switched to winter blend. Had I figured it out earlier I would have kept my AMS tune. Again, I will post all of this in the near future.
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 339
Likes: 35
From: Nevada
2014 E63S, 2018 GLC 300
detergents and/or their winter blend that has apx 10% less energy in it, which does go straight to octane. Do not be fooled by the octane sticker at the pump. There is a window of uncertainty on those numbers. Based on rough estimates and research on the winter blend it looks like our 91 octane may only be as high as 89.
Two years in a row I discovered misfires using 2 different tuners, AMS and EC, right after the stations here switched to winter blend. Had I figured it out earlier I would have kept my AMS tune. Again, I will post all of this in the near future.
Two years in a row I discovered misfires using 2 different tuners, AMS and EC, right after the stations here switched to winter blend. Had I figured it out earlier I would have kept my AMS tune. Again, I will post all of this in the near future.
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 450
Likes: 98
2014 E63 AMG wagon
detergents and/or their winter blend that has apx 10% less energy in it, which does go straight to octane. Do not be fooled by the octane sticker at the pump. There is a window of uncertainty on those numbers. Based on rough estimates and research on the winter blend it looks like our 91 octane may only be as high as 89.
Two years in a row I discovered misfires using 2 different tuners, AMS and EC, right after the stations here switched to winter blend. Had I figured it out earlier I would have kept my AMS tune. Again, I will post all of this in the near future.
Two years in a row I discovered misfires using 2 different tuners, AMS and EC, right after the stations here switched to winter blend. Had I figured it out earlier I would have kept my AMS tune. Again, I will post all of this in the near future.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,399
Likes: 202
From: Bay Area, California
2015 E63s AMG, 2020 GLC 43 AMG
This would be new news to me. I have not found lower octane or a lower ability to prevent pre ignition to cause an actual misfire. I could see bad gas, old gas etc. but not additives from Shell causing an actual mis. I look forward to your findings. Will you be posting logs as well?
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 339
Likes: 35
From: Nevada
2014 E63S, 2018 GLC 300
Misfires are always happening but to what extent are we talking about here? What I am suggesting is I have not experienced a lower octane (within reason, we are talking variations of brands of 91 for example) fuel causing a mis-fire so evident it can be audibly noticed or felt. Example: My GTI runs 32psi making over 250whp per liter. I can fill it up with 87 octane and drive to work and back with no issues. The knock sensors will retard timing and I will be fine provided I do not hammer on it. Now, if I were to hammer on it there is only so much ignition retard can do to save me if I am blowing volumes of air at 32 psi.
In regards to brands of fuel causing a mis, I have not personally experienced it. I have experienced the ECU pulling timing from one brand of fuel over another but not the car actually having a noticeable (meaning noticed without logs) misfire.
If you could explain what you are experiencing and how the brand of fuel is causing it maybe I'd understand the concern better.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,399
Likes: 202
From: Bay Area, California
2015 E63s AMG, 2020 GLC 43 AMG
Misfires are always happening but to what extent are we talking about here? What I am suggesting is I have not experienced a lower octane (within reason, we are talking variations of brands of 91 for example) fuel causing a mis-fire so evident it can be audibly noticed or felt. Example: My GTI runs 32psi making over 250whp per liter. I can fill it up with 87 octane and drive to work and back with no issues. The knock sensors will retard timing and I will be fine provided I do not hammer on it. Now, if I were to hammer on it there is only so much ignition retard can do to save me if I am blowing volumes of air at 32 psi.
In regards to brands of fuel causing a mis, I have not personally experienced it. I have experienced the ECU pulling timing from one brand of fuel over another but not the car actually having a noticeable (meaning noticed without logs) misfire.
If you could explain what you are experiencing and how the brand of fuel is causing it maybe I'd understand the concern better.
In regards to brands of fuel causing a mis, I have not personally experienced it. I have experienced the ECU pulling timing from one brand of fuel over another but not the car actually having a noticeable (meaning noticed without logs) misfire.
If you could explain what you are experiencing and how the brand of fuel is causing it maybe I'd understand the concern better.
Again, I have studied this quite a bit. In fact I lost my first M157 motor as a result of the hard imbalance after shutdowns. Thank goodness MB replaced the motor under warranty. There are a lot of guys on this forum that have experienced the same exact things I have. Surprised they have not chimed in yet. Likely they have higher priorities with Covid and all.
That's all for now.
Cheers
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,227
Likes: 185
From: Chicago
E63 SL55 996TT C5Z06
****...never thought of fuel! LOL
Yes, i am assuming coils as I was getting the misfire code. Being as I only have 18,xxx miles, I figured it wouldn't be plugs....
To throw caution to the wind, I replaced all plugs today and gaped them to .024 I also replaced 7 coils (waiting for one more to come).
I took the car out and had the same issues....misfires in two cyls, etc.
I reinstalled the stock tune and IT RUNS FINE. lol I drove the **** out of it and it only hiccuped once under WOT (I felt it cut out for a split second once).
I was thinking fuel pressure, not fuel quality. I will run it around a bit and drain this tank, then fill up with Chevron. After that, i will reinstall the tune and see if it returns. It could be entirely possible this is due to a bag tank of gas! I never thought of that. I last filled with 76....but will try to swap to chevron and see how it goes. Thanks for the advice!
Yes, i am assuming coils as I was getting the misfire code. Being as I only have 18,xxx miles, I figured it wouldn't be plugs....
