WANTED!!

Read through it all. It distinctly discusses the vacuum system further in including the vacuum pump diaphram/nipple and the vacuum lines.

SpecR

Wasn’t looking at that thread specifically but I did see a bit about the vacuum pump components, will probably look into it sometime this weekend.

Chevota

I didn't read all the posts but it seems to me your wastegates are fine. If it works oem then I'd call 'em good. When your boost suddenly drops to nothing it's the programming, not wastegates, but if you trend your wastegate duty cycle it'll tell you the moment they drop out, which it looks like you did. From that chart it's classic overboost and I'd expect you'd get a code along with it?
Fyi 5% turbo boost solenoid duty cycle is the minimum allowed, so if it stays at 5% it means the ECU turned the turbos Off, which it does when it sees overboost, which I see it did, and there we go... Well, I assume, but it doesn't say PSIA or PSIG. Default is PSA
I don't an actual overboost, but rather too much boost at the wrong spot. So it could be the tune is a bit much at low rpm or could also be as simple as the bleed port filter on your turbo solenoid is dirty. You can pop it off for a look-c, maybe leave it off and see if the issue goes away. Basically, if restricted, the wastegates are slow to open and boost climbs too fast to soon. They're already slow to respond so it doesn't take much to fault out. Another is oil in the lines and/or diaphragms, because they slow wastegate movement and same result.

I had similar issues with mine, E550, M278, where the boost would fault out sometimes. It was my fault, tinkering with the tune, but there are settings on there to make it stop, which I did using HP Tuners. I've heard using HP over another tune will wipe the orig tune, but it didn't on mine. I think it has to do with how the tunes are pulled from the car, or not, by HP. Apparently some are not, cannot, be pulled from the car so it pulls an oem copy on an HP server, then you tweak it. If you load that, then you just loaded an oem file with your tweaks over the tune it had. At least that's how I understand it. But if I can do it I'd imagine you can since I believe we have the exact same ECU? At the very least your tuner could do it, because if I can they can.
Optionally, you can get another ECU and clone it to your car, then tinker away without having to worry about breaking it. This is what I did and it cost me like $200 for a junkyard ECU and ~$80 in goodies to do the clone. Cheap insurance imo.

I would for sure check the filter and for oil first. If that check out I'd want to see the tune, which I don't know if I could even if you used HP to look at it?
Well, look at those and post what you find.

Not that I think these are your issues because these cause low boost, but fyi since I learned the hard way and wished someone had told me:
The vacuum pump has a little check valve just for the turbos that tends to break and cost you vacuum, and thus boost. Very easy to access btw, behind cyl 8. Just follow the vac line. Buying a cheap chinese replacement valve is not the answer imo. It may work for oem boost, maybe, but it's simply unsat because they cheap out on everything. Even the better orange check valve is not as good as oem. Better than a broken one, and maybe try it until you find a real one, but from what I can tell you need to buy a while vac pump to get a new check valve, which is this teeny little piece of silicone that you can't make yourself and apparently costs far more than it's wt in Gold.

Voltage is very important, I discovered, the hard way. Voltage drops when under load, for some reason, and apparently this is normal. If your vacuum is not up to snuff it'll take less voltage drop to hurt you. Or, like me, my vacuum is good but I have a greater voltage drop than normal which was killing power. I've been unable to fix the voltage but I was able to change the duty cycle on the boost solenoid from 90% to 100% which made all the difference.

Chevota

Fyi, this is what an HP scanner can look like. I say "could" because you format it yourself however you want. Pretty sweet ay?

SpecR

UPDATE:

Changed out the vacuum pump piece that holds the orange nipple. When the old piece was taken out, the orange nipple did not even exist, assuming it might have been completely destroyed. Oil leaked out of the opening when it was taken off. The hose end snapped due to brittleness and I’m using a makeshift fix for now until I can get replacement, drives fine.

Interesting difference: car now drives a bit better in tuned form, very similar rolling numbers to stock (within 0.3 seconds), dig times start off well but drop off somewhere around 50-60 MPH. The loss in boost/throttle is actually very noticeable at those speeds.

I scheduled a service appointment with Mercedes to have them use my aftermarket warranty to hopefully replacing the entire vacuum pump under warranty due to leaking oil. Wish me luck, any advice is appreciated.

