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although I have M157 S63 Coupe, I have decided to create a separate thread over here, as this section is more alive than the C217 section and we share the same engine and transmission. The reason is that I believe my experience will be very valuable for those who have not yet decided whether to modify their cars or not.
Well, where to start - I have bent my connecting rods.
My car is 2015 S63 Coupe with M157 engine and I have covered precisely 31k miles with these mods (55k miles on this car right now) and here is the list of my mods: - RENNtech Stage 2 ECU Tune - this ECU tune only brings according to RENNtech - 699BHP/1050NM - Weistec TCU Tune - HMS Tuning Turbo-Backs (bridge pipes) - Downpipes with Gesi G-Sport Racing Cats - Full 3" El. Valved Exhaust incl. Mufflers - Weistec 1-Step Colder Plugs - Best 1/4 mile run with Dragy: 11.3 sec / 127 mph, 100-200 KM/H in 6.88 seconds
- Dyno attached (although my best dyno run was this): 740BHP / 1100-1150NM, I run 1.25 - 1.4 bar of boost
- I changed oil every 6k miles (about once in 9 months), I once had Liquid Molly, but mostly it was OEM AMG 5W40 oil, oil consumption up to 1 quart per 600-700 miles with spirited driving (it always had this oil consumption)
- During last three years I ocassionally got Cylinder Misfire on Cylinder 5, but since I changed spark plugs from OEM to Weistec 1-step colder it never happened again
What happened: I was driving with the speed about 100MPH on 7th gear for about an hour, then I went WOT, reached speed somewhere between 120-140MPH, it was supposed to engage 5th gear, but did not, instead, there was some mechanical noise that came from the engine, I am not sure (don't remember exactly), but maybe my revs went even beyond the redline (not exactly sure, happened very quickly), all warning lights on the dashboard came on (I've never seen anything like that before) and white/blue smoke came from the exhaust - not much, but really noticeable from the rearview mirror. Also, the oil went up through the closed oil cap - see the attached photo. When I stopped my revs were going crazy - up and down between 1800 - 500, there was a blinking check engine light, engine kept running for about 30 seconds, then shut itself down. When I briefly started it again revs went all the way up to 3000 and then just dropped to below 800, but engine kept running, there was a lot of engine vibration on idle, very rough idle. Also massive white smoke coming from the exhaust. I got it towed, didn't even try to drive on the ramp of the tow truck. My mechanic says i've bent my rods most likely.
When engine is started, there is no knocking noise, maybe I didn't scratch my cylinder walls, we will see. I will know more later, once it's fully stripped apart (next week - I will upload some photos here). Well, I guess I knew this was going to happen. I am now thinking on what to do - either repair it with OEM parts, remove my ECU/TCU tunes and sell it, or go all-in and do the italianrp rods/pistons, darton mid sleeves + hybrid turbos. It's a 2015 car with 55k miles - I am not really sure it's worth doing a hardcore engine build. I am leaning more towards repairing it with OEM parts and removing tunes. What a shame, what a car that was. For now all I have are fault codes that I have uploaded here, but that is coming from my Carly diagnostics app on my phone. I ran diagnostics immediately after this happened. At first I got only cylinder misfire 1, but when I cleared the codes and ran it again - it showed misfires on cylinders 1, 3 and 5.
I have watched hundreds of videos from Tasos on YouTube and I knew that something like this could happen, but I've never believed that it's going to happen to me, as I thought that very hot and sandy Dubai environment pushes our engines beyond their limits with these aggressive tunes and cold & dry European climate would be of no concern. Boy I was wrong. At the same time, I never really pushed my car to extremes - I did a couple of drag pulls from zero (maybe about 10-15 in its the entire existence) and in total maybe about 50-100 WOT runs on highways with speeds between 60 - 180 MPH. In Europe on unrestricted parts of autobahn it's completely normal to go with these high speeds, especially on weekends on late evening hours. During last three years a couple of cylinder misfires occurred, maybe 3-5 times on Cylinder 5.
That's all for now - of course I will keep you updated. Waiting now for what my mechanic says. If anyone would want to buy some mods off this car, let me know, I haven't decided what to do with it yet, but if I decide just to repair it, I might sell some mods, although I believe ECU/TCU is tied to my VIN, so not much to sell actually.
Thanks for documenting all this and sorry again this happened. I added this to the sticky in case you document more I'm sure it'll help people along the way with m157's.
how often were you changing plugs and coils? Every 10,000 miles? Do you know what your max boost is with the tune?
if you parted this out what would get next?
Last edited by PeterUbers; 04-26-2023 at 10:02 AM.
Sorry to hear.
What octane gas? Was it "good" gas or some weird low volume gas station? I am paranoid about my gas.
