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I currently have a 2016 Chevy SS that I bought brand new (the only new car I've ever bought). It currently has 40k miles and I've taken very good care of it, it has had clear bra on the entire front end since new, the paint and interior are in very good condition, etc. but this has been the most infuriating car I have ever owned. It has been reliable but the problems it has had just don't want to be fixed or most of the light modifications I've tried to do to it that I've never had a problem with before just won't work right. For example, I've never had an issue lower a car (NOT slamming it), I wanted to lower it 3/4" and it handled terrible. Finally, I found something that works after 5 sets of springs and 3 sets of coilovers. I had the windshield replaced for the glass getting bubbles between the panes at the top, then about a year later a creaking noise started at the top, I replaced the windshield again, that windshield looked terrible, so it was replaced again. Now another year later, the noise has come back and worse than it was before! I also have a vibration/rumbling noise at speed that I can't seem to fix (replaced the rear differential, drive shaft, both axles, a wheel bearing, and the wheels). I want to like this car because it's paid for, the only new car I'll ever have, it is in great shape cosmetically (I am very **** about this), but I don't know if I can. I can deal with the windshield noise, but I think I really need the vibration fixed to keep it and I'm not sure what else to do. The car is cammed, sounds bad ***, put down 475hp to the wheels, manual transmission (although the transmission is unbelievable notchy...). So, that's the back story.
I've had a 2005 C55 in the past that I really liked, and I've always really liked Mercedes; however, the thought of owning a twin turbo V8 German car kinda scares the crap out of me. I would prefer not to be nickled and dimed to death like the SS is doing but I know German cars are usually either the best or worst car you've ever owned. I want a car I don't need to modify to enjoy, and the E63 seems like it should meet that requirement perfectly. The problem is, I am not in a position right now to spend a bunch of money right now on a newer low mileage example. I can sell or trade the SS and that's the money I can spend. It seems like the SS is worth $40k-$45k. Unfortunately, that doesn't leave me with many options. I always said if I got back into a German car, I wanted the NA 63 because that's a lot less to go wrong but there just aren't many out there. I don't know if a 10+ year old car is going to be a good idea either, especially for the cosmetics that I'm very picky about. I was hoping for a 2016 but they are not in my price range unless it has 100k miles on it, which again, I'm not sure if that's a good idea. It looks like it might have to be a 14-15 in the 75k miles range. I also considered the baby AMG's but they're newer so more expensive. I have found a few that could work but they have a lot less HP than the 63 or my SS so I don't know if I'll be ok with that. I'm not against a C63 but they're really not that much cheaper than the E and I'd really like ventilated seats. Based on the sticky, it seems the main issues are oil leaks and suspension parts, but is there anything else I missed that should deter me from owning a W212 (or W213) coming from a GM LS based product? There won't be any warranty so any work will be done by me. I did all the work on the C55 but I didn't have any major issues with that car either and it wasn't infuriating to work on like a BMW or Audi is. Hopefully, the newer cars aren't bad to work on.
I know the W212 seemed to be when they started to focus more on getting the handling competitive so that's another reason I'd like one of those since the SS handles very well.
I currently have a 2016 Chevy SS that I bought brand new (the only new car I've ever bought). It currently has 40k miles and I've taken very good care of it, it has had clear bra on the entire front end since new, the paint and interior are in very good condition, etc. but this has been the most infuriating car I have ever owned. It has been reliable but the problems it has had just don't want to be fixed or most of the light modifications I've tried to do to it that I've never had a problem with before just won't work right. For example, I've never had an issue lower a car (NOT slamming it), I wanted to lower it 3/4" and it handled terrible. Finally, I found something that works after 5 sets of springs and 3 sets of coilovers. I had the windshield replaced for the glass getting bubbles between the panes at the top, then about a year later a creaking noise started at the top, I replaced the windshield again, that windshield looked terrible, so it was replaced again. Now another year later, the noise has come back and worse than it was before! I also have a vibration/rumbling noise at speed that I can't seem to fix (replaced the rear differential, drive shaft, both axles, a wheel bearing, and the wheels). I want to like this car because it's paid for, the only new car I'll ever have, it is in great shape cosmetically (I am very **** about this), but I don't know if I can. I can deal with the windshield noise, but I think I really need the vibration fixed to keep it and I'm not sure what else to do. The car is cammed, sounds bad ***, put down 475hp to the wheels, manual transmission (although the transmission is unbelievable notchy...). So, that's the back story.
