Aferrari912

Listed my cls63 for sale recently just testing waters and have some intrest, looking at a f10 m5. How do they differentiate? Does the m5 feel more "fun"? Lighter or tighter. My brother has a c63 507 which feels very tight N handles much better. I know a mid size sedan will never compare to a small sedan buy which would Handle better and feel closer to a "sports" car. Don't want a c63 or m3etc. So my main option Is a m5. My cls63 has 750 hp but don't care about just going fast anymore but want FUN. Is it really worth selling my cls? And how is gas? My cls is getting pretty good gas around 14 l/100km 16 mpg even when driving fast probably because so much low end power. Don't want to be filling up all the time but don't mind to to much. Has same motor as my e70 x5m and that drank fuel which was annoying. Reliability will be simmilar, both have some things wrong but not anything big. Or should I just get a e60 m5 for half the price and spend the rest of the money on gas and repairing it...All opinions will be appreciated!

Anotherone

I'd keep the CLS IMO

cotmfk

The biggest differences, IMO, are the potential for manual transmission and the RWD. Those are the reasons to buy the BMW.

I always say - go drive one. See what you think. Best of luck and have fun!

Aferrari912

whats your reasoning though?

My cls is rwd (2012) so not missing out on that. And definitely not getting a manual as can't find any. So any other reasons to switch?

PeterUbers

Strong pass on the s63tu/2 timebomb engine

Aferrari912

Had a e70 x5m as mentioned above with the same engine, only thing I had to do was spark plugs at 100k km. So not worried about reliability and I think it is quite reliable. I've had more problems with my cls63

PeterUbers

ok. Good luck

kenneyd

Sounds like you got your mind made up!
My buddy at work has a f10 m5, I'm being completely honest when I say that I ~as well as him~ both prefer the AMG.
It looks better, and drives better, we've raced many times, mine has always beat him.
To each his own

The1stWright

I had a 2013 F10 M5 before the the E63S.

The M5 was a very fun car mine was actually tuned by DME. The main reason I ended up selling was the S63TU motor was the internals just aren't strong enough out of the box. I actually ended up selling after paying the car of completely after talking to a few S63TU rebuilders.

They actually told me the S63TU goes belly up so much they can't keep long blocks in stock I started to price out a engine rebuild because I knew it was only a matter of time.

Don't get me wrong they are very fun to drive, I actually preferred the driving characteristics of the F10 over the w212 and the tuning options are much less with BMW, but that motor is scary. I personally know three S63TU powered cars and they've all needed engine rebuilds.

Aferrari912

Why did they need a engine rebuild? We're they modified and pushing to much power? I'm not planning to do anything to crazy just tune and dp. But would that cause the motor to need a rebuild?

The1stWright

Two of them were stage 1 tune and DPs nothing crazy and one was bone stock.

One ate an injector (known issue with injectors on s63tu motors) the others threw rods.

PeterUbers

https://www.m5board.com/threads/s63-....602406/page-2

The1stWright

Crazy thing is I had a S62 powered e39 m5 and never had a single issue out of it.

I bought it for cheap with 112k miles and sold it with over 230k miles nothing but oil changes and a old plastic air cap that cracked once.

Wish I kept that car as e39 m5 prices are insane now, one of the best driving cars i've ever had.

PeterUbers

e39 is my dream car still!!! In love with the lines and heritage ... truly a gem ...

The1stWright

I kick myself everyday for selling it.

Decently sorted models are so expensive now I've debated on picking up an e39 540i with a 6-speed transmission.

5soko

S63tu engine had a very solid rep for bending rods and blowing themselves up with power. DCT doesn't take much long term abuse with torque aswell.

There is no comparison in terms of reliability and power handling in both the M157 and 7 MCT.

The1stWright

The DCT clutches in the F10 M5 can't handle power above 650wtq.

You'll eventually need spec clutches but BMW doesn't limit torque the way MB does with the MCT.

PeterUbers

also a gem!!! Can you add forces induction or some dinan bits? Also it would be a great S track car

The1stWright

Also I see you mentioned an E60 M5 those are legit the most scary out of all the M5s ever made in terms of reliability. (I wanted one but seen first hand a friend with a V10 M6 seize a motor up with rod bearing failure he ended up in a GTR)

The S85 sound is intoxicating but that motor flat out isn't designed to be a consumer road car engine (it's actually very similar to F1 engines)

You'll have to make sure things like rod bearings and throttle actuators have been replaced as well as the SMG pump and clutches have been done.

If I had deep pockets i'd buy one and send it off to Tory or Dinan/Carbhan to have a stroker kit installed, but that's a car that will demand a lot of attention and money.

PeterUbers

BMW v10 disaster ....

The1stWright

Love that motor personally, just really not designed to be a road car with a lot of daily commute miles (needs to be revved and unwound daily)

5soko

they dont limit it on the DCT, but they do in all the modern ZF’s and M’s.
without limits the MCT on the amg’s are able to handle more torque regardless.

Aferrari912

I remember a year and half ago when I had been able to purchase a e39 m5 with 95k km no accidents for 23k CAD... really missed on an opportunity on that and hate myself for it.

reason why I mentioned e60 M5 is because they are half the price of m5/cls63 and could spend the money saved on upkeep and preventive maintenance. But really if I own one I dont want it to be a DD, ill just keep lusting over it till I can have multiple cars.
The1stWright, the m5's that blew up what year were they? i've heard 2014+ are much much better for reliability, but nothing mentioned with rods mianly just smaller things but seems to be more reliable with a tune for some reason.
But after further research I think I'm going to keep the cls63 especially since the 2012 and 2013 models are the one in my price range and they have other gremlins. Don't really want to be fixing stuff every other week... however i'm going to test drive one soon and if it is really that much better than my cls63 maybe ill dump some more money into a car if I love the M5. Really hope the m5 is not great so I don't have to trade! So far from research one isn't far better than the other but well see.

The1stWright

One was a 2016 and the other two were 2014

Honestly nothing has changed engine wise between the years, I had a 2013 by the way.

They don't get more reliable with a tune, that's forsure. And they've been known to seize bone stock.

Mine didn't have any issues other than an AC Compressor that needed to be replaced but that's about it. If you don't want one i'd suggest not to drive one as you'll end up grabbing it.

Is your CLS tuned?

cotmfk

I had the opposite - I bought one with similar mileage and the motor grenaded after about 3k miles. :sad: A fair amount of people reached out to me saying they had grenaded their motors as well.

I put a used motor in it and sold the car to try and recoup some cost. Still lost money, of course. Oh well.