Chevota

The vacuum pump has oil in it so when that check valve goes it's normal for oil get get in the line feeding your turbos. Your old check valve may be in pieces in the oil filter. The pump is probably fine but you do want the good oem check valve. Not sure what check valve you used to replace it with, but my guess is a crappy one? If you found a good one we'd all like to know where

So when you lose power ~50-60 is it showing on your app that the turbos dropped out again, or just petering out? If you have the boost psi and duty cycle chart like before, plz post

PeterUbers

@Chevota great insight thank you for the feedback - added this thread to the sticky im sure it'll help others

SpecR

Uploading my tuned 1/4 mile run file, went to max of 134 MPH from a dig. I recorded a stock one too but it stopped recording right as I launched and I didn't have a chance to redo it. Let me know if the tuned one shows anything noticeable, otherwise I'll try to get a re-run sometime soon. Dragy time is below if it helps.

Dragy 1/4 Mile Tuned: 11.66 @ 117.93 MPH (same run as attached)
Dragy 1/4 Mile Stock: 11.87 @ 118.43 MPH
DA was 1765, slight incline and slight turn during run, same spot for both
Snapshot below is at peak of run

billvp218

Your timing is super low, even showing negative with pretty low boost - we can't see knock sensor data or lambda to see if rich or lean.

Add at minimum Knock Retard Cyl 1, Knock Retard Cyl 2, etc., as well as WB EQ Ratio 1 and WB EQ Ratio 5, and also turbo wastegate DC

SpecR

Recorded again with extra parameters but no Dragy data, both run files are attached and should be good to view. Let me know if you notice anything out of ordinary, haven't looked much myself yet.

Chevota

It appears you need more octane, or retard the timing. When running gas I had this same problem and it hurt power a lot, both pulling timing and boost. So I retarded the timing and I netted a good chunk of power. Lately I've been adding E85 instead.
Those neg spark timing dips can be prevented too, of you want. Mine was doing the same and it drove me nuts, so I blocked it.
Seems like the blow-off valve is bleeding more than it should? Meaning too low a psi. If it were me I'd just lock it closed while you're tinkering, or at least up the psi so it's not so annoying. There's a setting in HP to greatly reduce the psi spike when shifting or letting off, which is what I do and it's plenty, so I have zero need for a blow-off.
Your intercooler pump should kick On sooner. Even with the oem settings I never see intake temps ramp up so fast, or so high. I'd ask the tuner to lower the On temp and set the min duty cycle at like 30% or something.
You need to add more stuff to the Scanner. I'll make a list

The really good news, for me, is I'm quicker Just barely but I'll take it. Up until now I had no data from any car with similar power to compare it to. I think once you fix the octane issue that will change for me, but meanwhile I can somewhat claim bragging rights

Did you just get HP Tuners, or did you already have it? Are you going to mess with the tune via HP, or just to data log? If you mess with it I would back it up first!
It would be interesting to see if an HP tune could net the same or better times as the big $ tune. My guess is yes.

Chevota

Ok, I attached my HP Scanner settings. Both the data and colors. "Properties" are the colors. Or just use the attached PID list and find them all yourself. After a year this is what I settled on as important.
The attached file (HP Settings.rar) is a type of zip file. Any zip program should open it. Inside are my files to make the Scanner like I posted a few posts up.
"Layout" is for the overall position of the windows
"Channels" are all the goodies you're monitoring, on the left side. Your PID #'s may be different for some things, so use the attached pix to find them in yours
"Gauges" are for the gauges
"All Charts" is the charts
I also included my Math goodies, Boost PSIG, Fuel Trim Avg, Horsepower, Knock Avg, MAP PSIG, and Wheel Spin (if you have a 2WD like me it's handy)

>>> Edit; almost forgot. There is a file in there called "VCM Scanner.cfg". I believe if you replace yours with this you'll simply get all my settings and don't need to do anything else. Swapping your old one back will give you all your old settings back like it never happened.

I don't use the window you have in the upper right because I found it completely useless, and I made much better use of the space with gauges. If you have any questions about HP, feel free to ask.

