priceless..

 

I am not sure I follow your recent posts @Marine 1 . I seriously consider EuroCharged Flex Fuel ECU tune for my W212 and root for our discussion to address skepticism lobbed against it. My goal is to qualify this general skepticism through specific impact to our cars. Hope to separate irrational fears. And nice try, my friend, to pass "no ill effects that we can see" as a conclusive statement although I welcome encouraging feedback.

 

I call BS. Source where increased engine wear has been tested and proven? Fuel components might be at slight risk but I'm not buying the idea of "scoring of engine components" just from a switch to ethanol.

These two links (same study) are worth reading:
https://www.sae.org/publications/tec...ontent/811199/

https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a107136.pdf

 

I'm an early adopter of the tune, so I dove in head first without the benefit of any background information.
Like yourself, maxusa, i had and still have questions. I don't have reservations however because I'm firmly in the "rewards outweigh the risks" camp. Your risk profile will differ I'm sure.
I would love to see the true impacts high concentrations of Ethanol will have on the system over time. We only have one member running full E85 for an extended period, in excess of 2 years.

Here are my thoughts, albeit without any tangible evidence to support my stance.

One of the primary reasons I run E50 vs E85 is because of my concern around ethanol's capacity for water absorption as well. I'm relying heavily on the 93 octane side of the fuel blend to provide the necessary lubricants.
Is it needed? I don't know but I'm erring on the side of caution here.
Since I've started down this road I've been introduced to a guy who has been running 100% E85 tune for almost 2 years. I have the benefit of direct communication with this individual and unfettered access to his knowledge base. He has had zero issues to date. Time will tell however but from what I've seen and experienced, and how hard he beats on his car, gives me confidence in the longevity of our platform.
The second concern I have is around the cleanliness of the E85 fuel. E85 isn't as mandated/regulated as regular gasoline and the feed stock used to provide the ~15% gas side of the equation is the dregs left over from the gasoline manufacturing process. I imagine if they have some 87 octane gas lying around that that's what will get thrown in the mix, not the 93 octane stuff. Its kind of like using filet mignon to make beef sausages.... it's not happening.
My mitigation here is to add a inline 10 micron fuel filter in the fuel system. The HPFP's have their own filter system, but I believe its 15 micron. This added level of security gives me peace of mind. I've since logged fuel pressure and fuel flow with zero issues caused by the added restriction.
Lastly, I changed my plugs yesterday after running E50 and a smattering of race gas consistently for the last 8 months. They are a good litmus test of the engines health. I used the stock plugs at stock gap with no issues. There was no evidence of heat issues, with all the plugs exhibiting the same amount of wear. If I was on a tighter budget I would have regapped the plugs and put them back in to be honest. As it was, I opted for a colder set of plugs at a tighter gap to see if there is an improvement in performance.

As I've said before... time will tell. I've faith (hopefully well placed) that the AMG engineers have overengineered these engines for service. They already are designed to accommodate 10% ethanol from the factory. I'm going on the assumption that we are operating within the safety margins of the OEM components here.

Any AMG engineers want to chime in?

I am an enthusiast with zero ties to any particular tuning house, though I do have my favorites. If I do have issues down the road rest assured I'll share them with the masses....it's also for this reason that I started two different WhatsApp Users Forum's for Ethanol and TCU users within the AMG community. Outside of MB World we have been logging the heck out of our cars. If anyone has an issue we all know about it. There is no smoke and mirrors and hand waving within that group.lol.

 

There are multiple youtube videos (engineering explained) and articles online which I saw that made mentions of these (searched: "does e85 harm your engine"). Don't misunderstand C300 - I want this tune to be as advertised, and for not only our cars, but all performance cars to benefit from the added power and response that E85 gives without the fear of causing issues to parts of the cars. I'm must merely stating things that I have found or read so the community can have a coming of the minds for myself and other interested parties to make a good an informed decision with all sides, pros and cons being addressed. Thank you for the articles as I will take a read of them, and it is precisely my attempt at looking at studies, etc that will put my mind at ease of running ethanol.

 

Both of these studies are 40 years old though... I imagine the metallurgy of our motors not to mention the quality of our fuels has improved since these studies were commissioned...
If anything, I feel these reports only add confusion to the mix..

There must be some recent studies commissioned by SAE that we can reference.
I'll have a sniff around the SAE site.

Even this one was from 2006 or shortly there after.

https://ethanolrfa.org/wp-content/up...ve_summary.pdf

 

Both reference the same study, but you're right, it is from 1980. That is why I'm even less worried about ethanol, especially a mix of ethanol and 93. E10, E15 and E20 is much more prevalent now than it was back then and if anything we have less to worry about now since the auto manufactures have to build fuel systems, engine components, etc. to accommodate this blend.

 

https://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/arti.../ra/c7ra00357a

http://www.ethanolproducer.com/artic...se-engine-wear

Two conflicting studies above. It should come as no surprise that there is a silent war between petroleum and big Ag on the issue of ethanol and studies will be funded and manipulated by both sides to support their cases. It will be impossible know what data is biased and corrupted and what is objective, so I would recommend caution either way. It’s like two people going through a divorce and trying to judge who is telling the truth - probably neither.

I’m guessing the added horsepower from an E50 or E85 tune will cause dramatically more wear and tear in the engine than the fuel itself, so while a concern it’s a little bit of a pyrrhic outcome even if correct.[/url]

 

But this is specifically where the ethanol tunes have it over the gasoline tunes IMO... the ethanol tuned cars have been seen to make equivalent horsepower from less boost and generate less heat than a comparably tuned Gasoline tune.
That in and of itself I think helps make the case for Ethanol.

 

IMO, the benefits of ethanol out weigh the drawbacks. A buddy with experience using ethanol said this:

"I did an oil analysis after 5,000 mi on E50, and I actually had less fuel dilution than previous oil analysis on pump gas. That could be because the ethanol evaporates from the oil easier? I don't know, but in my experience it does not compromise oil life.

The general rule of thumb however, is that you should run a shorter oil change interval on ethanol.

As far as cylinder wear, some people argue that if you put enough ethanol in the cylinder, it washes the oil out of the cross hatch pattern and accelerates cylinder wear. The same thing happens on pump gas if you run super rich or have a bad injector. Personally I think as long as the injectors are fine, and nothing's wrong in the tune, both of these are non issues"

 

Only time will tell if E85 safe or not on M157.
Will it be fine after long mileage ? no one knows yet.