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I have one melted piston, one completely destroyed cylinder wall, one heavily bent rod - that's all for cylinder 1.
For cylinder 2 I have a slightly bent rod, the cylinder wall seems to be okay-ish. The other side I will have a photo soon, but mechanic says it should be fine.
So - this is the summary:
1x melted piston
1x melted cylinder wall
2x bent rods
I have one melted piston, one completely destroyed cylinder wall, one heavily bent rod - that's all for cylinder 1.
For cylinder 2 I have a slightly bent rod, the cylinder wall seems to be okay-ish. The other side I will have a photo soon, but mechanic says it should be fine.
So - this is the summary:
1x melted piston
1x melted cylinder wall
2x bent rods
Bro, melted cylinder/piston is from high combustion temperature, this could result from high air intake and/or lean Afr, so check your ait and fuel pressure, bent rods could be from aggressive tune (high timing and torque at low rpm), but how did they know that you have bent rods if they did not yet disassemble the bottom yet cause bend rods is a different issue from metled piston/cylinder.
Bro, melted cylinder/piston is from high combustion temperature, this could result from high air intake and/or lean Afr, so check your ait and fuel pressure, bent rods could be from aggressive tune (high timing and torque at low rpm), but how did they know that you have bent rods if they did not yet disassemble the bottom yet cause bend rods is a different issue from metled piston/cylinder.
They can already see from the pistons that there are different gaps from left and right side, which is a typical sign of bent rods. I dont know how this could have happened as I had renntech hht module with their “regular” stage 2 tune, nothing too crazy. Also had downpipes/turbo-backs/exhaust/cai, but didn’t have hybrids or methanol, also this happened during relatively normal weather, not a humid 100+ environment. Thousands of cars with my mods worldwide and yet only a few have this issue.
It's worse than I thought. I've got 4x bent rods, 1x melted piston. What is interesting that I have almost no scoring on cylinder walls. Here are some photos, I have a lot more.
14 E63, 05 E55, 03 Evo 8, 08 F250, 06 R6R, 92 Talon TSI, and instability
What do the bottom of the cylinder heads look like?
As to causality, whether or not any stage 2 or 2+ tune is aggressive is debatable. I wouldn't rule the tune out as a potential cause quite yet. The real question is "are you willing to bet another engine on it, even if built"?
Regardless, something caused the lean condition. Alot of possibilities have been mentioned above that are pretty common.
What fuel were you running while tuned? Any E content? Seems like a weak/failed injector on cylinder 1 caused a lean condition.
Could have also just been an extreme build up of heat from too much backpressure, usually cylinder 1 and 5 are most at risk due to exhaust manifold design.
Possibly oil in harnesses, injectors, coils and ecu?
Have you checked that too?
Oil may have altered some important parameters, who knows.
Are you going to rebuild or buy a replacement engine?
Yes and with ease. BTW, cylinder walls besides one have almost no scoring at all. What you see on the photos is just dirt from oil.
Originally Posted by ImolaSix
What fuel were you running while tuned? Any E content? Seems like a weak/failed injector on cylinder 1 caused a lean condition.
Could have also just been an extreme build up of heat from too much backpressure, usually cylinder 1 and 5 are most at risk due to exhaust manifold design.
100 octane high-quality European fuel like Shell V-Power Racing 100. Absolutely no ethanol or anything like that. Bent rods are cylinder 1 and cylinder 5, just like you said, the ones that are in front.
Originally Posted by EckFe1
Possibly oil in harnesses, injectors, coils and ecu?
Have you checked that too?
Oil may have altered some important parameters, who knows.
Are you going to rebuild or buy a replacement engine?
I haven't changed coils, but plugs only, so coils might have been an issue - I haven't seen them yet, but I haven't changed them for at least a year and 20k+ miles, while having these power levels. But my mechanic told me they were not the reason for this. I am going most likely to sleeve the engine (Darton MID Sleeves) + ItalianRP (rods/pistons) + ARP L19 head studs.
Originally Posted by WANTED!!
What do the bottom of the cylinder heads look like?
As to causality, whether or not any stage 2 or 2+ tune is aggressive is debatable. I wouldn't rule the tune out as a potential cause quite yet. The real question is "are you willing to bet another engine on it, even if built"?
Regardless, something caused the lean condition. Alot of possibilities have been mentioned above that are pretty common.
Didn't look, unfortunately. My mechanic says that this is in his opinion due to the tune, which was probably was too aggressive, there was too much torque. So regarding the question - if I install forged internals that are made to handle 900+ horsepower, I don't honestly expect this to happen anymore. If I replace parts with new OEM, I am 99% sure this is going to happen again.
Your cylinder walls does not have scoring so no way you have bend rods, your issue is only in cylinder nb1 which have melted piston/wall, your issue is high temp, i think the most is high air intake, you need to check your pump then you have to use meth for stage 2 tunes for cooling, then after check for fuel pressure in second.