I've had a 2005 C55 in the past that I really liked, and I've always really liked Mercedes; however, the thought of owning a twin turbo V8 German car kinda scares the crap out of me. I would prefer not to be nickled and dimed to death like the SS is doing but I know German cars are usually either the best or worst car you've ever owned. I want a car I don't need to modify to enjoy, and the E63 seems like it should meet that requirement perfectly. The problem is, I am not in a position right now to spend a bunch of money right now on a newer low mileage example. I can sell or trade the SS and that's the money I can spend. It seems like the SS is worth $40k-$45k. Unfortunately, that doesn't leave me with many options. I always said if I got back into a German car, I wanted the NA 63 because that's a lot less to go wrong but there just aren't many out there. I don't know if a 10+ year old car is going to be a good idea either, especially for the cosmetics that I'm very picky about. I was hoping for a 2016 but they are not in my price range unless it has 100k miles on it, which again, I'm not sure if that's a good idea. It looks like it might have to be a 14-15 in the 75k miles range. I also considered the baby AMG's but they're newer so more expensive. I have found a few that could work but they have a lot less HP than the 63 or my SS so I don't know if I'll be ok with that. I'm not against a C63 but they're really not that much cheaper than the E and I'd really like ventilated seats. Based on the sticky, it seems the main issues are oil leaks and suspension parts, but is there anything else I missed that should deter me from owning a W212 (or W213) coming from a GM LS based product? There won't be any warranty so any work will be done by me. I did all the work on the C55 but I didn't have any major issues with that car either and it wasn't infuriating to work on like a BMW or Audi is. Hopefully, the newer cars aren't bad to work on.
I know the W212 seemed to be when they started to focus more on getting the handling competitive so that's another reason I'd like one of those since the SS handles very well.
Hello 91RS,
Keeping my Alchemy Purple #3 of 3 Chevy SS with 55K miles for now. The
2021 E63s Wagon is a much more Premium over the Holden. Its acceleration reminds me of the 650-700hp LSA blown SS cars that I've been in especially Bo799's white SS who lives near Athens. When I picked up the Wagon and drove it back the 1500-miles to NM to register it I knew instantly the AMG e63s was at another level above our VF Commodores even during the break in period. With its 4matic+ driving thru a torrential downpour in Louisiana and East Texas seemed elementary, the car drives itself with cruise control activated, you can literally floss your teeth if you like.
Owning the AMG out of warranty you have to be prepared for an exponential increase in service costs. No $59.95 oil changes at Goodwrench GM service centers. If you get an older E63s it might require new brakes if the car is not spec'd with the carbon ceramic upgrade. Brakes for the W213 might run $7K-$9K at the MB service center and might be cheaper if you find an independent Mercedes Mechanic who uses the correct parts or like you said do the work yourself but get performance parts from vendors like FCP Euro. And I thought the SS Brembo brake squeal with its copper paste and shim fix was crazy...getting a $9K bill for new AMG brakes is insane! So you gotta be prepared to pay for the premium AMG experience. Some think the performance upgrade is well worth the price of ownership. 2018-2020 pre facelift E63s models are desired for a more guttural exhaust note and harsher ride than the 2021 and final 2023 model years. A W212 E63 will be cheaper to purchase but will still rival the 2014-2017 Chevy SS in Performance and make you feel special with its luxury that Cadillac can't even come close to.
Do your research on this site to find the preowned E63s gem of your choice, find a independent AMG mechanic to maybe evaluate your E63 before its purchase, and keep your manual Toyota FJ? The 2019 BMW M850i Coupe at $60K-$70K might also be an option for your SS replacement. I briefly considered the M2 manual in 2020 before placing the wagon order three years ago but you have more wrenching Benz experience. Good luck on your Quest!
