900hp DME/Pureturbo only runs 10.8
08-04-2018, 04:39 PM
#26
Super Member
I’m just laughing at how tuners claim their cars have useless amount of Hp and cars are literally “dead”.
Last edited by dav461; 08-04-2018 at 04:46 PM.
08-05-2018, 08:42 AM
#27
Super Member
I think you’re misplacing your blame and putting it on MB instead of the tuners of MB. MB makes these cars and doesn’t care to cater towards tuning or modifying it. If anything, it hurts them because people with older model cars that have modified them have less of an incentive to upgrade since their older, modified car already makes more power.
The tuning on this platform and most of the newer MB/AMG cars hasn’t been as good as it used to be - whether it’s lack of focus on these cars, not enough resources, limited hardware, or not being able to handle the security parameters around tuning.
I, too, have been AMG loyal, but I realized I’m a car enthusiast first, so I will go wherever the enthusiasm (tuning capability) is greater.
The tuning on this platform and most of the newer MB/AMG cars hasn’t been as good as it used to be - whether it’s lack of focus on these cars, not enough resources, limited hardware, or not being able to handle the security parameters around tuning.
I, too, have been AMG loyal, but I realized I’m a car enthusiast first, so I will go wherever the enthusiasm (tuning capability) is greater.
08-05-2018, 11:40 AM
#28
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AMG GTC Roadster, E63s Ed.1, M8 Comp. Coupe
Love AMG's and get the desire to tune. What I don't get it the complaining about 1/4 miles and the notion that AMG somehow lost their way. I don't recall that that AMG ever cared for that. This is not even a something that Germans do or test for. I get the comfort part and agree that AMG could do a much better job on their suspension. In order for Airmatic to do that ABC does with ease, they are turning up the pressure which makes the car too stiff.
08-05-2018, 11:59 AM
#29
Super Member
I think you’re misplacing your blame and putting it on MB instead of the tuners of MB. MB makes these cars and doesn’t care to cater towards tuning or modifying it. If anything, it hurts them because people with older model cars that have modified them have less of an incentive to upgrade since their older, modified car already makes more power.
The tuning on this platform and most of the newer MB/AMG cars hasn’t been as good as it used to be - whether it’s lack of focus on these cars, not enough resources, limited hardware, or not being able to handle the security parameters around tuning.
I, too, have been AMG loyal, but I realized I’m a car enthusiast first, so I will go wherever the enthusiasm (tuning capability) is greater.
The tuning on this platform and most of the newer MB/AMG cars hasn’t been as good as it used to be - whether it’s lack of focus on these cars, not enough resources, limited hardware, or not being able to handle the security parameters around tuning.
I, too, have been AMG loyal, but I realized I’m a car enthusiast first, so I will go wherever the enthusiasm (tuning capability) is greater.
08-05-2018, 12:17 PM
#32
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Thread Starter
Love AMG's and get the desire to tune. What I don't get it the complaining about 1/4 miles and the notion that AMG somehow lost their way. I don't recall that that AMG ever cared for that. This is not even a something that Germans do or test for. I get the comfort part and agree that AMG could do a much better job on their suspension. In order for Airmatic to do that ABC does with ease, they are turning up the pressure which makes the car too stiff.
08-05-2018, 12:44 PM
#33
Super Member
08-05-2018, 12:49 PM
#34
08-05-2018, 02:14 PM
#35
Super Member
08-05-2018, 02:59 PM
#37
Senior Member
- lowered its 60ft from 1.90s to 1.62s
- lowered the 0-60mph from 3.2s to 2.85s
- lowered the 1/8 mile from 7.25s to 6.92s
- I don't yet have decent 1/4 mile before and after data since the (private.. lol) road I used is too short and requires I brake too early. That said, it was lowered from 11.36s to 10.9s
- that figure, however, isn't representative of the car + EC tune on a track...
Last edited by limeypride; 08-05-2018 at 03:07 PM.
08-05-2018, 03:10 PM
#38
Rubbish. I think that blanket statements about most anything are all too often flawed.. and that applies here, too. Sure, some ECU tunes may well be a waste of money, however, the EuroCharged tune on my E63 yielded tangible, repeatable performance gains relative to the same measurements taken on the same Dragy before the tune:
- lowered its 60ft from 1.90s to 1.62s
- lowered the 0-60mph from 3.2s to 2.85s
- lowered the 1/8 mile from 7.25s to 6.92s
- I don't yet have decent 1/4 mile before and after data since the (private.. lol) road I used is too short and requires I brake too early. That said, it was lowered from 11.36s to 10.9s
- that figure, however, isn't representative of the car + EC tune on a track...
08-05-2018, 03:13 PM
#39
Rubbish. I think that blanket statements about most anything are all too often flawed.. and that applies here, too. Sure, some ECU tunes may well be a waste of money, however, the EuroCharged tune on my E63 yielded tangible, repeatable performance gains relative to the same measurements taken on the same Dragy before the tune:
- lowered its 60ft from 1.90s to 1.62s
- lowered the 0-60mph from 3.2s to 2.85s
- lowered the 1/8 mile from 7.25s to 6.92s
- I don't yet have decent 1/4 mile before and after data since the (private.. lol) road I used is too short and requires I brake too early. That said, it was lowered from 11.36s to 10.9s
- that figure, however, isn't representative of the car + EC tune on a track...
I certainly would prefer local people who do custom but I’m not 100% against remote, out of box tuning.
Il’ll have a look at your tuning option that you took.