To throw caution to the wind, I replaced all plugs today and gaped them to .024 I also replaced 7 coils (waiting for one more to come).
I took the car out and had the same issues....misfires in two cyls, etc.
I reinstalled the stock tune and IT RUNS FINE. lol I drove the **** out of it and it only hiccuped once under WOT (I felt it cut out for a split second once).
I was thinking fuel pressure, not fuel quality. I will run it around a bit and drain this tank, then fill up with Chevron. After that, i will reinstall the tune and see if it returns. It could be entirely possible this is due to a bag tank of gas! I never thought of that. I last filled with 76....but will try to swap to chevron and see how it goes. Thanks for the advice!
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 13,799
Likes: 3,228
2014 E63S; AMS 100 octane ECU dyno tune; EDOK TCU tune; BB intakes; sprintbooster
Vrodman and jvakos are correct and they saved my butt when I kept getting misfires on my AMS tune
i added a little 100 octane and all CEL and misfires went away and the car runs strong!!
i added a little 100 octane and all CEL and misfires went away and the car runs strong!!
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,481
Likes: 310
95 SL600
Hi all,
Car -- 2014 E63S
I installed a tune about two month ago and have had three coils fail since (with no coil failures previously). My car only has 18,xxx miles on it!
#1 coil failed -- replaced with OEM coil
A couple weeks later, #8 coil failed. Replaced with OEM coil and ordered 6 more (to replace the rest, which I have yet to do).
Last night #1 coil failed AGAIN (this is a "new" OEM coil that was only in there about a month).
These coil all failed under WOT. Restarting the car seems to work, but as soon as there is about 50% load, they stop working again.
The only things different from a couple months ago are: time, mileage, and the installation of a tune.
Time: Only about 2 months
Mileage: Not much over 1,000 miles
Tune: Hmmmm (no issues with stock....coils failing about a month after installation)
I am wondering if the tune would place additional strain on the coils? It sort of makes sense....higher boost + higher loads = more demand from the coil for spark output.
On that assumption, I have NOT gaped my plugs down as suggested by some on the board. I suppose a larger gap + increase load/demand may equal too much to ask from the coils. Thoughts???? Maybe tightening the gap will make it easier on the coils??
I have new plugs ready to install (with tighter gaps) and will order the one extra coil I need to swap them all out and will probably do so this weekend (sans the extra one coil that I now don't have).
I am curious of any of you had coils fail after the installation of a tune, and if so, were you running stock plug gap or reduced?
Thanks...just trying to narrow this down.
Car -- 2014 E63S
I installed a tune about two month ago and have had three coils fail since (with no coil failures previously). My car only has 18,xxx miles on it!
#1 coil failed -- replaced with OEM coil
A couple weeks later, #8 coil failed. Replaced with OEM coil and ordered 6 more (to replace the rest, which I have yet to do).
Last night #1 coil failed AGAIN (this is a "new" OEM coil that was only in there about a month).
These coil all failed under WOT. Restarting the car seems to work, but as soon as there is about 50% load, they stop working again.
The only things different from a couple months ago are: time, mileage, and the installation of a tune.
Time: Only about 2 months
Mileage: Not much over 1,000 miles
Tune: Hmmmm (no issues with stock....coils failing about a month after installation)
I am wondering if the tune would place additional strain on the coils? It sort of makes sense....higher boost + higher loads = more demand from the coil for spark output.
On that assumption, I have NOT gaped my plugs down as suggested by some on the board. I suppose a larger gap + increase load/demand may equal too much to ask from the coils. Thoughts???? Maybe tightening the gap will make it easier on the coils??
I have new plugs ready to install (with tighter gaps) and will order the one extra coil I need to swap them all out and will probably do so this weekend (sans the extra one coil that I now don't have).
I am curious of any of you had coils fail after the installation of a tune, and if so, were you running stock plug gap or reduced?
Thanks...just trying to narrow this down.
This is textbook plug gap failure. Higher boost essentially blows out the spark at higher rpm. New plugs with tighter gaps will fix your coil problem.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,399
Likes: 202
From: Bay Area, California
2015 E63s AMG, 2020 GLC 43 AMG
Member
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 132
Likes: 7
From: Chi-town
2012 E63 Tuned, 2020 Shelby GT350, 1999 S 420
coils and plugs are not the problem. For the last time, it’s gas quality/octane. Read my posts above. They are not wrong. I have original coils and plugs still from the factory. I have the Eurocharged Stage II tune. Running a 11.1 1/4 and 3.0 0-60. She is a beast. I had multiple misfires early on with the tune. I dropped Shell and went to Chevron. Have not seen a CEL or misfire in 7 months now since. Even when heat soaked. And we only get 91 here in Cali. Please explain how this can be a plug or coil issue with this factual data.
This is interesting.... I have an AMS tune and they recommend Shell to so I started using it. Every year since, I misfire bad in early spring and my mechanic tells me that it has nothing to do with the tune. I'm going to stop using Shell and see if that fixes the issue.
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 339
Likes: 35
From: Nevada
2014 E63S, 2018 GLC 300
Here is the funny part about Shell and Chevron. Chevron typically creates more knock than Shell at least in our area (NV, AZ, CA) which has just about the worst fuel in the country. I have better luck with Costco believe it or not. I have monitored knock with different fuels and landed on Costco at least in my area. Thankfully my GTI does not do anything excessive like kill a cylinder because of a bit of knock retard.
Is the fuel system capable enough to add a few gallons of E85 per tank? This would be a great way to improve the octane provided there is enough flow capability.