A 1/4 at a time these cars can live with a more aggressive tune. Mostly.
Driving as you do and I do, my tuner said "no way" and dialed it back. As soon as I told him "I floor it every day, all the time. I make good time and am constantly WOT between 100-240kph over, and over again..." he tuned safely for that. Cruising fast and leaning on it over and over again on a trip is not the same as an 11 second 1/4 mile run, where only the last few seconds are really hot and stressing it out.
Sorry to hear this happened to you. It's very common.
Thanks for documenting all this and sorry again this happened. I added this to the sticky in case you document more I'm sure it'll help people along the way with m157's.
how often were you changing plugs and coils? Every 10,000 miles? Do you know what your max boost is with the tune?
if you parted this out what would get next?
I always used OEM spark plugs and changed them as per regular intervals. What once happened was that ceramic protection of one of them was ripped away. I remember my mechanic told me it might have scratched cylinder wall, but he didn't remember, what cylinder it was. Other than that nothing. I've only changed my spark plugs to Weistec 1-step colder about one year ago. As for coils, only per regular intervals, I don't really remember, unfortunately when was the last time.I will document everything - my mechanic just called me, he will start stripping the engine during the weekend, so next week I should have first photos.
Regarding the max. boost - I have contacted RENNtech HQ in the US and send them my VIN and asked them what was the boost on this Stage 2 ECU tune. They answered it's anywhere between 1.25 - 1.4 bars. However, that is only with their tune. But boost is probably not dependent on exhaust, donwpipes, tcu, etc.
Sorry to hear.
What octane gas? Was it "good" gas or some weird low volume gas station? I am paranoid about my gas.
A 1/4 at a time these cars can live with a more aggressive tune. Mostly.
Driving as you do and I do, my tuner said "no way" and dialed it back. As soon as I told him "I floor it every day, all the time. I make good time and am constantly WOT between 100-240kph over, and over again..." he tuned safely for that. Cruising fast and leaning on it over and over again on a trip is not the same as an 11 second 1/4 mile run, where only the last few seconds are really hot and stressing it out.
Sorry to hear this happened to you. It's very common.
Very common as in this particular engine getting damaged due to a tune?
Sorry to hear.
What octane gas? Was it "good" gas or some weird low volume gas station? I am paranoid about my gas.
A 1/4 at a time these cars can live with a more aggressive tune. Mostly.
Driving as you do and I do, my tuner said "no way" and dialed it back. As soon as I told him "I floor it every day, all the time. I make good time and am constantly WOT between 100-240kph over, and over again..." he tuned safely for that. Cruising fast and leaning on it over and over again on a trip is not the same as an 11 second 1/4 mile run, where only the last few seconds are really hot and stressing it out.
Sorry to hear this happened to you. It's very common.
Only high-quality European 100 octane fuel. Never ever anything less than best possible fuel.
Very common as in this particular engine getting damaged due to a tune?
Clarifying - Bent rods are the common problem.
Tune or no tune IMHO the rods can handle clean power just fine. What they can't handle is an event like a misfire, lean, timing, heat, whatever. The the more aggressive the tune the more likely an "event" will bend rods. IMHO it's the events that bend them not clean power. Some tunes leave little margin for error and increase the likelihood of events.
Clarifying - Bent rods are the common problem.
Tune or no tune IMHO the rods can handle clean power just fine. What they can't handle is an event like a misfire, lean, timing, heat, whatever. The the more aggressive the tune the more likely an "event" will bend rods. IMHO it's the events that bend them not clean power. Some tunes leave little margin for error and increase the likelihood of events.
which is why I am so aggressive at a minimum about new plugs and coils and perfect race gas etc. the m157 doesn't like misfires stock or tuned
also what I should be doing is LOGGING my engine to see if there is knock/retard and why ... admittedly I'm super lazy about this and will
likely pay the price
I am now thinking on what to do - either repair it with OEM parts, remove my ECU/TCU tunes and sell it, or go all-in and do the italianrp rods/pistons, darton mid sleeves + hybrid turbos.
What are the costs of the two options, without including the hybrid turbos since that is sort of an extra?
Oh Boy.... Omar...
Sorry this happened to you. I too watch Tasos videos which has kept me from tuning my car..... esp as its a daily driver and I need no issues.
My car will be finally stripped down this week, I will keep you posted as soon as I visit the workshop and make photos. I have also sent an inquiry to ItalianRP, they have offered me Platinum and Gold Line of connecting rods and pistons. The Platinum Line rods/pistions is about 10.500 USD with ARP L19 stud bolts, the Gold Line is about 9.500 USD. But what is interesting is that they've told me that I might not need Darton Mid Sleeves if my cylinder walls have acceptable scoring and are in a good condition. They said then I can just use their rods/pistons on stock cylinder walls. What do you think of that? They've also said that for the setup of 900+ horsepower (hybrid turbo TTE 950+ from Turbo Technik Hamburg) I don't really need Platinum Line.