Thanks
08-05-2018, 03:17 PM
#40
Thanks, that’s actually been really helpful!
08-05-2018, 04:18 PM
#41
Senior Member
08-05-2018, 04:25 PM
#42
Senior Member
Give it a shot, if your end result is anything like mine, you'll be smiling big.
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08-06-2018, 05:19 AM
#43
Super Member
- I don't yet have decent 1/4 mile before and after data since the (private.. lol) road I used is too short and requires I brake too early. That said, it was lowered from 11.36s to 10.9s
- that figure, however, isn't representative of the car + EC tune on a track...
corrections are not made on dyno, as car is not always driven there. It’s better to make it on road by looking at logs ( boost, timings, temps and etc on 3/4/5 gears) through any good software that collects logs.
You can do it yourself, and then send file to EC together with your ecu for further adjustments.
btw, limey what month and year of production is your car, do you have sunroof? Do you remember if your dealer has updated any software in your car after EC did ecu remap?
Last edited by dav461; 08-06-2018 at 05:24 AM.
08-06-2018, 10:29 AM
#44
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2020 Audi R8 V10, 2016 AMG GTS, 2018 E63S Edition 1, 2018 Porsche GTS Cab, 2012 C63 BS
Good fruitful convos here. After having every AMG sedan from W210, 211, 212, and now the 213- this is the best of the lot and of course it should be with technology and engineering. Im not a big tuner (I just do a basic bench tune) so this is all inconsequential to me but where the 213 shines beyond the other chassis' is in the handling prowess and road feel. Its years better in its driveability over the previous iteration and since I dont care for bigger turbos or 10.5 cars Im happy; and lets face it, we are the minority as the vast majority of the E63S owners dont even mod their cars let alone come here and get mad that it cant deliver under heavy mods. Its the better overall car out of the box as it should be but I do have a decent enough memory to compare what I owned in the past to what was out there then thus my comments.
08-06-2018, 11:30 AM
#45
Senior Member
Limey, your dragy graph shows constant speed acceleration without any early breaks 🤔
corrections are not made on dyno, as car is not always driven there. It’s better to make it on road by looking at logs ( boost, timings, temps and etc on 3/4/5 gears) through any good software that collects logs.
You can do it yourself, and then send file to EC together with your ecu for further adjustments.
btw, limey what month and year of production is your car, do you have sunroof? Do you remember if your dealer has updated any software in your car after EC did ecu remap?
I reviewed the 1/4 graph and the best I can say is I know for sure that I let up early due to impending death, somewhere just before the 1000ft mark I'd guess.
Corrections are most definitely made on the dyno--sure, that's not perfect but it's a very commonplace practice depending on tune vendor. In contrast, Burger products tend to bias logs for customer cars but even they use dynos to measure subtle changes.
No ECU updates post-tune. I'm not sure on the build date--I'll check later.
08-06-2018, 09:41 PM
#46
Senior Member
The horsepower level is grossly exaggerated. The false advertising is a big problem on our platform.
One thing for the owner would be to try higher octane fuel, see if there is some power that was left on the table.
08-06-2018, 10:34 PM
#47
Member
Crucify me if you will, but I believe, the problem is not an AMG problem, it’s a regulation problem. In the past all the big guys could just throw more displacement out there and with a mild tune upped the next guy. This left a lot of gain on the table, and retained reliability. Gone are the ways of the NA V10/12. Now to meet EPA mandated MPG they have to make more with less. Unfortunately nothing replaces displacement and the ceiling gets closer and closer to factory specs. It’s pretty amazing the factory HP/TQ they are getting out of 4.0L that actually run as 2.0L’s when cruising. At some point, without sacrificing reliability, you just run out of detonation power due to cylinder volume.
Last edited by kcjonz; 08-07-2018 at 12:29 AM.
08-07-2018, 01:15 AM
#48
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2014 E63s amg 4matic, 2009 C63, 2006 E55 AMG , 2001.5 AUDI S4 stg 3+ w/meth
Crucify me if you will, but I believe, the problem is not an AMG problem, it’s a regulation problem. In the past all the big guys could just throw more displacement out there and with a mild tune upped the next guy. This left a lot of gain on the table, and retained reliability. Gone are the ways of the NA V10/12. Now to meet EPA mandated MPG they have to make more with less. Unfortunately nothing replaces displacement and the ceiling gets closer and closer to factory specs. It’s pretty amazing the factory HP/TQ they are getting out of 4.0L that actually run as 2.0L’s when cruising. At some point, without sacrificing reliability, you just run out of detonation power due to cylinder volume.
08-07-2018, 09:12 AM
#49
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2021 Mercedes C63s AMG Coupe
Also as far as I know, these new ECUs have atleast 3 separate torque limiters which is calculated from the manifold airflow. If they are not adjusted properly the throttle might close or boost will drop in higher gears depending on the which limiter was not adjusted properly.
Was the tranny reinforced for this car? A TCU update would go far with this car too. In the new generations of MB, it is the tranny that is the bottle neck.
Last edited by munis; 08-07-2018 at 09:26 AM.
08-07-2018, 09:23 AM
#50
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you are absolutely right. tuners can’t offer good remap yet. What I have heard from GAD is that damos files are still blocked, tuners have to do all adjustments in “blind” mode and room for it very limited. While M5 f90 goes 10.37 on piggy back box with upper decatted pipes, stage3 E63 can’t get mid 10s. I think they need time to find a solution for it. For now, it’s definitely waste of money (stage2 onwards)