Last edited by Drone_S213; 03-08-2023 at 08:55 AM.
My family has had a few Fords and their failures tended to be either from poor design or cheap materials, or both. My guess is most domestics with the exception of Saturn or old Caddys probably were products of the accountants, not engineers, and competed by being priced lower than the Euros and Japanese. Perhaps your GM falls into that category.
My M278 and M157 were both fairly well-built with the exception of a few questionable plastic parts (turbo coolant lines). There are little nits here and there but big picture they're pretty reliable given the amount of HP they put out. Cost of ownership will be much more palatable if you can do your own maintenance. If the engine goes boom it'll be very, very expensive so most have 3rd party warranties for peace of mind.
You'll probably get a lot of biased responses here - no surprise - to go for it. But they are great cars that pull and sound amazing stock, and really rip with a tune. Just gotta be prepared to pay to play.
The c55 was one of my favorite amg's! Sounds like you put a lot of work into the SS but you've hit a wall with it, figuratively speaking.
Glad you checked the sticky! Airmatic can be pricey and recurrently problematic as well. Otherwise you nailed the major issues. Minor issues can erode your confidence in the car but they are truly minor (coolant leaks, failing turbo lines, connectors, pump failures, t-stat, etc). Steel Brakes can be done for $800-1000 all four corners, rotors and pads, if you do it yourself. Don't bother with CCB's.
get a good ppi that scopes the cylinders, compression test them as well (leak down if necessary); recognize the added risk if it was tuned (Ecu and tcu tuned), walk away from any transmission that doesn't shift right or seems wonky. Also check the alignment and read the specs before you buy the car - sometimes the geometry of these chassis' gets messed up they can't align it properly.
these are very easy to mod and get added power and to lower to improve what is already good handling for such a heavy pig of a car.
keep up on maintenance and oil changes, keep the main and auxiliary batteries healthy, change the spark plugs and coils routinely particularly if modded more frequently and you'll be a happy man.
lots on this in the sticky as well include how to safely tune and what tunes/mods are out there.
I have day dreamed of getting a beat up Caprice PPV and having it cammed and manual swapped. The LS3s sound so awesome cammed! Jelly of your SSssss!
Not much more to add aside what's already been stated by the fine gents in the room.... just "There is nothing more expensive than a cheap Mercedes" and that the ventilated seats in the W212 are nothing to write home about! lol!
Owning the AMG out of warranty you have to be prepared for an exponential increase in service costs. No $59.95 oil changes at Goodwrench GM service centers. If you get an older E63s it might require new brakes if the car is not spec'd with the carbon ceramic upgrade. Brakes for the W213 might run $7K-$9K at the MB service center and might be cheaper if you find an independent Mercedes Mechanic who uses the correct parts or like you said do the work yourself but get performance parts from vendors like FCP Euro. And I thought the SS Brembo brake squeal with its copper paste and shim fix was crazy...getting a $9K bill for new AMG brakes is insane! So you gotta be prepared to pay for the premium AMG experience. Some think the performance upgrade is well worth the price of ownership. 2018-2020 pre facelift E63s models are desired for a more guttural exhaust note and harsher ride than the 2021 and final 2023 model years. A W212 E63 will be cheaper to purchase but will still rival the 2014-2017 Chevy SS in Performance and make you feel special with its luxury that Cadillac can't even come close to.
Do your research on this site to find the preowned E63s gem of your choice, find a independent AMG mechanic to maybe evaluate your E63 before its purchase, and keep your manual Toyota FJ? The 2019 BMW M850i Coupe at $60K-$70K might also be an option for your SS replacement. I briefly considered the M2 manual in 2020 before placing the wagon order three years ago but you have more wrenching Benz experience. Good luck on your Quest!
I understand service costs could rise but I honestly don't think the maintenance will be that much more. I use Red Line oil in the SS which now costs $200 for a case of 12 qts. I will definitely be doing most of the work on the car myself, I am a very experienced GM technician and previously owned a 2005 C55 AMG with a Kleemann supercharger, but the SS has really burned me out on modifications so I'm not looking to do that again. I am not interested in carbon brakes for a daily, regular Brembos will do just fine (all of my vehicles have Brembos, including the Escalade!).