SpecR

Thanks for all the advice, I added all the parameters and layouts you mentioned so I'll try to do some additional recorded runs. I've never really dug too deep into tuning to know what I'm doing, had APR with my Audi and had a custom tuner for my G35 that did all the dirty work. If you can guide me on how to adjust these things, I'd be happy to test and mention my results. I only got HPTuners for the datalogging since the tune is from RENNtech and I still have faith in their product... I'm hoping there is something simple to fix or adjust that I've just been missing all along. Fingers crossed I guess...

Chevota

I think you're screwed unless you bump octane or adjust your spark. There are no other settings or parts that will fix that, excluding Meth Injection, which is adjusting octane by adding alcohol so the ECU stops pulling power, and for the same reason is no doubt a big part why people are so happy with it. It cools and makes a denser mix, which is what they advertise, but not pulling power is a nice gain too. So Meth is an option... See your local Meth dealer for details

The question on my mind remains, can you use HP over your tune or not? I think I mentioned there is concern over trying it, but it just might be propaganda to scare people from copying an expensive tune. If so, it seems to be working because I'm unaware of any tunes copied with HP, except the one I did. The only issue I had with HP and the aftermarket tune is once I used the HP patch on the ECU, the hand held MyGenius tool I used to load my tunes would no longer cooperate :o It sees the ECU has been tampered with and simply refuses to work again. The "patch" is some mystery bit of data that needs to be added to some Mercedes ECU's before the HP Editor can be used. My guess is it the patch upsets the checksum, which My Genius sees? I hear smog checks now look at the checksum, so all the more reason to keep a backup copy of the oem file.

Not sure if you loaded your tune with MyGenius or not, but I did and this is how I managed to avoid that issue: I had the stock oem tune on the ECU, which I assume you also have? And two aftermarket tunes, one for 91 octane, one for 100 oct. First I backed up the oem ECU tune using KESS, to be sure I had that safe n sound. Once I had that copy safe and sound on several hard drives I was free to do whatever. With the oem tune on the ECU, I loaded the HP patch, then and copied that oem tune with HP. The HP copy of the tune is not the same as the KESS btw. KESS does the entire ECU, like a Ghost image of a computer hard drive. HP apparently only copies the parts it sees as most important for tuning, like a generic backup of a computer has the important data but you cannot restore a computer with it.
I then used the MyGenius to load a tune so I could copy that, and that's the moment I learned it won't work after using HP. Thank (insert your gods name here) I backed up with KESS first! So I reloaded the ECU with the KESS backup, then tried MyGenius again and it worked. I loaded a tune into the ECU, then loaded the HP patch again and copied the tune with HP. Repeat for the last tune, and done.
Yeah, that took a while... Plus I had to learn how to make a backup of the ECU using KESS, which is easy now that I know, but it was not when I didn't because there was very little information about it, and what I did find was cryptic. Plus my ECU was not on the list of ECU's KESS or K-TAG works on.
Lucky for you, we have the same ECU and I'm happy to share all I learned. I even made instructions with pictures and arrows to help others. Fyi do not follow the instructions that come with a KESS or K-TAG, or from the website, because their version is substantially more difficult and risky.

Also note; the patch is known to, on occasion, brick the ECU. I know a guy online that bricked his. He had a CLA 45, with a different and more finicky ECU, which may be why? I'm unaware of our ECU having that issue. I've loaded the patch on two ECU's (ours) ~ five times. I mentioned I also have a backup ECU, which I also tinkered with, so at least five times. Bricking, while unlikely, is yet another reason to backup your ECU before tinkering.

Note; as mentioned, HP only sees the more important things in your ECU. Rumor has it that places like Renntech will also adjust some settings HP can't see. Probably true, but HP does see the most important things and I can tune mine to squeeze the max possible power with it, so what more do I really need? Sure there's things I'd like to do but can't with HP, but they don't relate to power. No ideal how important these mystery settings are, but I wonder if you had the Rentech on it, used HP to copy and made changes and loaded it back on, will all the mystery settings remain intact and only your changes are different? There is a guy online that says he bought a 550 that the seller claims has a Renntech tune, and he used HP on it no problem. I'd assume it would simply make the changes you do via HP and nothing more, but I have no way to confirm it.

