E63 s drivetrain failure points
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2011 E550 4Matic
E63 s drivetrain failure points
I currently drive a modified 2016 Audi S6 with the 4.0TT making just north of 600hp crank and 670lb-ft. I'm debating getting into a w212 E63 (I previously drove and loved a 2011 E550), but my main concern is the ability of the drivetrain to hold up to tuning. I just had to replace a differential in the S6, and if I buy a w212 I would plan on mild mods, likely ECU/TCU and maybe catted downpipes, and I'd like to know where the weak spots are in the drive train. The S6 is a tremendous car, but I've never owned an AMG and think it might be time to move up to 5.5L 
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Out Of Control!!
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2014 E63S; AMS 100 octane ECU dyno tune; EDOK TCU tune; BB intakes; sprintbooster
Output shaft is easily your first weak point after you engine and tcu tune ... then trans. The output shaft goes usually after 100-200 hard launches ... otherwise it can go the distance. The tcu tune really was the significant platform change that revealed this next weak link in the drivetrain.
Check out the sticky and this thread in particular from the tuning section of the sticky:
sticky (lots of tcu tune discussion):
https://mbworld.org/forums/w212-amg/...2-amg-e63.html
thread:
https://mbworld.org/forums/w212-amg/...e-no-joke.html
Check out the sticky and this thread in particular from the tuning section of the sticky:
sticky (lots of tcu tune discussion):
https://mbworld.org/forums/w212-amg/...2-amg-e63.html
thread:
https://mbworld.org/forums/w212-amg/...e-no-joke.html
Last edited by PeterUbers; Dec 2, 2023 at 11:10 AM.
Member
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From: Toronto
2014 E63s AMG
The 5.5 is not as good of a tuning platform as the 4.0 Audi V8 IMO. Bigger displacement but choked out with small turbos with power falling off hard after 6k rpm and not as strong in stock form as the Audi 4.0. Tuning will just get you a bunch of torque low-mid and then tapering off hard towards redline. Building the engine and upgrading the turbos is $$$$ because limited aftermarket support compared to other platforms.
The trans is decently strong but feels a bit outdated compared to the 8HP (or even the DCT in your S6). The MCT kind of feels like a mix between a TC automatic and a DCT. Downshifts feel crisper than the 8HP but not as quick and smooth as the 8HP overall. As Peter said the output shaft has been shown to twist or break during hard launches on cars with tcu torque limiters raised and big torque tunes.
The 5.5 does sound incredible.
Now that the turbo oil screens are covered under extended warranty on the RS7 its an incredible platform to go fast.
The trans is decently strong but feels a bit outdated compared to the 8HP (or even the DCT in your S6). The MCT kind of feels like a mix between a TC automatic and a DCT. Downshifts feel crisper than the 8HP but not as quick and smooth as the 8HP overall. As Peter said the output shaft has been shown to twist or break during hard launches on cars with tcu torque limiters raised and big torque tunes.
The 5.5 does sound incredible.
Now that the turbo oil screens are covered under extended warranty on the RS7 its an incredible platform to go fast.
Thread Starter
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2011 E550 4Matic
thanks for the reply and insight. The 4.0T platform has been a blast. it gets very, very hot so I'm currently limited by needing to run E or use a methanol system to push any more power. And frankly, it doesnt need any more power.
I'm looking for peace of mind, and assuming that the E63 with ~40-60k miles might give me 3 years of fun, relatively stress-free motoring, or at least less stressful than a higher mileage Audi.
And I mostly just want something new...
I'm looking for peace of mind, and assuming that the E63 with ~40-60k miles might give me 3 years of fun, relatively stress-free motoring, or at least less stressful than a higher mileage Audi.
And I mostly just want something new...
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From: Northern VA
2016 E63s
thanks for the reply and insight. The 4.0T platform has been a blast. it gets very, very hot so I'm currently limited by needing to run E or use a methanol system to push any more power. And frankly, it doesnt need any more power.
I'm looking for peace of mind, and assuming that the E63 with ~40-60k miles might give me 3 years of fun, relatively stress-free motoring, or at least less stressful than a higher mileage Audi.
And I mostly just want something new...
I'm looking for peace of mind, and assuming that the E63 with ~40-60k miles might give me 3 years of fun, relatively stress-free motoring, or at least less stressful than a higher mileage Audi.
And I mostly just want something new...
From what I've seen on my own dyno run the car does drop off after 5K but you're still sufficiently powered to pull on lower displacement cars, even tuned ones in my experience. The TCU tune seems to be the only reason for the output shaft failures and only in lower gears - if you're just running the car around town an ECU tune and DPs will be plenty.
I've always viewed the TCU tune as a high risk, medium return deal. You do it if you need to get the absolute last 5% out of the platform but are also prepared to stroke a big check. I just think you can achieve your goals elsewhere in the power band without shocking the driveline.
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04 E55 AMG (totaled), 07 S550 4Matic, 14 E63S
I've always viewed the TCU tune as a high risk, medium return deal. You do it if you need to get the absolute last 5% out of the platform but are also prepared to stroke a big check. I just think you can achieve your goals elsewhere in the power band without shocking the driveline.
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 415
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From: Northern VA
2016 E63s
That's interesting. I had the opposite view. Totally stock ECU, but stage 1 TCU might really improve the experience. The torque limited lower gear stuff really annoys me, even stock. It seems like it's leaving so much on the table. And I was hoping that on street tires, on the street, I'm not going to hurt anything (especially if I just plan to never do a brake boost or race start).
But I think you're right based on other members' experiences the aggressive brake boosting is what seems to snap the output shaft.
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Member
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From: Toronto
2014 E63s AMG
At these power levels the trans is crucial and the BMW and Audi using the 8HP is a huge advantage compared to the 9 Speed MCT.
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From: unbegrenzt
2017 GLE350 4MATIC
I currently drive a modified 2016 Audi S6 with the 4.0TT making just north of 600hp crank and 670lb-ft. I'm debating getting into a w212 E63 (I previously drove and loved a 2011 E550), but my main concern is the ability of the drivetrain to hold up to tuning. I just had to replace a differential in the S6, and if I buy a w212 I would plan on mild mods, likely ECU/TCU and maybe catted downpipes, and I'd like to know where the weak spots are in the drive train. The S6 is a tremendous car, but I've never owned an AMG and think it might be time to move up to 5.5L .
.
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From: Fleriduh
W212 E63S Wagon - GSL580 - E63 - E350 - C300
VAG EA825 -
Sure. But, then you are stuck with an Audi. I am biased...I have owned MANY MB, BMW and Audi. The S8 and S3 were seriously the worst cars I have ever owned stock or tuned.
My E46 M3, to this day, while under power for today is a great car. Every MB I have (and had) have been rock solid and lived up to my expectations (but for seat lowers). Audi...never again.
Sure. But, then you are stuck with an Audi. I am biased...I have owned MANY MB, BMW and Audi. The S8 and S3 were seriously the worst cars I have ever owned stock or tuned.
My E46 M3, to this day, while under power for today is a great car. Every MB I have (and had) have been rock solid and lived up to my expectations (but for seat lowers). Audi...never again.