I definitely can't afford an 18-20 unless I go with a C43. Which after reading some reviews, the C43 is very intriguing other than huge difference in power between it and the SS or a C/E 63. I've found a few 17/18 C43's with mileage in the 20's that could be nearly a straight trade for the SS. My other problem is I really don't want white or black and that seriously narrows the pool of available cars. I also don't like dealing with these crappy little car lots either and that seems to be where most of the 14-16's are these days.
The c55 was one of my favorite amg's! Sounds like you put a lot of work into the SS but you've hit a wall with it, figuratively speaking.
Glad you checked the sticky! Airmatic can be pricey and recurrently problematic as well. Otherwise you nailed the major issues. Minor issues can erode your confidence in the car but they are truly minor (coolant leaks, failing turbo lines, connectors, pump failures, t-stat, etc). Steel Brakes can be done for $800-1000 all four corners, rotors and pads, if you do it yourself. Don't bother with CCB's.
get a good ppi that scopes the cylinders, compression test them as well (leak down if necessary); recognize the added risk if it was tuned (Ecu and tcu tuned), walk away from any transmission that doesn't shift right or seems wonky. Also check the alignment and read the specs before you buy the car - sometimes the geometry of these chassis' gets messed up they can't align it properly.
these are very easy to mod and get added power and to lower to improve what is already good handling for such a heavy pig of a car.
keep up on maintenance and oil changes, keep the main and auxiliary batteries healthy, change the spark plugs and coils routinely particularly if modded more frequently and you'll be a happy man.
lots on this in the sticky as well include how to safely tune and what tunes/mods are out there.
The Airmatic is the second thing I worry about on the E since I know that's spendy. The Mag Ride shocks on GM's aren’t cheap either but Rock Auto sells the OEM ones for less than the dealer can buy them for so I've saved a lot of money there. I used to have a good relationship with the wholesale parts guys at the local Benz dealer when I had my C55 but I don't know if they still work there. Even still though, the GM parts that aren't discontinued are cheaper, but I guess my hope would be that the Mercedes wouldn't be as bad. Unless they've gone cheap, I know the interior parts in my C55 held up much better where I've replaced a ton of interior parts in my Escalade.
I have day dreamed of getting a beat up Caprice PPV and having it cammed and manual swapped. The LS3s sound so awesome cammed! Jelly of your SSssss!
Not much more to add aside what's already been stated by the fine gents in the room.... just "There is nothing more expensive than a cheap Mercedes" and that the ventilated seats in the W212 are nothing to write home about! lol!
I can assure you, I'm not cheap and I'm not looking for the cheapest of the cheap, but I have a budget, which is whatever the SS is worth, and I can't go over too much or I'll never hear the end of it from my wife. I started talking about getting rid of the SS for something cheap like a Buick Regal (with the 2.0L turbo though!) and walking away with a check and now I'm talking about Mercedes worth the same as the SS so she's already not too pleased. Cheap is far from the name of the game with these two.
I can assure you, I'm not cheap and I'm not looking for the cheapest of the cheap, but I have a budget, which is whatever the SS is worth, and I can't go over too much or I'll never hear the end of it from my wife. I started talking about getting rid of the SS for something cheap like a Buick Regal (with the 2.0L turbo though!) and walking away with a check and now I'm talking about Mercedes worth the same as the SS so she's already not too pleased. Cheap is far from the name of the game with these two.
Perhaps your wife does not know much about cars.
So, maybe, she cannot tell the difference between the C43 and a Buick Regal?
If necessary, simply switching the front grille logo might just do the trick. :-D
There is actually a 2016 C450 at a dealership near my work with 88k miles they’re asking $28k which would also let me walk away with a car and a check but it has the ugly almost white looking seats and I can’t do that.