If you have Renntech adjust your spark timing I doubt they will be interested in truly dialing it in. It took me a long time to get mine dialed in on pump gas, which is just enough retard at each point to keep the ECU from pulling timing, or power. My guess is they will simply retard the entire map by 3 deg or more and call it good, which be a bummer but also means it'll run hotter. I see you're on the hot side already, imo. HP settings can cool it down fyi. I never see the temps you were hitting.
Fyi the pix below is what I retarded compared to oem. This is one neat feature of HP, you can compare two tunes and it'll show you the difference like this. Super handy...

Using E85 to eliminate my ping/retard took about 30% Ethanol. Super easy to do, and like me, you'll see the power difference instantly. Keep in mind the Ethanol is only netting a little bit of the power, almost all the gains come from the ECU not pulling power. Your retard looks pretty much like mine does on Gas, maybe a little less, so maybe 20-25% would work for you? Only one way to find out. That's % includes the 10% already in the gas btw, so you have to do the math to figure it out. Well, assuming your gas has 10% in it, but I think it's standard across the US? I made an Excel sheet to do the math it if you go that route, but 30% for me is ~5gal E85 and 12.5gal Gas for my 17.5gal tank.
The fuel system will have a limit of how much Ethanol it can handle. Basically it can supply xx% fuel over and above stock needs, so when you tune you need more, and Ethanol needs more. Who knows how much room you have but mine can take 50% Eth no problem with the tune maxed out. No tune and I'd imagine it could run pure E85. I dumped 20% in right off the bat. If it had leaned out under load I'd simply let off the gas and go fill up again.
There is also concern about Ethanol hurting the fuel system. Not sure if it hurts our cars or not, but it certainly can damage many cars. How much Eth it takes to hurt a car, or our cars, and over how much time, I don't know. My guess is 25% won't hurt it, but what do I know. So as a precaution I've been adding Lucas Fuel Injector Cleaner, which is probably just Mineral Oil with some solvent added. I add 4oz to a fill, which is usually 14gal.

Your eng is virtually identical to mine, so imo it would be easy to tinker with. Plus, I think almost all people who use HP on a Benz are using it on turbo engines, and I think most are 63's and second place is likely the 550's, like mine. So while HP tuning info on a Benz is scarce, I think you have the most popular car for it. And, if all fails, which I doubt, there are professional tuners that use HP, and will hook you up for a fee. How much I don't have a clue because I want to do it myself, but I can't imagine it's very expensive. They no doubt have a file ready to go and email it to you. Unlike the typical paid for tunes, you can copy it to another 63, or even copy the gist of it over to a 550 if you want. I've used some 63 settings but I like my settings better.

kevm14

Uh the intercooler pump is not PWM.

SpecR

If this means anything, I’ve been getting these wave-like vibrations throughout the car that seem inconsistent. It will happen the worst on cold start idles but does carry out along the day and seems like it is getting worse over time. They get better when I put it in drive, park at idle is the most noticeable. There are also random RPM spikes when I start it up, as if it’s about to stall out and then wakes itself up, goes to about 400 then rises to 1500ish and back to normal 650-700 idle. Mercedes thinks it’s the mounts because they noticed they are not OEM, previous owner must have done cheaper ones or something. I have a hunch it’s not the mounts, but possibly injectors, which now makes me think the fuel-related issues would make sense.

Is there any way to test/diagnose the injectors without pulling them?

billvp218

This tuned run looked different than the previous, in that there weren't prolonged periods of negative timing. The stock run had some small knock which slightly reduced timing, but the tuned run didn't really. Since the tuned run likely did before (assuming that's why the timing was retarded to negative), I'm not sure what can cause that, whether poor quality gas or something else. The ambient temp wasn't crazy. The IATs are kind of high, but my car hit well above that without retarding timing.

The main thing is that both the stock and tuned run parameters look much closer than I'd expect. I'm not a tuner, and not claiming to be an expert, but the 3 things I normally look at are boost pressure, timing, and air-fuel ratio. The boost pressure and timing don't look increased, and the air-fuel ratio is just leaned out a little (still safe). From these, I would guess that you see pretty much no change in the tuned runs vs. stock. The random knock that shows up occasionally could make one or the other slightly better at any given time. Can you ask Renntech what boost and timing you should expect? The tunes I've had from Eurocharged and ECC show obvious differences in boost & timing.