UPDATE: the pricing was without ARP L19 head stud bolts, these were the rods bolts that are included in the price.
14 E63, 05 E55, 03 Evo 8, 08 F250, 06 R6R, 92 Talon TSI, and instability
Originally Posted by GMBALL
My car will be finally stripped down this week, I will keep you posted as soon as I visit the workshop and make photos. I have also sent an inquiry to ItalianRP, they have offered me Platinum and Gold Line of connecting rods and pistons. The Platinum Line rods/pistions is about 10.500 USD with ARP L19 stud bolts, the Gold Line is about 9.500 USD. But what is interesting is that they've told me that I might not need Darton Mid Sleeves if my cylinder walls have acceptable scoring and are in a good condition. They said then I can just use their rods/pistons on stock cylinder walls. What do you think of that? They've also said that for the setup of 900+ horsepower (hybrid turbo TTE 950+ from Turbo Technik Hamburg) I don't really need Platinum Line.
I think that is a bold maneuver considering the cost of the pistons. Yes, "if" the scoring is light enough then in theory the rings "could" conform to the walls and vice versa. Typically, we're talking scoring you can't feel with your finger nails. Doing "drop-in" rod and piston swap on builds aren't uncommon.
However, you bent rods. Because you bent rods, the piston also wasn't sitting perfectly straight, and possibly the rod on the crank leading to uneven wear. I'd be concerned not just with scoring, but also potentially "out-of-round" cylinder(s) and crankshaft journal damage.
Old school you need to at least hone - however I would definitely defer to the experts with all these modern coatings and treatments - perhaps they are still intact and you really can just swap pistons, honing I'm guessing would F it up and it would ruin fast by removing all the high-tech treatment stuffs.
Unless I missed something, OP you stated that you think your rods are bent. Has this actually confirmed post teardown?
he said this week it will be teardown, it all assumptions, from what he described in his first post i think he need sleeves, most likely piston/cylinder melt or cracked.
he said this week it will be teardown, it all assumptions, from what he described in his first post i think he need sleeves, most likely piston/cylinder melt or cracked.
Interested to hear what the final diagnosis is - thanks for update
So they have started stripping it down. For now they've sent only two photos. The damaged plug comes from the cylinder 1. A lot of photos of inside the engine probably on Thursday/Friday. Any guesses? All I can say that damaged/burned piston on cylinder 1 is a certainty at the moment. Cylinder 1 is the one on the front left side, next to the oil cap, right behind the turbo.
I'm guessing failed/failing injector which lead to piston melt down. Or possibly one of those instances of plugs not being indexed, which in itself IMO isn't catastrophic on stock but tuned possibly?
I'm guessing failed/failing injector which lead to piston melt down. Or possibly one of those instances of plugs not being indexed, which in itself IMO isn't catastrophic on stock but tuned possibly?
BTW these are 1- step colder Weistec plugs that they sell on their website and are already gapped by them. After their installation missfire issues stopped entirely.
Detonation
Why?
Usually those front coils that are right beside the turbos are the first to go "weak"
Or
Incorrect heat range on plugs
Or
Lugging the engine/tune had too much torque down low
Or
Lean
or
Heat
The engine will be fully stripped tommorow. For now a couple of photos from today. Looking inside the right downpipe you can see a lot of oil + some metallic parts in it, probably parts of the piston. It's on the same side that where the oil went through the cap. It's probably a cylinder 1 piston. Also little bit of oil on the right turbocharger, but then the fan blade looks good, both turbochargers seem okay. More photos and a proper diagnosis in a day or two. Then I will be deciding whether Darton Mid Sleeves + Italian RP rods/pistons OR go OEM, remove the tunes and sell it. Even if I go with forged internals, I am still not going to do hybrid turbos, as it would probably negatively affect the longevity and the transmission won't handle that well.
The engine will be fully stripped tommorow. For now a couple of photos from today. Looking inside the right downpipe you can see a lot of oil + some metallic parts in it, probably parts of the piston. It's on the same side that where the oil went through the cap. It's probably a cylinder 1 piston. Also little bit of oil on the left turbocharger, but then the fan blade looks good, both turbochargers seem okay. More photos and a proper diagnosis in a day or two. Then I will be deciding whether Darton Mid Sleeves + Italian RP rods/pistions OR go OEM, remove the tunes and sell it. Even if I go with forged internals, I am still not going to do hybrid turbos, as it would probably negatively affect the longevity and the transmission won't handle that well.
04-26-2023, 05:21 AM