Your cylinder walls does not have scoring so no way you have bend rods, your issue is only in cylinder nb1 which have melted piston/wall, your issue is high temp, i think the most is high air intake, you need to check your pump then you have to use meth for stage 2 tunes for cooling, then after check for fuel pressure in second.
From what I can see two connecting rods are bent (on the cylinder 1 and on the cylinder 2).
The wall on the cylinder 2 had some scoring, although not too bad.
So, if I managed to bend one and slightly bend a second one, perhaps OEM conrods are not the way to go anyways.
I am ordering:
Darton MID Sleeves
ItalianRP Gold Line Rods
ItalianRP Platinum Line Pistons
ARP L19 bolts
+ about 200 various OEM parts that will be replaced
The most common type of octane rating worldwide is the Research Octane Number (RON). RON is determined by running the fuel in a test engine with a variable compression ratio under controlled conditions, and comparing the results with those for mixtures of iso-octane and n-heptane.[7] The compression ratio is varied during the test to challenge the fuel's antiknocking tendency, as an increase in the compression ratio will increase the chances of knocking.
Motor Octane Number (MON)
Another type of octane rating, called Motor Octane Number (MON), is determined at 900 rpm engine speed instead of the 600 rpm for RON.[2] MON testing uses a similar test engine to that used in RON testing, but with a preheated fuel mixture, higher engine speed, and variable ignition timing to further stress the fuel's knock resistance. Depending on the composition of the fuel, the MON of a modern pump gasoline will be about 8 to 12 lower than the RON,[[i]citation needed] but there is no direct link between RON and MON. See the table below.
Anti-Knock Index (AKI) or (R+M)/2
In most countries in Europe (also in Australia, Pakistan and New Zealand) the "headline" octane rating shown on the pump is the RON, but in Canada, the United States, and Mexico, the headline number is the simple mean or average of the RON and the MON, called the Anti-Knock Index (AKI), and often written on pumps as (R+M)/2.
Note RON vs AKI. I remember this confusion from back in the day. US pump Shell V-power (93 AKI) should be around 99 RON. I don't know if that means 100 RON is like 94 AKI. But it's equivalent to US 93 AKI we'll say.
<snip>...I am going most likely to sleeve the engine (Darton MID Sleeves) + ItalianRP (rods/pistons) + ARP L19 head studs.
<snip>
My mechanic says that this is in his opinion due to the tune, which was probably was too aggressive, there was too much torque. So regarding the question - if I install forged internals that are made to handle 900+ horsepower, I don't honestly expect this to happen anymore. If I replace parts with new OEM, I am 99% sure this is going to happen again.
I LOVE YOUR PLAN!
I tend to agree with your mechanic. And, it can happen again even with built parts, if, the tune is not safe and pushes too much torque down low. Personally I'd switch to a known safer tune. My tune only puts down 607HP, the tuner said he could easily get more HP out of it but then it's "on the edge". I'm not looking to break records. I just want to drive with a heavy foot. Every day!
Good luck with your build. I'm super excited for you.
Guys, do you think I should get ARP L19 head studs? They are almost 2k USD. I thought they were included in the price, but I was wrong. I am not really sure what benefits they bring besides less chance of leaking?
Guys, do you think I should get ARP L19 head studs? They are almost 2k USD. I thought they were included in the price, but I was wrong. I am not really sure what benefits they bring besides less chance of leaking?
When I was talking with ECC they said heads can lift with boost above stock levels, part of the reason for me keeping my tune tame.
I tend to agree with your mechanic. And, it can happen again even with built parts, if, the tune is not safe and pushes too much torque down low. Personally I'd switch to a known safer tune. My tune only puts down 607HP, the tuner said he could easily get more HP out of it but then it's "on the edge". I'm not looking to break records. I just want to drive with a heavy foot. Every day!
Good luck with your build. I'm super excited for you.
I looked here on the forums and with these forged internals that I have ordered, guys from Blackboost in UAE are running 1000+ bhp and 1300+ torque. I would really like to believe that my tune should be fine. By the way, you can look up my dyno graph at the top of this thread. Would you consider this tune to be really that aggressive?
I looked here on the forums and with these forged internals that I have ordered, guys from Blackboost in UAE are running 1000+ bhp and 1300+ torque. I would really like to believe that my tune should be fine. By the way, you can look up my dyno graph at the top of this thread. Would you consider this tune to be really that aggressive?
Have to log it to see if it’s aggressive - is the power from boost? Timing? There’s a lot of ways to tune. I don’t see a big torque spike so that’s a good start.
Here’s my graph - you want flat as possible.
Others here are way more expert at this then me - I’m just repeating what I’ve learned from them @Cifdig@PeterUbers@brutus_tx etc.
again your issue is melted piston/cylinder, it's not tune related it is high temp or low fuel, if you will not find what cause it you will have the same issue with upgraded internals.
05-21-2023, 06:18 PM