I understand service costs could rise but I honestly don't think the maintenance will be that much more. I use Red Line oil in the SS which now costs $200 for a case of 12 qts. I will definitely be doing most of the work on the car myself, I am a very experienced GM technician and previously owned a 2005 C55 AMG with a Kleemann supercharger, but the SS has really burned me out on modifications so I'm not looking to do that again. I am not interested in carbon brakes for a daily, regular Brembos will do just fine (all of my vehicles have Brembos, including the Escalade!).
I definitely can't afford an 18-20 unless I go with a C43. Which after reading some reviews, the C43 is very intriguing other than huge difference in power between it and the SS or a C/E 63. I've found a few 17/18 C43's with mileage in the 20's that could be nearly a straight trade for the SS. My other problem is I really don't want white or black and that seriously narrows the pool of available cars. I also don't like dealing with these crappy little car lots either and that seems to be where most of the 14-16's are these days.
You'll find a good one. My grey 2016 will be on the market this year with a factory warranty and looks like $50K is the median price. Just takes a little time but they eventually show up.
There is actually a 2016 C450 at a dealership near my work with 88k miles they’re asking $28k which would also let me walk away with a car and a check but it has the ugly almost white looking seats and I can’t do that.
Don't overlook the 2014-2016 CLS 550 or CLS AMG 63s...
My E63S is my favorite car in the whole world. It's a good specimen. I had factory warranty for the full 7 whatever years they allow it. It still as you say "nickel and dimed me to death" and now out of warranty even more. There's always something to make perfect whether it's mechanical, electrical, or me breaking a cupholder.
And I don't care.
I just ask my car how much money it needs today, fork it over, we both smile and carry on being happy. It's how our relationship works.
If you are trying to avoid problems this is not a bet to make lol. If you want smiles per miles and don't mind a little risk COME IN! THE WATER'S FINE!
2016 E63 Selenite Wagon (670hp/830tq on E30); 2018 E63 Selenite Wagon (700hp/650tq on 93)
knocking on wood...but in the 2+ years of owning my 2016 and the 35k miles I've put on it...other than tires, rotors/pads, coils/spark plugs, and oil/diff fluid changes...and a set of lower control arms...it's cost me nothing but an ECU tune, TCU tune, ethanol analyzer, black boost intake, set of Vossen wheels...oh wait...never mind. stupid car.
but seriously, only had a coolant reservoir go bad before the routine maintenance, some of which I chose to do prepping for tune.
But as IT guy notes...I wouldn't change a thing...best car of 15+ I've ever owned...although I'm liking the 2018 wagon I recently picked up quite a bit as well lol
My E63S is my favorite car in the whole world. It's a good specimen. I had factory warranty for the full 7 whatever years they allow it. It still as you say "nickel and dimed me to death" and now out of warranty even more.
There's always something to make perfect whether it's mechanical, electrical, or me breaking a cupholderher new pair of shoes, earrings, or a new purse.
And I don't care.
I just ask my car itwife how much money itshe needs today, fork it over, we both smile and carry on being happy. It's how our relationship works.
Had you mistyped? Could it be like the above correction? :-D
My E63S is my favorite car in the whole world. It's a good specimen. I had factory warranty for the full 7 whatever years they allow it. It still as you say "nickel and dimed me to death" and now out of warranty even more. There's always something to make perfect whether it's mechanical, electrical, or me breaking a cupholder.
And I don't care.
I just ask my car it how much money it needs today, fork it over, we both smile and carry on being happy. It's how our relationship works.
If you are trying to avoid problems this is not a bet to make lol. If you want smiles per miles and don't mind a little risk COME IN! THE WATER'S FINE!
I guess that's the thing, I think I can deal with repairs a little more than what I consider very mild modifications I've done to every car I've ever owned making the car worse. I don't slam my cars and I've never had a problem with a 3/4" drop until this car. The manual CTS-V guys can throw in a stock Corvette Z06 clutch to get rid of the dual mass flywheel, well you can't do that on an SS because the input shaft splines are shorter than every other TR6060 in the world. So, the only options are an aggressive triple disk clutch to take up that space of the dual mass flywheel. Thought about putting it back to stock more than once but then the good things about the car would be changed, too. It is definitely a love/hate relationship.