I believe you'd previously mentioned that Renntech proposed that the BOV/BPV was installed incorrectly and could be leaking. Were you able to test without that component? The turbo wastegate duty cycle is pretty much identical between stock & tuned, and I would guess that if the tune was making the turbo push out extra boost, even if it was then leaking out the BPV, the WGDC would be higher. Perhaps there is some mitigating factor, but all the above would make me assume that the tune is just really weak and not beneficial - certainly not worth Renntech $$$.

SpecR

There's no way the tune is meant to be the way it is. I think the RENNtech tune's boost has been posted online, something like 14.5 psi adjusted to 18.0 psi off the top of my head but could be way off. The BOV was tested while closed and made no difference. I attached two more runs, this time both stock and tuned ran like ****, you can see the boost plummet even on stock. I saw and felt it live, but I'm working right now and can't look any closer. If anybody notices something between the two new files I attached before I get home tonight, let me know. I have tried two different gas stations already, Cumberland and Sunoco, normally go to same Sunoco, many of my car friends use same Sunoco, really doubt it's the gas quality and I have no reasonable way to justify getting E85 or mixes at this point.

PeterUbers

I think you have a hardware issue - you're taking the car in to have it inspected?

SpecR

Mercedes dealer near me took a look and found nothing wrong with the car, but I scheduled an appointment for next Thursday to get the vacuum pump looked at since the hose snapped and I still have the make-shift fix on it for now. I can use it as another excuse to diagnose but they are probably getting annoyed with me at this point since I've had them check a lot of random stuff. Also hoping I can sniff something out ahead of time to avoid direct diagnostic charges like before. My oil was a quart low last week after 8k miles on service, so 70k is coming up at 71k for me. Sounds about right for these cars to eat some oil but not sure if that's a short time for these E63's. Injectors have been crossing my mind a lot lately due to the other things like the vibration and random start-up revs. Any chance my ECU might be shot/bugged? Doubt it, but hard to think of anything else that could cause issue when switching between the tunes that isn't popping up. Pretty sure the car is an October 2015 build if it means anything. Bought it with 53k and now has 69k in about 11 months, all service is up to date throught Mercedes dealer. Praying for some type of lead on what is going on but everything seems to lead to nowhere.

SpecR

Compared the most recent runs and while there isn't much to decipher, main things I noticed were the IAT being high in the tuned run (topped out at 170 F), but could be meaningless since the stock run actually only reached 90-100 MPH and the boost was clearly screwy at around 3-4 psi during final gear in the pull. I'm obviously not a tuner at all, but I'm concerned with trying to edit my own tune to adjust for the timing that clearly seems off. Isn't the point of getting an OTS tune like RENNtech's not to have to do all this? It must be something hardware related like @PeterUbers said but there is no clear signs of what it is yet, at least not in that I've noticed or anybody has confidently mentioned (besides the ignition coils, which sucks because I thought that would be the solution). My stock form has occasional issues as well as you can tell from the run, but is more consistent than the tuned form.

Since I'll be in the Mercedes dealer next Thursday, does anyone have any recommendations on what to ask them to look at? They are uneasy about the tune for obvious reasons but my stock performance has inconsistencies too so they should have a valid reason to check something that might not be working properly.

PekkaH

Hi. You say that your IAT was 170F ( 76,6c) That's really really high. Are you sure that your IC pump is running at all? Have you check your IC reservoir that you have fluid on your system? That temp will pull timing for sure.

SpecR

It does seem high but the stock performance was only at 120-130 F at 3-4 psi, there’s something else going on that’s causing issues. I was flooring it in stock form and it was going from 11ish psi down to 3-4 psi during the pull in the data-log. I can check the IC pump/reservoir but it was performing poorly even at lower temperatures and in stock, not just tuned.

PekkaH

Yes I'm just guessing what can be the issue. There can be many issues going on and for some reason those intake temps are really high. It's good to check that reservoir level and is IC pump running. You can do the pump mod if you haven't done it. After that you can see for sure is the pump running strong. Pop the hood open and see if IC fluid is running in the reservoir after pump mod.

If intake temps rise too much car will pull timing, close throttle blade, lower boost for example.

SpecR

Reservoir level looks good in both engine and intercooler. Tuned run showed good boost and seemingly proper wastegate function, yet negative timing. Stock run showed low boost and poor wastegate function, yet seemingly normal timing.

I appreciate all the advice and suggestions. This has been way more of a pain in the *** than I ever could have imagined…