It sure doesn't look like I'm going to be able to get an E63 for what the SS is worth unless it has high mileage and there just aren't any 13-16 C63's out there for some reason. The C43 or E43 look doable and could get me a newer car with much less mileage but at the price of all the power. 360hp isn't much more than a Lacrosse makes (I know this is very apples to oranges, but I'm just saying) but is twice the price. I'm not really sure I want to get into tuning it.
As much as I’d prefer the less complex NA V8, I don’t think I’d go older than a 14. That being said, I realize that is still 9 years old and age still causes wear on all the rubber bushings and probably the air springs, too. This would need to be a car I can keep for 5-10 years ideally so in that sense I know newer would be better. I really want an E but it seems like if I drop down to the 43, the C would be the better option for handling based on all the reviews I’m seeing. I guess, at least, the V6 would get at least 5mpg better than the SS so that would be cool.
You won't be happy with a neutered 43 from what I can gather about you. Most of us here crave that special feeling of big HP pushing you back into your chair, not to mention the having all of it under control especially with the 63. You don't get that with the wannabe AMG or M Sport variants and settling for one will never scratch the itch.
You'd be better off waiting a little longer to let the economy tank and some bargains will probably start showing up.
I’d love the power, yes, but I was originally considering a Buick Regal 2.0 turbo which would have much less power but I would walk away with a check and a car. At least the C43 has the same suspension as a C63 and has AWD but it costs much more than a Regal. It doesn’t appear I can have my cake and eat it too in this case. Besides, I haven’t even sat in or driven the C43, TT C63, or TT E63. I sold my C55 in 2014 and really haven’t kept up with these cars other than drooling from afar. I’ve driven the TT 5.5L in an S63 but that a very different car from an E. I want to go look at a 16 C450 that’s local to get an idea of the C43 but haven’t had time. I tried to go drive the high mileage E63 but they were “out of the office” when I had time to go see it.
The problem with waiting for a market downturn is that my car will also be worth less. I’m not selling it beforehand. My plan is to buy a car if I find something I can pull the trigger on, finance all of it, then sell the SS, and pay off the loan.
I'll weigh in briefly with my first post on this section of the forum. I was a GM guy originally, and had a 2005 CTS-V for 11 years. In 2020 I bought my first Mercedes/euro car ever and it was a 2004 E55. I eventually sold the CTS-V and switched my garage car to the E55. My reasoning was similar to yours - I just want something that does what I want it to do from the factory and I just handle upkeep. I like this formula. That worked out so well that I bought my second Mercedes in 2021, my 07 S550 which is basically my daily driver (I like big cars and I cannot lie). Then last summer the E55 was totaled. But I fought and fought and got a good check so I am in the market again. I am also helping a friend find a fun daily driver so this post had enough familiar content that I had to post.
For me, I am leaning pretty seriously to the 14-16 E63 though I have never driven one (or any W212). I know it won't have that sharp, raw response of my E55 but it's also considerably faster so I think that's ok. I am trying to convince myself that the M157 isn't too big of a risk. I'm also trying to convince myself that I want to spend this much on a car - it would be twice what I've ever spent, and I'm talking about a higher mileage 2014 at that.
For my friend, we drove a 2017 C43 recently. I have to say that car was a ton of fun! As I said I prefer larger cars but I did find the W205 to have almost the same interior space as my E55 did. It was just a fun car. It sounded awesome and didn't even have the sport exhaust. For a daily driver that you can just enjoy, the C43 is a great option. It is NOT the same thing as a full AMG car as everyone is noting but there is a difference between a fun car that I put 5-6k miles/yr on and a full time daily. I think a high mileage E63 as a full time daily is probably not a good idea. But a C43 seems very serviceable and practical as a full time daily. So it depends what you are trying to accomplish.
I have not driven the C450 but I have this suspicion that it won't be as fun as the C43. The 9 speed is pretty snappy and responsive. AMG tweaked some other stuff for the C43 that I think adds up to more intangible satisfaction but that is just a hunch without having driven the C450. Getting a C43 under $30k is damn near impossible while it is very possible to get a C450 so there's that also.
03-08-2023, 06:18 AM
